AI generative Fill in Affinity

[v_kyr]

20 minutes ago, R C-R said:

Among other things, even if everything works perfectly are people really going to want to use it for as long as they might regularly use a desktop computer?

Who said that that's the overall intention of this device? And where do we (you or I) should know how long some individual persons might be physically able to use such a device. - You might get dizzy after half an hour. I, on the other hand, may can handle it for 2 hours at a time and my little nephew until everyone says stop it, you've had this thing on for half a day now!

29 minutes ago, R C-R said:

It's not very well suited for sharing photos or movies with others, so it isn't likely to replace our phones & TVs for that.

That's probably not the main intention of this device, to replace other buyable Apple products/devices. But hey it has an own OS, it has WiFi, it has cameras and eye screens. So there's everything there for it to offer to also make some screenshots, or a recording, of what you actually see and sending that to your home network (...another computer, your iPhone, your iWatch ... etc.)

And do you really think Apple would sell you something, which would make you to never ever again have a need to buy an iPhone or their TV add-on devices etc., to make all other things they sell obsolete?

40 minutes ago, R C-R said:

It is relatively heavy for a head-mounted device which could cause problems for many if they try to use it for long.

Where do you know from, did you weared it (no)! - Don't you think they've already thought about that and thus also did extracted the battery part in order to save weight on your head. I've overall read & heard the difference here, that they tried to keep it pretty light and comfortable to wear in contrast to other such devices!

48 minutes ago, R C-R said:

Bottom line is we just don't know enough to predict how well the market will accept it as a mainstream device, or if it ever will.

So let's talk again when the first 5000 people who already bought one, then do share their overall impressions & insights!

[R C-R]

17 hours ago, v_kyr said:

That's probably not the main intention of this device, to replace other buyable Apple products/devices.

But it is being touted as a potential replacement, not just for Apple products but for all our computing devices, including phones, tablets, desktop & laptop computers, plus big screen TVs, & so on. Of course, Apple is not saying this directly but others are & it is implied in the whole 'future of computing'  & 'this changes everything' hype, including some of what Apple spokespeople are gushing about. Consider for example what Tim Cook said on Good Morning America about it being able to "do anything a Mac or iPhone can do & more."

17 hours ago, v_kyr said:

I've overall read & heard the difference here, that they tried to keep it pretty light and comfortable to wear in contrast to other such devices!

I've read about that too but I have also seen quite a few YT videos like this one & this one & this one in which concerns were expressed about its long term comfort by people who actually were able to try it out at Apple. Among other things, consider the length of many movies & sporting events can easily run over 2 hours so that is likely to be a concern for many. There is only so much that can be done even by Apple to make a one pound or so, front heavy head worn device comfortable to wear for extended periods.

Edited June 13, 2023 by R C-R
Added another YT reference

[MandM]

I know the thread has now veered off from AI to Apple's latest gadget (possibly as important as the launch of the iPhone, we'll see) but I'd just like to add something on AI and photo editing from the perspective of a basic user.

Forget generating elephants in space suits and liquidating entire crowds from St. Peter's Square...

I think a piece of software that can offer people with basic skills like me the following:

• Easy background replacement (especially if shot on a green screen or neutral background)
• Easy outcropping to fix minor problems with framing
• Easy facial feature correction (face-aware warp, etc., eyes, mouth, reshaping, etc.)
• Easy removal of problematic elements (no, not everyone in St. Peter's Square, just maybe a dog or plant or whatever)
• Easy replacement of maybe patterns, textures, hair colors, etc.

will be successful in attracting what you might call semi-skilled amateurs, which is, I would suspect, not a small market.

I'm very comfortable with Affinity Photo now after having used it for 18 months or so, but I am now changing to Mac and seriously weighing up a PS sub or buying Affinity on all platforms for the (effectively) low package price they offer the suite at. Maybe I'll try both approaches.

