affinity designer Austen's Library, Margate ca 1785

[NoLongerHere]

 

Austen's Library, Margate ca 1785 which is long gone. Based on a watercolour sketch which is the only visual reference for it that I could find. Created in Affinity Designer but tried to give it a little bit of a watercolour look. A little artistic license in places.

 

 

 

[Alfred]

Beautiful work, as usual! 👍

Just one question: is that an ampersand between ‘Library’ and ‘ca’? It seems to be sitting at a rather odd angle.

[NoLongerHere]

4 minutes ago, Alfred said:

Beautiful work, as usual! 👍

Just one question: is that an ampersand between ‘Library’ and ‘ca’? It seems to be sitting at a rather odd angle.

I used a copperplate font and that's what it has for the ampersand. I could probably use a more regular looking one from a different font that wouldn't look out of place though.

[jmwellborn]

Lovely!  

[walt.farrell]

I don't think I understand what "& ca" means.

[NoLongerHere]

13 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

I don't think I understand what "& ca" means.

It means etcetera (I think!)

[ronnyb]

15 minutes ago, VectorVonDoom said:

It means etcetera (I think!)

 

23 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

I don't think I understand what "& ca" means.

ca means circa, aka around, used when the exact date is unknown. In Spanish cerca means near. Circa is related to circumference, a perimeter near or around the focal point....

[NoLongerHere]

25 minutes ago, ronnyb said:

 

ca means circa, aka around, used when the exact date is unknown. In Spanish cerca means near. Circa is related to circumference, a perimeter near or around the focal point....

I don't think in this instance "Austen's Library &ca" can mean circa in that way as that wouldn't make any sense unless around relates to it being a circulating library. They were "private, for-profit ventures that resembled modern boutique gift-shops more than modern libraries". I'm not sure. Anyway that's what the sketch had on it so I've kept it the same.

[ronnyb]

7 minutes ago, VectorVonDoom said:

I don't think in this instance "Austen's Library &ca" can mean circa in that way as that wouldn't make any sense. I think it was a circulating library which were "private, for-profit ventures that resembled modern boutique gift-shops more than modern libraries".  Which is why I thought perhaps &ca was the old way of saying etc but could refer to the circulating part. I'm not sure.

I was referring to the end of the line of type where it says Margate ca 1785. That's definitely circa, referring to the date.

Etcetera is usually condensed typographically &c, where the & = Et, and the c = cetera.... In some older style fonts you can see the ampersand as just a ligature of Et+c. I believe Etsy, the popular online marketplace is named in reference to & + c... 

That looks more like a V, not an ampersand (&) so if anything it says Vca... not sure what that means.....

[NoLongerHere]

30 minutes ago, ronnyb said:

I was referring to the end of the line of type where it says Margate ca 1785. That's definitely circa, referring to the date.

Etcetera is usually condensed typographically &c, where the & = Et, and the c = cetera.... In some older style fonts you can see the ampersand as just a ligature of Et+c. I believe Etsy, the popular online marketplace is named in reference to & + c... 

That looks more like a V, not an ampersand (&) so if anything it says Vca... not sure what that means.....

Oh yeah that one means that. The other one is definitely &ca in the original, it looks more like v in this one due to the copperplate font I used.

Have changed it to a regular looking ampersand and re-uploaded.

[ronnyb]

35 minutes ago, VectorVonDoom said:

Oh yeah that one means that. The other one is definitely &ca in the original, it looks more like v in this one due to the copperplate font I used.

Have changed it to a regular looking ampersand and re-uploaded.

If thats the case then that ca is simply a longer contraction of cetera..... Typography matters! The last ca ought to have a period after the a to denote it's a contraction.... ca.

[NoLongerHere]

5 minutes ago, ronnyb said:

If thats the case then that ca is simply a longer contraction of cetera..... Typography matters! The last ca ought to have a period after the a to denote it's a contraction.... ca.

I think that might be what I originally said  I would normally add the full stop but kept it how they had it.

[walt.farrell]

Thanks, everyone.

[jmwellborn]

5 minutes ago, VectorVonDoom said:

I think that might be what I originally said  I would normally add the full stop but kept it how they had it.

Good choice.  I have just gone through 111 handwriting fonts to check the ampersand, and find that almost every one of the traditional calligraphy styles has the ampersand looking rather like your original.  Either that, or they are so ornate that they don't match your copperplate font, which is very elegant. The best I could come up with are Bickley Script or Dorchester Script.  Under the circumstances, your substitute passes the test with flying colors!

[ronnyb]

40 minutes ago, VectorVonDoom said:

I think that might be what I originally said  I would normally add the full stop but kept it how they had it.

Yes, I confused the ca's !

[Alfred]

13 hours ago, VectorVonDoom said:

I don't think in this instance "Austen's Library &ca" can mean circa in that way as that wouldn't make any sense unless around relates to it being a circulating library. They were "private, for-profit ventures that resembled modern boutique gift-shops more than modern libraries". I'm not sure. Anyway that's what the sketch had on it so I've kept it the same.

In the original sketch it says

Austen’s Library &ca

on the building itself, but

Austen’s &ca - Margate.

(without the word ‘Library’) underneath. I wonder whether ‘&ca’ is an abbreviation of ‘Bibliotheca’ here, but if so the word ‘Library’ on the building seems redundant.

By the way, I think the words over the shopfront window on the left should be ‘Stone Poulterer’ rather than ‘Stone Poultier’.

[NoLongerHere]

5 hours ago, Alfred said:

In the original sketch it says

Austen’s Library &ca

on the building itself, but

Austen’s &ca - Margate.

(without the word ‘Library’) underneath. I wonder whether ‘&ca’ is an abbreviation of ‘Bibliotheca’ here, but if so the word ‘Library’ on the building seems redundant.

By the way, I think the words over the shopfront window on the left should be ‘Stone Poulterer’ rather than ‘Stone Poultier’.

I don't know about the first part but I don't think it does, as you say that would be redundant. &c and a few others mean etc. so I still think that. They weren't normal libraries, not just books as far as I can tell so etc. would make sense. This is a drawing of Hall's library from 1821, sort of mix of a library, map tables (by the looks of it), meeting place and other stuff. Assuming it's fairly accurate then not that many books.

You are right it should be poulterer, have updated. Thanks.

[NoLongerHere]

17 hours ago, jmwellborn said:

Good choice.  I have just gone through 111 handwriting fonts to check the ampersand, and find that almost every one of the traditional calligraphy styles has the ampersand looking rather like your original.  Either that, or they are so ornate that they don't match your copperplate font, which is very elegant. The best I could come up with are Bickley Script or Dorchester Script.  Under the circumstances, your substitute passes the test with flying colors!

Thanks, I can't remember what it is but it doesn't look out of place. I assume the original one is proper but it's not most people's idea of an ampersand.