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podperson

Some of illustrator's better features

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I can't option-drag to duplicate. Also Command-J is a weird/non-standard duplicate command.

 

Option-clicking a vertex when in poly-edit mode (or whatever it is) should select all vertices of a given shape. (Similarly shift-clicking to add a vertex, command-clicking to toggle it, and so forth).

 

More snapping needed. 

 

(I just tested out the same sequence in iDraw and encountered similar frustrations.)

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Command-drag is our modifier shortcut for drag duplicate :)

 

Command-J, I think, is actually a PhotoShop shortcut - we adopted it to be consistent with Affinity Photo which obviously tries to keep things familiar for PhotoShop users.

 

Snapping is definitely getting a complete overhaul very soon!

 

I'll certainly have a think about the 'select similar vertices' option - never used it before... :)

 

Thanks,

Matt

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option-drag to copy has been an Apple UI standard since 1984.

 

Adobe's applications do a lot of clever and subtle things with keyboard chording which — if you want to claim superiority — you would do well to imitate or improve upon. They have a huge effect on productivity.

 

command-d is common across most Mac applications (and many Windows applications too — Photoshop doesn't really do duplicate so it's not really comparable — it has selection-to-layer commands which are another thing entirely).

 

Also I note you don't support holding down option during a scaling operation turning it into scale-from-center.

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cmd + option-drag in photoshop duplicates a selected area, so though Pod is right ("photoshop doesn't really do duplicate"), the keyboard shortcut is almost option-drag - almost the same in otherwords. Doesn't fly totally in the face of an Apple OS wide convention.

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Hi,

 

Just a quick response - Command does scale about centre during drag. The hint line for the tool shows what all the modifiers do :) I didn't add the Cmd-J modifier, so I genuinely don't know why it's not Cmd-D if that's the equivalent? I'll try to resolve these things as soon as I get chance. Incidentally, I just had a quick look and can see Cmd+J discussed as 'Duplicate in exact position' in PhotoShop, so I am sure it was added intentionally to Affinity Photo. I'll consider which of these might make more sense...

 

Take a look at our Pen Tool as a good example of the fact that we are very aware of the importance of subtle modifiers. Our tool does all the Adobe ones do, and then some extras - and there will be even more when the new beta comes out as the Pen Tool has had some attention and extra functionality added :)

 

Bear with us - we can get all of this working, and working very well. 

 

Thanks,

Matt

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Adobe's applications do a lot of clever and subtle things with keyboard chording which — if you want to claim superiority — you would do well to imitate or improve upon. They have a huge effect on productivity.

 

I agree. By keeping most (maybe all) of the Affinity Designers' shortcuts the same as Adobe illustrator you decrease the time which people need to adjust and make it easier for them to switch and say their goodbyes to Adobe. Bring world vector domination one step closer!  ;)

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command-d is common across most Mac applications

...

Also I note you don't support holding down option during a scaling operation turning it into scale-from-center.

 

+1 for command-D to duplicate. While I definitely appreciate the notion of keeping shortcuts the same as the Adobe apps to reduce the learning curve, if it's a case of Adobe (non-standard) vs. Apple (standard), I'd defer to the Apple standard, personally.

 

At the same time, I'd prefer option be the modifier for scale from center. Illustrator, Freehand, Sketch, iDraw, and OmniGraffle all follow this convention. What's the point of being different?

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At the risk of repeating myself again, wouldn't user definable keyboard shortcuts resolve a lot of this (or most anyway) give the users the ability to make their own favourite key combinations?  People might even be able swap "key sets" them down the road... much the same as some apps allow for custom UI themes, for an example, to be traded. (Blender)  Flexibility is the future! - says the non-programmer ;)

 

I certainly understand Serif's desire to chart their own course and yes there are better ways to build an app nowadays. I too fall back on years of muscle memory but I'm not against learning a new way if it makes sense. When the keyboard shortcuts come into play, this will help ease the transition for many. There's a sense of ownership when you get to tinker under the hood...  ;)

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I feel an absolute urge to chime in:

 

Yes, please switch the drag-to-duplicate shortcut from command+drag to option+drag. If you are targeting this package towards Mac users and OS X, you should adhere as best as you can to Apple's HIG (the fact that Illustrator already did and that you will, thus, be saving us some unnecessary muscle-memory retraining is an added bonus).

