Why won't Serif listen to customer needs and create a Lightroom alternative for us?

[Chills]

3 hours ago, LondonSquirrel said:

So in fact, it is exactly as I wrote above. You want APhoto to be like some other product: Solution: Use some other product.

NOT AT ALL. People are asking for a DAM. 

[KC Honie]

11 hours ago, loukash said:

^ emphasis mine.

In exactly that sense, as a graphic designer (and not a photographer) who makes excessive use of the whole suite, I'd expect Serif to complete the suite of apps with a proper DAM, not just a "DAM for photographers". 

In other words, asking for a "Lightroom knockoff" doesn't make sense in the full Affinity context. If anything, it should be a "Bridge knockoff", but then some.

That would be great!!!  "Just" a bridge knock off would be unfortunate, but a good start.

[Max P]

I think it's unhealthy to include a DAM in affinity!  Past experience with LR6 and  difficulties to evolve., update in time

Seriff, a small company, already has to deal with its multi-OS suite.
As far as I'm concerned, this company should concentrate on optimising the code for native functions and their updates.

I don't want any additional 'glue'  NO DAM

There's enough of that, as a standalone application, and some nice ones at that.

[wonderings]

15 hours ago, KC Honie said:

Undoubtedly, Serif has spoken loudly by their actions.  Of course it is also possible that they know they desperately need the app in their portfolio and simply do not have the capital to support its development and marketing.

For me it was not a huge deal.  I simply switched back to Adobe, both LR and PS.  I no longer use Affinity Photo, Photoshop is so far ahead it is shocking.  But I would still have purchased Affinity Develop had Serif chosen to create the app.  The integration between Affinity apps is very compelling. 

Not sure where you would even get the idea that they "desperately need the app in th eir portfolio" from. Affinity makes some great software liked by a lot of people. A select few want Lightroom from another company other than Adobe. This is not the direction Serif is going at the moment, so if you need a DAM, then Affinity might not be for you if it is that important. And again, if it is all that important sticking with Adobe is not that big a deal, they make great software and are an industry standard, so no loss there. 

 

 

[Chills]

2 hours ago, Max P said:

I think it's unhealthy to include a DAM in affinity!  Past experience with LR6 and  difficulties to evolve., update in time

Seriff, a small company, already has to deal with its multi-OS suite.
As far as I'm concerned, this company should concentrate on optimising the code for native functions and their updates.

I don't want any additional 'glue'  NO DAM

There's enough of that, as a standalone application, and some nice ones at that.

I am sure they will continue to work on photo, designer and publisher.

However, a DAM is essential for most photographers. It is also essential for designers and publishers.
This is why Adobe did Bridge.   I think Affinity could do one as well. IT is not just tying the apps together as they do that already but the assets.

If you don't want it, then don't buy it.

However, Lightroom is a photo cataloguing system which is a specific DAM. The mapping and web galleries sections are very useful.
There is nothing else like Lightroom out there.   Some one mentioned AcDsee but that has a DAM capability as a small part of the app.

As Affinity has Photo they could use that as the editor.  However, as others have said, Affinity needs to improve its RAW converter, which helps everyone.
Again, if you don't want it don't buy it.

Affinity have said they won't do an HTML/Web program which is fair enough.  I doubt they will do a video or audio program, but a DAM is an essential but missing part of the suite they haver.

 

 

[loukash]

7 hours ago, KC Honie said:

"Just" a bridge knock off would be unfortunate

It was just an example, Bridge being the closest to a "proper DAM" that Adobe has to offer.  
Of course, I have Bridge with the CS5.5 installations on my old Macs. I've never used it as a DAM though, usually only for batch changing or applying XMP metadata or for specifically previewing/inspecting Adobe documents.

As I have noted many times, since over a decade I'm eagerly waiting for a Mac compatible successor of the conceptually brilliant but functionally dated iView/Expression Media. Haven't found one yet, although some are getting close and now even can display the Affinity QuickLook thumbnails.

In that sense: 
Serif, please give me a modern iView Media knockoff! 

