art text tool suddenly ignores leading

[KarinC]

I like to use the art text tool for simple short statements. All of a sudden when I use the artistic text tool and use either hard or soft enter, the next line of text goes to the first line of the text just typed and it will be typed over (two lines of text on top of each other). I have searched and searched to find the setting I must have accidentally hit to ignore the default leading. Any ideas?

If I go back to a previously made art text box with multiple lines I can add more lines normally. I just can't make a new one with more than one line of text.

I have also had trouble with the leading changing from default to 36 point every time I make a new artistic text block. I've just gotten used to it and check every time I make a art text box.

This is publisher 2.1.1 on windows

[Old Bruce]

You may have set your leading to 0 (zero) points. Check the Paragraph Panel while the text cursor is in the offending text.

Try hitting the Revert Defaults button.

[KarinC]

I checked the leading first. It is the default for 12 pt text (12.4). (It was 36pt like it automatically is most of the time before I changed it back to default)

It is acting like the leading is 0 which it isn't

I clicked revert defaults which did not help.

 

[KarinC]

I changed the space after paragraphs to the same as the default which worked or at least I got a space but the older text boxes that did not have the problem has the space after paragraphs set to zero. I changed a new text box back and forth between zero and the default and managed to make it work again set at zero which is where it should be. I had to change it back and forth a few times.

At the same time I did not have the same problem with the frame text tool. The artistic text tool seems to have issues.

I have noticed that previously used settings for text seem to crop up where you don't expect or want them. It's like they are sticky. I do not want 36 point leading every time just because I used it one time.

[walt.farrell]

A screenshot with the cursor in the Art Text, showing the Character panel and the Paragraph panel, and the Context Toolbar, would be useful.

[philipt18]

Oddly, I'm also seeing a weird issue with leading, but in Publisher 2.2 Beta (1931). In my case changing the leading doesn't do anything. I have a chapter where the body text is normally 12pt, and I changed a few paragraphs to 9pt, but there is way too much space between the lines (as if leading remained at 12pt). However, leading says 9pt, but whatever number I set it to, it doesn't change. Same with the 12pt text, I can't change the leading. I know this isn't the same exact issue, but in case there is a connection, I've posted it here as well.

[KarinC]

6 hours ago, philipt18 said:

Oddly, I'm also seeing a weird issue with leading, but in Publisher 2.2 Beta (1931). In my case changing the leading doesn't do anything. I have a chapter where the body text is normally 12pt, and I changed a few paragraphs to 9pt, but there is way too much space between the lines (as if leading remained at 12pt). However, leading says 9pt, but whatever number I set it to, it doesn't change. Same with the 12pt text, I can't change the leading. I know this isn't the same exact issue, but in case there is a connection, I've posted it here as well.

That problem drove me crazy, too. It is caused by the Baseline Grid. It acts differently with the artistic text tool and the frame text tool. Go to View/Baseline Grid and turn it off. That fixes it.

[thomaso]

7 hours ago, philipt18 said:

In my case changing the leading doesn't do anything. I have a chapter where the body text is normally 12pt, and I changed a few paragraphs to 9pt, but there is way too much space between the lines (as if leading remained at 12pt)

If it is not the baseline grid noted by @KarinC, check where you set the 12 pt leading: If it is set as character property (-> leading override) then reset this to "auto" (… and use the option only if you want to override the paragraph leading on purpose).

[thomaso]

1 hour ago, KarinC said:

That problem drove me crazy, (…) differently with the artistic text tool and the frame text tool.

It's worth to be aware of the differences of the two layer types FRAME versus ART, for instance regarding text flow/overflow, text wrapping and other text frame properties like inset, column, vertical alignment or global+local baseline grid.

[KarinC]

Thank you for this information thomaso. I didn't realize all of those options were available. This will be very useful in my project.

[philipt18]

3 hours ago, thomaso said:

If it is not the baseline grid noted by @KarinC, check where you set the 12 pt leading: If it is set as character property (-> leading override) then reset this to "auto" (… and use the option only if you want to override the paragraph leading on purpose).

 

Thank you. Indeed there was an override set to 14pt. I have no idea how that got set. Setting it to auto fixed it. Now my question is what happens if I set that to Auto in my style settings. It will change the layout of my whole book. Not looking forward to fixing all the problems that would cause, but I guess I'm wasting a lot of space if I leave it.

[thomaso]

1 minute ago, philipt18 said:

no idea how that got set

🦄 … ?

2 minutes ago, philipt18 said:

Now my question is what happens if I set that to Auto in my style settings. It will change the layout of my whole book.

Advantage: it will help to continue the layout with less surprise … while the effort to fix the saved styles might make you never to confuse paragraph leading and character override.

Just in case: if you created many styles it may be worth to use the "Based on" & the "Next Style" options, … additionally this also may reduce the required effort to fix the leading override for all styles individually.

[philipt18]

Weird, when I set it to Auto for my whole text, when there are descending letters above tall letters, they touch.