But the time-saving aspect of PS for my hobbyist interests is very tempting. In some ways, it's refreshing AP doesn't hold your hand like PS does. You learn a lot. But the trouble is, as others have said, once you have learned how to remove a background perfectly, it does not get that much faster, just better. For us hobbyists, who are spending our time on photo editing but getting no money for doing so, saving time is going to be a key factor. (The permanent sub to PS is of course a pain but then again, PS is now effectively server-powered photo editing, so it actually makes more sense than before.)

Just my $0.02.

[v_kyr]

4 hours ago, R C-R said:

But it is being touted as a potential replacement, not just for Apple products but for all our computing devices, including phones, tablets, desktop & laptop computers, plus big screen TVs, & so on.

Well that's the overall generating (making) hype, fuel interest and promotion in a new upcomming Apple product. IT medias etc. didn't had these times much news to report these days, so they're now pouncing on it everywhere just to have something to report and talk about at all. - So far we're just debating/talking about eggs that have not yet been laid, meaning none of us have seen or tried the part in person. Therefore, one cannot really say with absolute certainty what the device is predestined for and what not. - So you only rely on what others say without having explored the properties and possible applications yourself. So how do you know at this point if it can actually replace your computers and your iPhone etc. at all.

5 hours ago, R C-R said:

Consider for example what Tim Cook said on Good Morning America about it being able to "do anything a Mac or iPhone can do & more."

What did you expect that he says, that it will be only partially usable. Or that it's too heavy to be carried for two hours at a time?  Of course he will say that thing can make coffee and wash the car, it's the best thing since sliced bread etc., since after all he also wants to sell these devices world wide.

5 hours ago, R C-R said:

...Among other things, consider the length of many movies & sporting events can easily run over 2 hours so that is likely to be a concern for many. ...

I think it's better to get your own picture of it, aka try it out for yourself and don't necessarily rely on what others tell you. In addition, your application environment could be completely different than watching sports programs for 2 hours at a time or the like. - You can also take routinely breaks before you fall over, no one is forcing you to keep it on your head non-stop. The device shouldn't control you, you should control the device, you decide what you do with it and how long you can endure it.

[v_kyr]

3 hours ago, MandM said:

I know the thread has now veered off from AI to Apple's latest gadget

Yes, sadly this thread has drifted away from it's initial theme. - The removale and replacement AI features you've listed do make sense for imaging software and are things other software partly already supports.

3 hours ago, MandM said:

But the time-saving aspect of PS for my hobbyist interests is very tempting. In some ways, it's refreshing AP doesn't hold your hand like PS does. You learn a lot. But the trouble is, as others have said, once you have learned how to remove a background perfectly, it does not get that much faster, just better. For us hobbyists, who are spending our time on photo editing but getting no money for doing so, saving time is going to be a key factor.

Hmm, I usually would see that the other way around, namely as a hobbyist I usually have more time of the world to do something. I'm not forced to do something always mostly time quickly due to business deadlines and the like. - Meaning as a hobbyist there is usually no customer sitting in your neck ...

[R C-R]

7 hours ago, v_kyr said:

Well that's the overall generating (making) hype, fuel interest and promotion in a new upcomming Apple product.

Yes, & it is not that much different from all the hype about how AI will change everything, which is why it ended up being discussed so much in this topic.

[v_kyr]

9 minutes ago, R C-R said:

Yes, & it is not that much different from all the hype about how AI will change everything, which is why it ended up being discussed so much in this topic.

As far as I know, Mr. Cook always (mostly) avoids using the word AI here in this context and also makes certain group-wide behavioral guidelines in this regard. Same here for that upcoming Apple product and how it was presented at WWDC.

 

[R C-R]

14 minutes ago, v_kyr said:

As far as I know, Mr. Cook always (mostly) avoids using the word AI here in this context and also makes certain group-wide behavioral guidelines in this regard.

I am not sure who from Apple mentioned it but AI (as I understand it in the form of neural networks) was used both for training the OS on recognizing finger gestures & for creating the mapping for the "persona" (avatar) used for FaceTime & such.

Also, in another Good Morning America interview (at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmOC7dK3rc0) Cook was asked about AI & talked about it at some length. I think some of that too is relevant to this topic, specifically about the appropriate uses & misuses of AI.