[KC Honie]

4 hours ago, wonderings said:

Not sure where you would even get the idea that they "desperately need the app in th eir portfolio" from. Affinity makes some great software liked by a lot of people. A select few want Lightroom from another company other than Adobe. This is not the direction Serif is going at the moment, so if you need a DAM, then Affinity might not be for you if it is that important. And again, if it is all that important sticking with Adobe is not that big a deal, they make great software and are an industry standard, so no loss there. 

 

 

You are right, as a photographer, Affinity is no longer for me, I switched back to Lightroom and Photoshop.  I must have DAM functionality.  If I were a working graphic designer I would have to have DAM functionality as well.

Serif has created reasonable tools for the hobbyist, but few working pros would be able to use the tools.

For the photographer it would be a near trivial task to create a lite version of AP with a DAM called Affinity Develop, but for all of the apps they desperately need a proper (better than Bridge) DAM.

I presently use NeoFinder, at least all of my digital assets are catalogued.

Edit 1:
As an aside, when I went back to Photoshop, I was shocked at how far along the product had progressed, masking shocked me the most. Serif really needs to up their game...

Edit 2:
As a company Serif has "hung their hat" on creatives, and not providing a way to manages those assets in their apps is unconscionable. 

I have close to 1 million raw images, many thousands of edited keepers, many thousands of shooped images, and untold numbers of graphics elements from AD.  How would you propose managing those assets without a proper DAM?

I wish them well...

[KC Honie]

3 hours ago, loukash said:

In that sense: 
Serif, please give me a modern iView Media knockoff! 

WOW, that would be fantastic!!!

[loukash]

Just now, KC Honie said:

that would be fantastic

By the way, if Affinity apps had only a 4-character file extension, e.g. *.afpu, *.afph, *.afde, then iView would even still be able to catalog them, albeit without preview.
Or – on Mac – you'd have to assign each Affinity document a custom 4-character file type attribute as used in the olden classic Mac OS days and add it to iView's import preferences. I tried that once, and it worked. But whenever you edit and save that document, this attribute will be stripped and has to be manually reassigned again with a corresponding tool (e.g. Path Finder).

There are apps that can do similar DAM things like iView pretty well, but they insist on copying all assets into their own directories (no go for me!)
Others may have have very similar features but they insist on using a monolithic database (like XnViewMP – a backup and sync nightmare!)
My best candidate so far is NeoFinder which I'm using since over two decades anyway but it still lacks many of iView's display options.

[Chills]

3 minutes ago, loukash said:

My best candidate so far is NeoFinder which I'm using since over two decades anyway but it still lacks many of iView's display options.

NeoFinder is not available for Windows. Like it or not any program like this needs to run on both Mac and Windows.

[KC Honie]

5 minutes ago, loukash said:

My best candidate so far is NeoFinder which I'm using since over two decades anyway but it still lacks many of iView's display options.

I have been using NeoFinder as well.  It keeps reasonable track of my 1.25 to 1.5 million graphic assets.

[loukash]

4 minutes ago, Chills said:

NeoFinder is not available for Windows.

Voilà:
abemeda.de

11 minutes ago, KC Honie said:

I have been using NeoFinder as well.  It keeps track of 1.25 to 1.5 million graphic assets.

Hehe, searching "every catalog file" whose "Kind is not Folder", I get 3,000,458 items as a result… It takes a while and some happily spinning beachball to list them, but eventually they appear. It's not just assets though, I'm also cataloging discs and disks, some bootable disks even including hidden system files. 2000 catalogs in total. 

[loukash]

22 minutes ago, Chills said:

Like it or not any program like this needs to run on both Mac and Windows.

Does it?
pixlpath.com is one of those I find quite promising, too, albeit too focused on just photography for my needs.
Mac only, sorry.

Edited November 30, 2023 by loukash

[Chills]

13 minutes ago, loukash said:

Does it?
pixlpath.com is one of those I find quite promising, too, albeit too focused on just photography for my needs.
Mac only, sorry.

Thanks,

We use both Mac and PC here.

TBH we are moving from Mac to PC for most things now.
I think it was because both Apple and Adobe had a change of direction around the same time.
stopped at CS6   and now use Resolve, Affinity and Lightroom primarily on PC.

Though still drewamweaver on Mac. . 

