AffinityMakesMeWonder Posted May 1, 2023 Share Posted May 1, 2023 Hi there! Bought an camera 2019 that has not been much used (Sony RX-100 mark VI), but, yesterday I loaded it and took some bracketing pictures just to test HDR Merge into Affinity Photo 2.10 17.89. Had a serie of nine pictures to test, but, Photo 2.10 is crashing after the pictures is loaded… Tested same nine pictures into Affinity Photo 2.04 and that works flawless - the same happened with my Macbook Pro, working fine in 2.10 beta… Strange thing number two: on both 2.04 (iPad) and Mac 2.10 this HDR merge endresult have a strange vignette in all corners? Is that a bug also? Non of the nine sourcepictures has this vignetts… See attach endresult and one of the sourcefiles… DSC00983.ARW Quote Happy amateur that playing around with the Affinity Suite - really love typograhics, photographing, colors & forms, AND, old Synthesizers! Macbook Pro 16” M1 2021 connected to an 32” curved 5K external display, iPad Pro 12.9” M1 2021, iPad Pro 10.5” A10X 2017, iMac 27” 5K/i7 late 2015… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hangman Posted May 1, 2023 Share Posted May 1, 2023 Re Affinity Photo 2.1.0 (1781) crashing would you be happy to zip up the nine source photo's and upload them so we can take a look? Adding a checkmark in the Lens Correction dialogue will remove the vignette... Quote Affinity Designer 2.4.2 | Affinity Photo 2.4.2 | Affinity Publisher 2.4.2 Affinity Designer Beta 2.5.0 (2415) | Affinity Photo Beta 2.5.0 (2415) | Affinity Publisher Beta 2.5.0 (2415) Affinity Designer 1.7.3 | Affinity Photo 1.7.3 | Affinity Publisher 1.10.8 MacBook Pro 16GB, macOS Monterey 12.7.4, Magic Mouse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AffinityMakesMeWonder Posted May 1, 2023 Author Share Posted May 1, 2023 2 hours ago, Hangman said: Re Affinity Photo 2.1.0 (1781) crashing would you be happy to zip up the nine source photo's and upload them so we can take a look? Adding a checkmark in the Lens Correction dialogue will remove the vignette... @Hangman thanks for the tips on lens correction - I will test this when I arrive at home this evening… But, this problem with vignetting only occur in the beta versions of Affinity Photo… Sending an zip archive with the nine RAW-files as soon I can… Archive.zip Quote Happy amateur that playing around with the Affinity Suite - really love typograhics, photographing, colors & forms, AND, old Synthesizers! Macbook Pro 16” M1 2021 connected to an 32” curved 5K external display, iPad Pro 12.9” M1 2021, iPad Pro 10.5” A10X 2017, iMac 27” 5K/i7 late 2015… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hangman Posted May 2, 2023 Share Posted May 2, 2023 15 hours ago, AffinityMakesMeSmile said: But, this problem with vignetting only occur in the beta versions of Affinity Photo… I see the vignetting in v1.7.3, v2.0.4 and the current Beta 2.1.0 (1781). The lens profile isn't available in v1.7.3 but in v2.0.4 and the current Beta simply adding a checkmark in the Lens Profile box under Lens Correction removes the vignette... I've tested your files in v1.7.3, v2.0.4 and the current Beta 2.1.0 (1781) with zero crashes so I'm slightly unsure why you're experiencing a crash... HDR Merge.mp4 Quote Affinity Designer 2.4.2 | Affinity Photo 2.4.2 | Affinity Publisher 2.4.2 Affinity Designer Beta 2.5.0 (2415) | Affinity Photo Beta 2.5.0 (2415) | Affinity Publisher Beta 2.5.0 (2415) Affinity Designer 1.7.3 | Affinity Photo 1.7.3 | Affinity Publisher 1.10.8 MacBook Pro 16GB, macOS Monterey 12.7.4, Magic Mouse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AffinityMakesMeWonder Posted May 2, 2023 Author Share Posted May 2, 2023 27 minutes ago, Hangman said: I see the vignetting in v1.7.3, v2.0.4 and the current Beta 2.1.0 (1781). The lens profile isn't available in v1.7.3 but in v2.0.4 and the current Beta simply adding a checkmark in the Lens Profile box