 

[v_kyr]

3 hours ago, R C-R said:

I am not sure who from Apple mentioned it but AI (as I understand it in the form of neural networks) was used both for training the OS on recognizing finger gestures & for creating the mapping for the "persona" (avatar) used for FaceTime & such.

They have their own dev kits for all that stuff for more modern MacOS versions (than I use) ...

• Machine Lerning
• Core ML Overview

... also their upcomming product (which we talked about a lot above) will probably also make a lot of use of their latest ...

• ARKIT version then

3 hours ago, R C-R said:

Also, in another Good Morning America interview ...

I don't tend to see (or know that one), but instead I read sometimes specific news here instead ...

• Apple and the AI: Tim Cook continues to urge caution  (EN Google translation)
• Apple und die KI: Tim Cook mahnt weiter zur Vorsicht  (DE org article)
• The Mac & i DE site  ...I sometimes tend to quickly look over about Apple related IT-themes & news

... and some others, as there are a bunch of other related sites too, like MacRumors, 9to5Mac  ... and so on ..., the net is full of such stuff!

[R C-R]

9 minutes ago, v_kyr said:

I don't tend to see (or know that one), but instead I read sometimes specific news here instead ...

FWIW, the first link you mentioned includes several quotes from the GMA interview (& a link to it as well).

[v_kyr]

9 minutes ago, R C-R said:

FWIW, the first link you mentioned includes several quotes from the GMA interview (& a link to it as well).

Why the hell did the germans called that in the article  "the US broadcaster ABC" when it's instead called GMA ??? - However, I either way had just read the short summary there, since as always, have to do some other tasks too beside.

[R C-R]

2 minutes ago, v_kyr said:

Why the hell did the germans called that in the article  "the US broadcaster ABC" when it's instead called GMA ???

ABC (short for American Broadcasting Company) is the US TV network that owns & airs the TV show Good Morning America, GMA for short.

[v_kyr]

2 minutes ago, R C-R said:

ABC (short for American Broadcasting Company) is the US TV network that owns & airs the TV show Good Morning America, GMA for short.

Ah Ok, finally learned something new! - Though honestly I don't have any clues about american TV channels and the like, as I just know slightly that CNN channel and that's it.

[R C-R]

24 minutes ago, v_kyr said:

Though honestly I don't have any clues about american TV channels and the like, as I just know slightly that CNN channel and that's it.

It's very complicated. There are 5 major OTA (over the air) US broadcasters, plus a bunch of minor ones. Coverage varies by market so some cities & towns have many of them & others a lot less. However, CNN is not an OTA broadcaster.

[dim p]

On 6/13/2023 at 10:18 AM, MandM said:

I know the thread has now veered off from AI to Apple's latest gadget (possibly as important as the launch of the iPhone, we'll see) but I'd just like to add something on AI and photo editing from the perspective of a basic user.

Forget generating elephants in space suits and liquidating entire crowds from St. Peter's Square...

I think a piece of software that can offer people with basic skills like me the following:

• Easy background replacement (especially if shot on a green screen or neutral background)
• Easy outcropping to fix minor problems with framing
• Easy facial feature correction (face-aware warp, etc., eyes, mouth, reshaping, etc.)
• Easy removal of problematic elements (no, not everyone in St. Peter's Square, just maybe a dog or plant or whatever)
• Easy replacement of maybe patterns, textures, hair colors, etc.

will be successful in attracting what you might call semi-skilled amateurs, which is, I would suspect, not a small market.

I'm very comfortable with Affinity Photo now after having used it for 18 months or so, but I am now changing to Mac and seriously weighing up a PS sub or buying Affinity on all platforms for the (effectively) low package price they offer the suite at. Maybe I'll try both approaches.

But the time-saving aspect of PS for my hobbyist interests is very tempting. In some ways, it's refreshing AP doesn't hold your hand like PS does. You learn a lot. But the trouble is, as others have said, once you have learned how to remove a background perfectly, it does not get that much faster, just better. For us hobbyists, who are spending our time on photo editing but getting no money for doing so, saving time is going to be a key factor. (The permanent sub to PS is of course a pain but then again, PS is now effectively server-powered photo editing, so it actually makes more sense than before.)