[thomaso]

41 minutes ago, philipt18 said:

Weird, when I set it to Auto for my whole text, when there are descending letters above tall letters, they touch.

This might indicate that "leading override" has not been assigned to every line before.

Or the character option "baseline shift" might be set aditionally. It causes selected lines (or just characters) to move up/down separately from both "leading" and "leading override".

Or you need simply to increase "leading".

If none of the three parameters solves your issue then upload a screenshot with Character and Paragraph panels with their according sections visible plus the Layers panel with an affected text frame selected.

[dinah]

I am finding that leading gets stuck and I am unable to change it as well 

[Horizon3]

I too have been experiencing this problem with the leading getting stuck. 

[walt.farrell]

@dinah and @Horizon3: "leading getting stuck" is a very vague description. We need more description of what you mean, screenshots or videos demonstrating it, and ideally a sample document that suffers from the problem.

[Horizon3]

Yes. What I mean is that I highlight text that I notice needs spacing between the lines. I open the Paragraph Panel and change the leading but the text does not change. No increase (or decrease) in the leading. I then open the Text Styles panel and edit the relevant text style hoping this will solve the problem. I go to Position & Transform tab and increase/change the leading from there. Nothing happens. Text remains the same. Too squishy. If/when problem happens again, I will try to have video. 

[walt.farrell]

5 minutes ago, Horizon3 said:

Yes. What I mean is that I highlight text that I notice needs spacing between the lines. I open the Paragraph Panel and change the leading but the text does not change. No increase (or decrease) in the leading. I then open the Text Styles panel and edit the relevant text style hoping this will solve the problem. I go to Position & Transform tab and increase/change the leading from there. Nothing happens. Text remains the same. Too squishy. If/when problem happens again, I will try to have video. 

Even a screenshot would help, including the complete application window, the Layers panel and Character panel. And ideally with Text > Show Special Characters enabled.

 

 

[Old Bruce]

6 minutes ago, Horizon3 said:

Yes. What I mean is that I highlight text that I notice needs spacing between the lines. I open the Paragraph Panel and change the leading but the text does not change. No increase (or decrease) in the leading. I then open the Text Styles panel and edit the relevant text style hoping this will solve the problem. I go to Position & Transform tab and increase/change the leading from there. Nothing happens. Text remains the same. Too squishy. If/when problem happens again, I will try to have video. 

Do you have Align to Baseline turned on? in the Text Style, in the Text Frame or for the Document.

[Horizon3]

Yes @Old Bruce, it is turned on in the Text Frame and I believe also in the text style (there is a – in the box Align to Baseline Grid). 

[walt.farrell]

18 minutes ago, Horizon3 said:

it is turned on in the Text Frame and I believe also in the text style (there is a – in the box Align to Baseline Grid). 

Then you can only make Leading changes that agree with your Baseline Grid setting. E.g., a Leading that matches the Baseline Grid, or is exactly 2x the Baseline Grid, or 3x, etc.

By the way, this topic is about Artistic Text, not Frame Text.

[Old Bruce]

15 minutes ago, Horizon3 said:

Yes @Old Bruce, it is turned on in the Text Frame and I believe also in the text style (there is a – in the box Align to Baseline Grid). 

The - in the box Align to Baseline Grid means the value is inherited from whatever that text style is based on. You can have it checked or unchecked for explicit On Off setting or - for [No Change] or as I call it Inherited. I would clear it for this or go up in the Based on and uncheck it there.

Myself for the most part I turn it off in the very top level and set my leading to Exact values. Only because that is how I learned to set type. I had to use physical strips of lead which were 1 or more points thick between the lines of lead letters on a stick. No fractional or percentages leading doing that.

[Horizon3]

@Old Bruce Ah! I see. Thank you very much for your explanation.

On 8/17/2023 at 3:37 PM, Old Bruce said:

that is how I learned to set type. I had to use physical strips of lead which were 1 or more points thick between the lines of lead letters on a stick. No fractional or percentages leading doing that.

This is very interesting to learn. So you must be very comfortable in Publisher, yes? Your prior knowledge must have transferred nicely, giving you small learning curve. I look forward to learning more from you and thank you for sharing your knowledge. 

@walt.farrell, 

On 8/17/2023 at 3:36 PM, walt.farrell said:

By the way, this topic is about Artistic Text, not Frame Text.

Thank you for this information. 

[thomaso]

On 8/17/2023 at 9:16 PM, Horizon3 said:

it is turned on in the Text Frame and I believe also in the text style (there is a – in the box Align to Baseline Grid). 

Note that Text Style and Text Frame maybe different Baseline Grids. It may be recommended to keep the view option "Show Baseline Grid" activated. If none is used at all then none will get displayed. But if one is used, either globally or locally (for certain frames only) then it is helpful to get it shown, simply to avoid situations like yours above, until you are familiar with the interface and the possible text style and object options. To hide it then you can activate the "Preview Mode" (instead of deactivating "Show Baseline Grid").