 

Personally, I might as well add that probably the top reason that made me switch from QuarkXPress to InDesign while studying design was not so much the latter's technical prowess but the former's blatant inconsistency as far as keyboard shortcuts and *especially* keyboard modifiers and drag behaviours were concerned. Not even Illustrator and Freehand, with all their idiosyncrasies, managed to be as mutually inconsistent as QuarkXPress and… well, pretty much everything else (even the pan tool shortcut was, contrary to the ubiquitous space bar, achieved by convoluted combination – option+command, if my memory doesn't fail me! –, and that one at least you got right… Well, drag-to-duplicate sits on the same level as far as object manipulation goes, IMHO).

 

Basic object manipulation in Affinity, as it stands, *feels* extremely frustrating and that, alone, may turn away many potential switchers; I mean, it's such a basic building block of our very workflow, even on the Finder (even more so than the Pan tool, which, ironically enough, can't be accessed through the space bar shortcut in Apple's own apps, like Preview) … Please restrict your innovations to tools where they are warranted, such as the node tool. You know, as they say, if it ain't broken, don't fix it.

 

I also agree you should allow for an easy keyboard shortcut and workspace customization process but, as far as standard configurations go, you really should stick to the ruling standard where it makes sense (modifier+drag behaviours being an egregious example; I might also add that unlike keyboard shortcuts, those aren't usually customizable in any piece of software – or any operating system, for that matter – as they are, indeed, core functions that should remain as consistent as possible – the only exception being their replacement by accessibility tools).

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I definitely agree with JGD.

 

System-wide consistency is one of the reasons people like OS X. Although I guess the entire UI of Affinity (so far) doesn't really "feel" native to OS X anyway, so whatever.

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This is an interesting thread - let me give you our (developers) perspective..

 

We find we're trying to balance two conflicting things here - OS X keys, and Adobe keys.. Never the twain shall meet..

 

We've recently made some changes to some text shortcuts (kerning, etc., moving from OS X to Adobe behaviour) - and we are about to implement the above recommendation by changing the drag-clone modifier to Option..

 

I agree that we need to get this right - but so far, guidance from the beta testers on this forum has been as inconsistent as our own initial effort to get this right by ourselves. This is not meant as a criticism - just an observation.

 

How should we solve this before we release? Customisable keys are certainly coming - but almost certainly after the initial release..

 

AndyS

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It doesn't seem to have held Adobe back much Andy, but I reckon you will definitely not be able to please everyone before customisation. Unless specific modifiers can be sidestepped in some dastardly intelligent way.


Twitter: @Writer_Dale
Work: Intel i7-6700, NVIDIA Quadro K1200 and Intel HD 530, Windows 10   |   Home: Intel Q6600, NVIDIA GTX950, Windows 10

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Glad to see you're changing to option-drag for clone. 

 

One more thing that would be nice with cloning would be toggling: Currently, releasing the clone modifier doesn't cancel the clone operation (the original stays there after you lift your finger), but in most other apps, it toggles.

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Hi Andy, lord knows not all of adobe's key shorts make total sense and I can see where any new competitor application would want to take the opportunity to "improve" on this but in many cases (as I'm sure you guys are aware) you may be dealing with years of convention and muscle memory especially with long time professional power users and if it's too different without a perceivable, really compelling reason, the risk of jumping ship may be postponed or not be worth it for some.... It might be better to ease that decision with some level of comfort and familiarity.

 

Adobe key shorts and/or conventions (where they make sense) might be one of the ways to do that. (vs apple conventions)

 

On the other hand, if you're skewing to younger designers and illustrators coming up or just starting out then this position may not hold water. They won't have as much of an investment to give up and will most likely be more receptive to "a new path".  Pun sort of intended.  ;) That might make a nice headline actually...  

 

Who are you targeting and what's the quickest route to achieve that goal?

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How should we solve this before we release? Customisable keys are certainly coming - but almost certainly after the initial release..

 

 

 

I'd say take full advantage of peoples' "muscle memory" the shortcuts that have been engraved into longtime Adobe illustrator users' brains.

That would make your new software feel really familiar to a lot of people, which should speed up learning to work with it a lot.

Use all shortcuts exactly the same as AI does.

 

And then improve after release with maybe changing some + making them customisable. 

 

 

 

I agree that we need to get this right - but so far, guidance from the beta testers on this forum has been as inconsistent as our own initial effort to get this right by ourselves. This is not meant as a criticism - just an observation.

 

 

Maybe a poll would give better insight?

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I still find myself pressing i all the time.

To pick a color or linewidth and start drawing something new, or with something selected and wanting to pick the color / line properties of another object...  :rolleyes:

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