Just my $0.02.

Right on! I came to this thread googling Affinity Photo AI. I have been using Affinity Designer, Photo, Publisher professionally since each initial beta came out, and so far (since 2014) I have loved it, and also my industry and my previous office have started to adopt Affinity widely. It's no secret that some of Serif's biggest corporate clients are architecture firms. 

The new generative fill and edit though has made me promptly download all the Adobe Creative cloud crap and download the new Adobe Photoshop Beta to try it out and, I might actually need to subscribe to Adobe just to use the generative fill feature.

Here is an example of a very quick and dirty editing in Photoshop Beta with AI of adding elements to a generated image. This is a game changer as it allows much quciker post-production with less time spent.

Needless to say, as many have already mentioned that this will quickly become an essential feature, so hoping it makes it in Affinity Photo in 2.x instead of waiting another 5 or more years when it will land in 3.x

[v_kyr]

Related to the overall AI hype everywhere nowadays, I've just saw this Nikon campain ... 😉
 

(Natural Intelligence - Nikon makes fun of AI images)

• Nikon Stands up against AI in the Name of Nature

Some comment from a photomagazine related site to that ...

Quote

The campaign clearly shows that a company like Nikon is worried about the sales of cameras and accessories when suddenly everyone can create interesting pictures with AI. At least in the professional field, Nikon has little to fear for a long time if it stays the course with free updates for the firmware. The fourth main version for the Z 9 was released this week, which enables completely new working techniques when using high-end cameras - including the focus trap.

 

[LuBre]

On 5/24/2023 at 2:20 PM, Lee_T said:

Hi WMax70,

There are no plans for this at present.

Lee

 

As a loyal customer I feel the need to give my feedback.

This AI thing is already changing everything and it's going to be an absolute "must have", sooner than later.

If you don't plan to do something about it, even some kind of "basic" AI tool, it will be extremely hard to stick to Affinity. The technology/working quality of life given by the new Adobe plugin is just too good to be ignored. It's not perfect, it's not impeccable. Not yet. But it already gives a HUGE boost to productivity.

Right now Adobe's AI tools is something that I would already pay for.

Please, don't drop the ball on the new AI era. It would be a huge mistake, in my opinion.

 

[LuBre]

Quote

For us hobbyists, who are spending our time on photo editing but getting no money for doing so, saving time is going to be a key factor.

It will be even more important for professionals (money involved). Less time to do the same job means I can do more in the same time, getting even more money from more clients.

The AI revolution is going to hit everyone. Affinity will be forced to make a choice, sooner or later. Or it will be the next Kodak, in my personal opinion. Becuse having the AI content filler is an absolute game changer. It will come a time when customers will expect to see this tool in any photo editing tool. It's just too good to be ignored... And it suddenly made the Adobe supscription a lot, really a lot more appealing.

[R C-R]

1 minute ago, LuBre said:

It will be even more important for professionals (money involved). Less time to do the same job means I can do more in the same time, getting even more money from more clients.

But if just about anybody can use these AI powered apps to get the same results, won't that mean most clients will just shop around for the lowest price, or maybe just do it themselves in house?

[LuBre]

19 minutes ago, R C-R said:

But if just about anybody can use these AI powered apps to get the same results, won't that mean most clients will just shop around for the lowest price, or maybe just do it themselves in house?

 

That won't be an issue. AI is just a tool, it will not become a profession/human replacement. Just like ChatGPT will never "replace" developers and copywriters.

The "in house" solution will never happen either. Companies always hire professionals to do the job. I could list an endless amount of "profession killer" tools that came out in the past 20 years in the webdev field. Stuff like "build your company website in 5 minutes for $99" or "host your ultimate app for $1/month". These solutions have always been around but nobody got harmed and companies very rarely even consider them. If anything, they just work for cheap clients that you better never meet in your life.