under Lens Correction removes the vignette... I've tested your files in v1.7.3, v2.0.4 and the current Beta 2.1.0 (1781) with zero crashes so I'm slightly unsure why you're experiencing a crash... HDR Merge.mp4 2.69 MB · 1 download Thanks @Hangman for testing this… The crashing is only in my iPad Pro 12.9” M1, not seen in both Mac or Windowsversions of Photo 2.10 beta 1789… Have you tested this raw-files with an iPad, or, just in desktop versions? Quote Happy amateur that playing around with the Affinity Suite - really love typograhics, photographing, colors & forms, AND, old Synthesizers! Macbook Pro 16” M1 2021 connected to an 32” curved 5K external display, iPad Pro 12.9” M1 2021, iPad Pro 10.5” A10X 2017, iMac 27” 5K/i7 late 2015… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hangman Posted May 2, 2023 Share Posted May 2, 2023 11 minutes ago, AffinityMakesMeSmile said: Have you tested this raw-files with an iPad, or, just in desktop versions? Only on Desktop as I don't currently have access to an iPad though I'm sure someone else can test on an iPad to see if they experience the same issue and report back... AffinityMakesMeWonder 1 Quote Affinity Designer 2.4.2 | Affinity Photo 2.4.2 | Affinity Publisher 2.4.2 Affinity Designer Beta 2.5.0 (2415) | Affinity Photo Beta 2.5.0 (2415) | Affinity Publisher Beta 2.5.0 (2415) Affinity Designer 1.7.3 | Affinity Photo 1.7.3 | Affinity Publisher 1.10.8 MacBook Pro 16GB, macOS Monterey 12.7.4, Magic Mouse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walt.farrell Posted May 2, 2023 Share Posted May 2, 2023 In general, I don't think you should do an HDR merge from RAW image files. You should Develop them (perhaps to TIFF), and then run the HDR merge using the TIFF files. I think that's the only way to get the full Develop processing, including the Develop Assistant settings. (Of course, it shouldn't crash in any case. But unless you have your Develop Assistant settings all turned off, Developing to TIFF before the merge should give better results.) Quote -- Walt Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases PC: Desktop: Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 Laptop: Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU. iPad: iPad Pro M1, 12.9": iPadOS 17.4.1, Apple Pencil 2, Magic Keyboard Mac: 2023 M2 MacBook Air 15", 16GB memory, macOS Sonoma 14.4.1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AffinityMakesMeWonder Posted May 2, 2023 Author Share Posted May 2, 2023 4 minutes ago, walt.farrell said: In general, I don't think you should do an HDR merge from RAW image files. You should Develop them (perhaps to TIFF), and then run the HDR merge using the TIFF files. I think that's the only way to get the full Develop processing, including the Develop Assistant settings. (Of course, it shouldn't crash in any case. But unless you have your Develop Assistant settings all turned off, Developing to TIFF before the merge should give better results.) Walt, more testing done - crashing with HDR Merge only concern M1 iPads, not iPads with A-cpu:s… Have tried reinstall Photo 2.10 beta 17.81, but, with same crash on my M1 iPad Pro… The strange thing with the vignetts that occur in the end result when I Merge in my Mac, non of the nine source files has sign of vignett? So, to summarize, the M1 iPad Pro is the problem in 2.10 17.81 - just working fine in v2.04 and v1.92 on the same iPad Pro M1… Quote Happy amateur that playing around with the Affinity Suite - really love typograhics, photographing, colors & forms, AND, old Synthesizers! Macbook Pro 16” M1 2021 connected to an 32” curved 5K external display, iPad Pro 12.9” M1 2021, iPad Pro 10.5” A10X 2017, iMac 27” 5K/i7 late 2015… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AffinityMakesMeWonder Posted May 2, 2023 Author Share Posted May 2, 2023 22 minutes ago, walt.farrell said: In general, I don't think you should do an