Cropping

[jackamus]

A are a number of objects that have been converted to curves and grouped.

B is the group cropped.

C Is the group ungrouped after cropping.

What I would like to do is to individually edit some of the objects from the cropped size to a new size using the curve nodes. As you can see the curve nodes are at their original positions.
The point I am making is that it would be useful for a cropped object to adopt its new dimensions.
I do realise that the purpose of 'Cropping' is so that the original object is still intact.

My suggestion is a second type of cropping that allows the new shape to change its dimensions. Perhaps we could have 'Non destructive cropping' and  'Destructive cropping'.

Cropping.afdesign

[toltec]

1 hour ago, jackamus said:

My suggestion is a second type of cropping that allows the new shape to change its dimensions. Perhaps we could have 'Non destructive cropping' and  'Destructive cropping'.

Cropping.afdesign

 

We already do have two types of cropping.

 

All cropping is non-destructive, unless you use the Rasterise command, which "destroys" it.

 

I think that some confusion may be that B is not cropped, it is masked (see mask icon). There is a big difference between "cropping" and "masking". At least to my mind.

In Designer the Vector Crop Tool masks, it doesn't crop.

 

Maybe what you want is some sort of "Slice" tool, (usually indicated by scissors in some software)?

 

 I believe it is on the Roadmap.

[Alfred]

30 minutes ago, toltec said:

I think that some confusion may be that B is not cropped, it is masked (see mask icon). There is a big difference between "cropping" and "masking". At least to my mind.

 

If there’s such a big difference, why does the mask icon incorporate the standard ‘crop’ symbol? 

[toltec]

Just now, Alfred said:

 

If there’s such a big difference, why does the mask icon incorporate the standard ‘crop’ symbol? 

 

Well, in a small mind, these things can seem very big 

[Alfred]

3 minutes ago, toltec said:

 

Well, in a small mind, these things can seem very big 

 

Who are you calling small-minded?? You obviously aren’t!

 

[toltec]

It's not the size that matters ...

 

I think I heard that somewhere 

[R C-R]

Despite the name, the Vector Crop Tool just applies a rectangular vector mask layer to the selected object or group. That it is a mask layer is obvious if you right-click on that layer in your B group:

You can create exactly the same 'crop' by drawing a rectangle the same size as you would using that tool & then dragging it onto the thumbnail of the object or group -- it is basically just a way to do that in one step. Either way, it is a vector mask & as with all mask layers, it is inherently non-destructive. Also, because a rectangle is a vector shape, you can convert it to curves & edit it with the Node Tool to change it to any arbitrary shape, but it still will be a mask layer & therefore non-destructive.

 

So, if you want to destructively edit some objects independently of their 'cropped size' this tool won't do it but you can easily do it by adding a new rectangle (or whatever shape you want) to the group, selecting it & the other objects in the group you want 'cropped' as below:

Then use the Geometry Divide operation & delete the unwanted objects.

 

28 minutes ago, Alfred said:

If there’s such a big difference, why does the mask icon incorporate the standard ‘crop’ symbol? 

Because it is the symbol used for vector mask layers. Pixel mask layers use a different symbol, the one with a small circle.

Edited February 10, 2018 by R C-R
Added comment about the symbol

[firstdefence]

21 minutes ago, toltec said:

It's not the size that matters ...

 

I think I heard that somewhere 

 

The Missus 

[Alfred]

6 minutes ago, R C-R said:

Then use the Geometry Divide operation & delete the unwanted objects

 

Unless I’ve overlooked something (which wouldn’t be the first time!) if you use the Intersect operation you should get the same result without needing to delete anything.

[R C-R]

10 minutes ago, Alfred said:

 

Unless I’ve overlooked something (which wouldn’t be the first time!) if you use the Intersect operation you should get the same result without needing to delete anything.

Try that with this destructive 'crop'.afdesign example, intersecting the green rectangle with (for instance) the 1,2, 3 curves. Maybe it is different in the Windows version but in the Mac one the Intersect operation does not work as expected when more than two objects are intersected. This is what I get:

[firstdefence]

@R C-R You are doing what Alfred means inverted, if the green box encompasses the red strips and then you lift the bottom line of the green box to exclude the bottom portion of the red strips it will effectively remove those bottom bits. see image.

 

 

 

Nibbled bits gone using Intersect.

[firstdefence]

51 minutes ago, R C-R said:

Try that with this destructive 'crop'.afdesign example, intersecting the green rectangle with (for instance) the 1,2, 3 curves. Maybe it is different in the Windows version but in the Mac one the Intersect operation does not work as expected when more than two objects are intersected. This is what I get:

 

I get this effect but It depends where the green rectangle is as to the type of effect you get. If I leave it at the top and select strips 1,2 & 3 I get your result, but if I drop the green rectangle below all of the strips but still within the group I get a different effect.