To make some weird analogy, right now we're in a phase between film photography and digital photography. Back when digital stuff was still in its early stage, nobody would have ever imagined that film photography was already doomed. The AI era has begun and I think that any company which has something to do with it... Should do their best to board the train. Affinity had nothing to deal with... Until Adobe popped out their tool. And they are not the only ones (Photopea, which is free, is following the same road). It's still in its eartly stage, of course. But it's going fast. Very fast.

I don't like to be boring, I know sometimes I am, but this is just to give you an insight.

I am a web developer, I designe and code websites and apps. You cannot imagine how ChatGPT and Midjourney changed my workflow for the better. It's just a night and day upgrade, no question about it. You still need to be skilled if you want to achieve great results, of course. You don't watch Netflix while ChatGPT does everything for you. But it does a lot, really a lot. The same goes for Midjourney.

These are the new tools of the modern digital era. I think that Affinity should seriously consider following the trend, because it's already a reality in many working fields and it's not going away.

[R C-R]

17 minutes ago, LuBre said:

That won't be an issue.

Of course it will. If someone can undercut your prices & deliver the same results, clients would be foolish not to go with the lowest bid.

[LuBre]

Quote

Of course it will. If someone can undercut your prices & deliver the same results, clients would be foolish not to go with the lowest bid.

 

As said above, AI is no different than any other tool that enhanches productivity. There will be no sudden undercuts out of the blue, it's not going to work like that. Lowest bids and cheap labor have been a reality since forever, who cares. Valuable clients are able to value your skills and your professionality, that's no the issue at all.

Being a coder I can give you my feedback, which is not far from any designer/editor/copywriter feedback anyways.

Coding in 2023 isn't cheaper than before, just because we've got tons of utilities, apps and cool things to do our job faster than ever. We get paid as good as we've always been paid. The only difference is that todayI have so many useful and powerful tools that I can code a website in half a day instead of a full week. But I still get paid for what I ask, nobody questions as long as I deliver a good product. The only difference is that $2K for a website that requires half a day is better than getting the same money for a full week of work. The client gets his website sooner, I get my money for less working hours. It's a win-win.

AI let's us work better and faster, we can be more productive and we can focus on other tasks. Or even chill and relax more often, if we need it. We will still have our jobs, we will still get paid well, we will still have the same competition as we've always had. We're just evolving, that's it.

[R C-R]

9 minutes ago, LuBre said:

There will be no sudden undercuts out of the blue, it's not going to work like that.

It won't be sudden but inevitably it will happen because if one person can churn out dozens of results clients will find acceptable in very little time, they can charge less for each one & others will have to follow suit or be driven out of the market.

[LuBre]

1 minute ago, R C-R said:

It won't be sudden but inevitably it will happen because if one person can churn out dozens of results clients will find acceptable in very little time, they can charge less for each one & others will have to follow suit or be driven out of the market.

 

I disagree. It will not happen at all. Things will change for sure and we will adapt to use the new tools instead of living in a cave with our precious "old trusted tools". Photoshop has already introduced tons of quality of life and "productivity booster" features over the past years. This AI thing isn't anything different: it's yet another productivity booster. I mean, if you think about it, even the basic "content aware fill" tool is a huge boost to productivity. Or the correction pen tool, which you can use to fix an image in a second with zero effort, instead of spending 2 hours editing pixel by pixel. Those tools already exist and they dramaticaly improve productivity and speed. But nobody had an issue with them, nor prices changed or crushed the market.

Again: I've been working as a developer since 1998 and you wouldn't imagine how many times I've been told "Hey, this new technology came out, you're doomed, it will replace coding and coders". People told me "you will never sell an ecommerce website anymore, people use Shopify, Etsy, Wix, whatever". Nothing could be further from the truth, to be honest.

I hope Affinity will embrace the new AI era. I believe this is a train you can't skip.

[R C-R]

Just now, LuBre said:

I disagree. It will not happen at all.

If one of your competitors using the same tools as you is willing to charge less & can provide the same quality of work, how would you compete with that?