Oops !... “Rename” dialog box in French

[sansnom]

It seems to me that Apple recommends the position of the validation button placed on the far right... 🙃

[MikeTO]

There used to be a number of these backward buttons but Serif fixed the ones that were reported so hopefully this one can be fixed in an upcoming version.

I didn't even know there was a Rename Layer dialog so I didn't notice this one myself, I've always just renamed layers inline in the panel.

Also the buttons should be right aligned.

[walt.farrell]

11 minutes ago, MikeTO said:

I didn't even know there was a Rename Layer dialog so I didn't notice this one myself, I've always just renamed layers inline in the panel.

2.1 enhancement:

 

[Lee D]

I've attached a screenshot of how the same dialog (app set to French) currently looks in the current 2.2 beta on macOS.

Some small changes have taken place such as the Rename button being on the same side, regardless of the apps language.

I've been looking for an official Apple reference regarding the correct placement of the buttons (left/right). From what I can find as long as there is a Primary and Secondary the placement is down to the developer. That being said if you can find a link to an Apple Developer page I'll take a look and log it if needed.

[sansnom]

Hello Lee D and thank you for having already treated the subject for the next update, it's cool!...
Otherwise, concerning the position of the buttons, my proposal came from the habit. Attached is a fresh screenshot of the web page save dialog in Safari, with the position of the “active” button on the right. Afterwards, it's up to you to choose according to your own tastes or constraints...

[Bryan Rieger]

38 minutes ago, Lee D said:

I've been looking for an official Apple reference regarding the correct placement of the buttons (left/right). From what I can find as long as there is a Primary and Secondary the placement is down to the developer. That being said if you can find a link to an Apple Developer page I'll take a look and log it if needed.

The advice I always used was the 'default' behaviour for routine, non-destructive actions the highlighted button is on the right, and also mapped to the enter/return key.

For destructive actions, those which will make changes that cannot be undone the opposite pattern is used so that the default action on the right is to cancel, which then requires the user to very specifically select the left button. Which button is highlighted in this case is somewhat down to the context it's being used, and how destructive the action is. If it's to reformat your hard drive the cancel button would likely be highlighted.

More information can be found in the Apple Developer Documentation links below.

Alerts
Modality

Edited July 17, 2023 by Bryan Rieger
Added links to Apple Developer Docs.

[Hangman]

Hi @Lee D,

A bit of topical debate on the subject, even though it relates to the web it's still relevant...

https://medium.theoremone.co/button-ambiguity-alignment-order-a42736e25334

 

[Bryan Rieger]

Good read.  The TLDR version is the following (from the article):

Quote

Ok, each web product handles it a bit differently.. but what should I do?
I’ll let you in on a secret. As long as you follow a consistent rule throughout your product you can’t go wrong (testing and listening to your users is also a good idea 😉).

I would add not only a consistent rule throughout your product, but also one that is in-line with platform (macOS, iPadOS, Windows) guidelines and user expectations. Traditionally the web hasn't had this problem, but as more and more web apps are now also desktop apps, the platform specific guidelines begin to come into play again.

[sansnom]

I just used the macOS Disk Utility app, and...

[MikeTO]

4 hours ago, Lee D said:

I've been looking for an official Apple reference regarding the correct placement of the buttons (left/right). From what I can find as long as there is a Primary and Secondary the placement is down to the developer. That being said if you can find a link to an Apple Developer page I'll take a look and log it if needed.

The Apple HCI guidelines used to be very precise but they're fluffy now. The page describing buttons shows an illustration of the primary button on the right with a fixed space to its right that implies it's right aligned, and a secondary button to its left with a fixed space between them. Then there's a flex space to the left of the secondary button which again implies the buttons are right aligned.

https://developer.apple.com/design/human-interface-guidelines/buttons

I think a level of detail was lost in the HCI guidelines when they merged the dialog page into the window page. Here's an archived version: "Any buttons in the bottom right of a dialog should dismiss the dialog. An action button, which initiates the dialog’s primary action, should be farthest to the right. A Cancel button should be to the immediate left of the action button. If a third dismissal button exists, it should be to the left of the Cancel button."

https://web.archive.org/web/20181208150058/https://developer.apple.com/design/human-interface-guidelines/macos/windows-and-views/dialogs/

The Mac button layout hasn't changed since 1984 except for the new iOS-like Action Sheets which stack buttons vertically. I'm a bit surprised that Apple hasn't decided to centre align Mac all buttons to be more iOS-like. I vaguely recall reading in one of Bruce Tognazzini's books why the team decided to put the primary button on the right. Microsoft put primary on the left in Windows just to be different.