 

 

 

[jackamus]

Wow! I certainly tarted something here.

1 hour ago, R C-R said:

Despite the name, the Vector Crop Tool just applies a rectangular vector mask layer to the selected object or group. That it is a mask layer is obvious if you right-click on that layer in your B group:

You can create exactly the same 'crop' by drawing a rectangle the same size as you would using that tool & then dragging it onto the thumbnail of the object or group -- it is basically just a way to do that in one step. Either way, it is a vector mask & as with all mask layers, it is inherently non-destructive. Also, because a rectangle is a vector shape, you can convert it to curves & edit it with the Node Tool to change it to any arbitrary shape, but it still will be a mask layer & therefore non-destructive.

 

So, if you want to destructively edit some objects independently of their 'cropped size' this tool won't do it but you can easily do it by adding a new rectangle (or whatever shape you want) to the group, selecting it & the other objects in the group you want 'cropped' as below:

Then use the Geometry Divide operation & delete the unwanted objects.

 

Because it is the symbol used for vector mask layers. Pixel mask layers use a different symbol, the one with a small circle.

This does what I want except it puts a black line round the objects and I lose the red colour. otherwise I can edit in the way I want.

[R C-R]

13 minutes ago, jackamus said:

This does what I want except it puts a black line round the objects and I lose the red colour. otherwise I can edit in the way I want.

Did you try this with my destructive 'crop'.afdesign file, select the same (or any overlapping) layers, & use the Divide operation on that selection? When I do that, none of the red curves loose their color or get added strokes (if that is what you mean by a black line).

 

If you are using a different file or mine & you are getting any of these unwanted effects, can you post a screen shot of your Layers panel after you select the objects but before doing the Divide operation?

 

I suggested using Divide instead of Intersect because as long as all the objects are in the same group (or ungrouped), the layer order does not matter.

[jackamus]

Screen shot attached.

[R C-R]

1 minute ago, jackamus said:

Screen shot attached.

I asked for a screenshot of your Layers panel after you select the objects but before doing the Divide operation. From the number of red curve objects in your screenshot, it seems you were not using my file or not selecting just some of the original red curves (there were only 8) or I am not sure what. That makes it very hard to figure out why you are getting different results!!!

[jackamus]

Let's start again. Maybe I'm a bit thick!

What file did you want me to open?

[R C-R]

1 hour ago, firstdefence said:

@R C-R You are doing what Alfred means inverted, if the green box encompasses the red strips and then you lift the bottom line of the green box to exclude the bottom portion of the red strips it will effectively remove those bottom bits. see image.

With the green box at the bottom of the group as shown, I get what you do, including the original 3 curves being converted to a single green-filled "(Curves)" layer (which is something I wanted to avoid), but if the green box is anywhere else in the group, I get the same unexpected deletion of all of them if I use intersect, which is also something I wanted to avoid (because the intersect logic seems buggy if more than two objects are selected to intersect with the overlapping one).

[R C-R]

6 minutes ago, jackamus said:

What file did you want me to open?

The one I included in this post above, which I mentioned by name (& bolded) in this post.

 

Anyway, once again the link is destructive 'crop'.afdesign

[jackamus]

Screen shot attached show all objects selected as you requested.

[jackamus]

No file attached as there is a problem loading it. I will close AD and do it again.

[jackamus]

Hi RC,

New Screen shot attached. I just selected the objects as you requested.

I cannot save the screen shot file and I've no idea why!

 

 

[jackamus]

I have attached the screen shot as  an AD file to see if that helps.

This seems to have worked

Screen Shot 2018-02-10 at 16.26.08.afdesign

[firstdefence]

1 hour ago, R C-R said:

With the green box at the bottom of the group as shown, I get what you do, including the original 3 curves being converted to a single green-filled "(Curves)" layer (which is something I wanted to avoid), but if the green box is anywhere else in the group, I get the same unexpected deletion of all of them if I use intersect, which is also something I wanted to avoid (because the intersect logic seems buggy if more than two objects are selected to intersect with the overlapping one).

Got ya. As a matter of course I also created 3 green boxes and chose a green box and its corresponding red strip and I ended up with a short green strip, but if I select all three green boxes and their 3 corresponding red strips I end up with nothing, If I select one green box and three red strips I end up with a short green strip, 2 remaining green boxes and no red strips.

[jackamus]

Where does that leave me and my problem?