[myclay]

if a mac and windows compatible DAM only solution is needed, Eagle is imo a good option.
https://en.eagle.cool/

 

 

[Chills]

The problem is none of these DAM solutions have the ability to load an ITPC keyword set (I have an ITPC structured set of over 14,000 words), have collections, smart collections or do web galleries.  Though one does seem to do mapping. 

 

[myclay]

https://en.eagle.cool/article/757-how-to-import-images-with-iptc-attributes

The option of Importing images with IPTC keywords is available in Eagle.
A keyword list of ITCP to import doesn´t seem to be available there.

 

 

 

 

[loukash]

44 minutes ago, myclay said:

if a mac and windows compatible DAM only solution is needed, Eagle is imo a good option.

Eagle is exactly the one that is so promising, if only it wouldn't require all assets being moved into a custom library:
https://en.eagle.cool/article/480-what-is-the-library?categoryId=155-category£
With literally hundreds of GBs of assets already painstakingly maintained since decades, this is an absolute no go for me.  
Even Apple's Photos app can do better in this regard.

[loukash]

1 hour ago, Chills said:

TBH we are moving from Mac to PC for most things now.

So be happy. You're likely to have even more choice on Windows.  

[myclay]

I agree, best would be a DAM which keeps the folder/file structure intact and shows "unknown" files as is.

only other solution I know of is the file manager XYplorer but thats usually coupled with a lot of scripting and elbow grease to make it do what you need.

https://www.xyplorer.com/index.php

https://www.xyplorer.com/xyfc/viewtopic.php?t=18442

 

[Chills]

12 minutes ago, loukash said:

Eagle is exactly the one that is so promising, if only it wouldn't require all assets being moved into a custom library:
https://en.eagle.cool/article/480-what-is-the-library?categoryId=155-category£
With literally hundreds of GBs of assets already painstakingly maintained since decades, this is an absolute no go for me.  
Even Apple's Photos app can do better in this regard.

The good thing about Lightroom is the images stay where they are (and are not touched)  and there is a Library catalogue file.  
Even if the catalogue fails (and the metadata sidecars)  the images and the file structure is unchanged.

[KC Honie]

1 hour ago, Chills said:

The good thing about Lightroom is the images stay where they are (and are not touched)  and there is a Library catalogue file.  
Even if the catalogue fails (and the metadata sidecars)  the images and the file structure is unchanged.

That was the challenge (and still is) with Capture One Pro.  Their catalog system is similar to Adobe's but it is unreliable.  So, many of us (current and former C1P users) simply use sessions or have a large number of catalogs (both defeat the purpose of an image DAM)...

[ATP]

I want to pop in here and ask, are people happy with how Affinity Photo handles RAW photos?

My old copy of Lightroom handles RAW pictures a lot better, so much so that I never use Affinity Photo for anything RAW.

Their RAW processing needs to become a lot better if they create a Lightroom competitor.

[Chills]

7 minutes ago, ATP said:

Their RAW processing needs to become a lot better if they create a Lightroom competitor.

Which is possibly why we haven't seen a Lightroom /DAM from them so far?

 

[loukash]

The "killer feature" of iView/Expression Media was that when creating a catalog of assets, you could simply drag and drop items from all over your computer environment, including network, CDRs etc. iView would catalog the metadata and create a thumbnail so that the object remains represented even if the original is unavailable. Additionally, you could also define watch folders that would automatically add all new content to the catalog. On Mac, iView was even smart enough to follow your Finder actions if you would move files while the catalog was open, and update the path accordingly. If it lost track of a folder because you may have moved or renamed it, you could reset its path to a new target.
Then, with the catalog content, you could create as many hierarchical "catalog sets" as needed regardless if the items were "online" or "offline".

This flexibility remains unmatched.

There was also a rudimental image editor, but meh, why bother if there are real bitmap editor apps? In fact, Expression Media still works alright with Affinity (on Mac v1 only, of course) in that regard, as you can set any app as your default editor for a specific file type, plus you can also add custom editors, so that I could always open bitmap or (generic) vector files in my catalogs directly in Affinity apps. Also via drag and drop, for that matter.