HDR merge from RAW image files. You should Develop them (perhaps to TIFF), and then run the HDR merge using the TIFF files. I think that's the only way to get the full Develop processing, including the Develop Assistant settings. (Of course, it shouldn't crash in any case. But unless you have your Develop Assistant settings all turned off, Developing to TIFF before the merge should give better results.) Walt, tried your suggestion and convert the nine RAW-files to Tiff in Photo 2.10 17.81, but, then the next bug occurs - all nine Tiff-files got super underexposed, totally worthless to use in an HDR Merge… Tried the same Batch job from RAW (.ARW) to Tiff in Photo 2.04, and, all nine sourcefiles get the right exposure… Took the nine Tiff-files from Photo 2.04 into 2.10 17.81 and tried HDR Merge - Voila, working fine! But, the annoying vignetting stills occur (not present on the original files)… So, there’s two bugs in Photo 2.10 build 19.81 (iPad M1/M2) - HDR Merge from rawfiles and Batch Job from rawfiles to both Tiff and JPG… Quote Happy amateur that playing around with the Affinity Suite - really love typograhics, photographing, colors & forms, AND, old Synthesizers! Macbook Pro 16” M1 2021 connected to an 32” curved 5K external display, iPad Pro 12.9” M1 2021, iPad Pro 10.5” A10X 2017, iMac 27” 5K/i7 late 2015… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hangman Posted May 2, 2023 Share Posted May 2, 2023 22 minutes ago, walt.farrell said: In general, I don't think you should do an HDR merge from RAW image files. You should Develop them (perhaps to TIFF), and then run the HDR merge using the TIFF files. Hi @walt.farrell, I'm curious as to why you wouldn't do an HDR merge using RAW files, surely that is exactly what you would want to do to preserve the full dynamic range of data captured from your camera’s sensor. Once you convert to any other format, e.g., to .tiff files you will lose dynamic range. Both Lightroom and Capture One use RAW files for HDR Merge and Affinity Photo is clearly designed to use them too so just wanting to understand your thinking... 15 minutes ago, AffinityMakesMeSmile said: I think that's the only way to get the full Develop processing, including the Develop Assistant settings. As far as I know using RAW files for an HDR Merge uses the Develop Assistant settings... Quote Affinity Designer 2.4.2 | Affinity Photo 2.4.2 | Affinity Publisher 2.4.2 Affinity Designer Beta 2.5.0 (2415) | Affinity Photo Beta 2.5.0 (2415) | Affinity Publisher Beta 2.5.0 (2415) Affinity Designer 1.7.3 | Affinity Photo 1.7.3 | Affinity Publisher 1.10.8 MacBook Pro 16GB, macOS Monterey 12.7.4, Magic Mouse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AffinityMakesMeWonder Posted May 2, 2023 Author Share Posted May 2, 2023 3 minutes ago, Hangman said: Hi @walt.farrell, I'm curious as to why you wouldn't do an HDR merge using RAW files, surely that is exactly what you would want to do to preserve the full dynamic range of data captured from your camera’s sensor. Once you convert to any other format, e.g., to .tiff files you will lose dynamic range. Both Lightroom and Capture One use RAW files for HDR Merge and Affinity Photo is clearly designed to use them too so just wanting to understand your thinking... As far as I know using RAW files for an HDR Merge uses the Develop Assistant settings... @Hangman @walt.farrell I don’t see any ‘Develop Assistans settings’ on the iPad version of Affinity Photo… Quote Happy amateur that playing around with the Affinity Suite - really love typograhics, photographing, colors & forms, AND, old Synthesizers! Macbook Pro 16” M1 2021 connected to an 32” curved 5K external display, iPad Pro 12.9” M1 2021, iPad Pro 10.5” A10X 2017, iMac 27” 5K/i7 late 2015… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hangman Posted May 2, 2023 Share Posted May 2, 2023 16 minutes ago, AffinityMakesMeSmile said: @Hangman @walt.farrell I don’t see any ‘Develop Assistans settings’ on the iPad version of Affinity Photo… From the Document menu, select Assistant and select options from the relevant pop-up menu. From the Home screen's Preferences (General tab), tap Assistant Options and select options. Quote Affinity Designer 2.4.2 | Affinity Photo 2.4.2 | Affinity Publisher 2.4.2 Affinity Designer Beta 2.5.0 (2415) | Affinity Photo Beta 2.5.0 (2415) | Affinity Publisher Beta 2.5.0 (2415) Affinity Designer 1.7.3 | Affinity Photo 1.7.3 | Affinity Publisher 1.10.8 MacBook Pro 16GB, macOS Monterey 12.7.4, Magic Mouse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AffinityMakesMeWonder Posted May 2, 2023 Author Share Posted May 2, 2023 1 minute ago, Hangman said: From the Document menu, select Assistant and select options from the relevant pop-up menu. From the Home screen's Preferences (General tab), tap Assistant Options and select options. Still, can’t find anything there concering Developing… It must be Desktop only…? Quote Happy amateur that playing around with the Affinity Suite - really love typograhics, photographing, colors & forms, AND, old Synthesizers! Macbook Pro 16” M1 2021 connected to an 32” curved 5K external display, iPad Pro 12.9” M1 2021, iPad Pro 10.5” A10X 2017, iMac 27” 5K/i7 late 2015… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hangman Posted May 2, 2023 Share Posted May 2, 2023 14 minutes ago, AffinityMakesMeSmile said: Still, can’t find anything there concering Developing… It must be Desktop only…? That was from the Affinity Photo 2 iPad help file so it should be there... Quote Affinity Designer 2.4.2 | Affinity Photo 2.4.2 | Affinity Publisher 2.4.2 Affinity Designer Beta 2.5.0 (2415) | Affinity Photo Beta 2.5.0 (2415) | Affinity Publisher Beta 2.5.0 (2415) Affinity Designer 1.7.3 | Affinity Photo 1.7.3 | Affinity Publisher 1.10.8 MacBook Pro 16GB, macOS Monterey 12.7.4, Magic Mouse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AffinityMakesMeWonder Posted May 2, 2023 Author Share Posted May 2, 2023 13 minutes ago, Hangman said: That was from the Affinity Photo 2 iPad help file so it should be there... What are we looking after? See screenshot… Quote Happy amateur that playing around with the Affinity Suite - really love typograhics, photographing, colors & forms, AND, old Synthesizers! Macbook Pro 16” M1 2021 connected to an 32” curved 5K external display, iPad Pro 12.9” M1 2021, iPad Pro 10.5” A10X 2017, iMac 27” 5K/i7 late 2015… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hangman Posted May 2, 2023 Share Posted May 2, 2023 It's the options towards the bottom though there appears to be no Default Lens Profile or Noise Reduction options for iPad, though Noise Reduction should be an HDR Merge option... AffinityMakesMeWonder 1 Quote Affinity Designer 2.4.2 | Affinity Photo 2.4.2 | Affinity Publisher 2.4.2 Affinity Designer Beta 2.5.0 (2415) | Affinity Photo Beta 2.5.0 (2415) | Affinity Publisher Beta 2.5.0 (2415) Affinity Designer 1.7.3 | Affinity Photo 1.7.3 | Affinity Publisher 1.10.8 MacBook Pro 16GB, macOS Monterey 12.7.4, Magic Mouse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walt.farrell Posted May 2, 2023 Share Posted May 2, 2023 3 hours ago, Hangman said: I'm curious as to why you wouldn't do an HDR merge using RAW files, surely that is exactly what you would want to do to preserve the full dynamic range of data captured from your camera’s sensor. Once you convert to any other format, e.g., to .tiff files you will lose dynamic range If you Develop to RGB-32 you don't lose anything. Even developing to RGB-16 you shouldn't lose any data, as far as I know, because the camera sensor only provides 10-14 bits of data. But the reason for my recommendation: as far as I know, only File > Open or New Batch Job or one more, possibly the Astrophotography functions, use the Develop Assistant settings. No other functions where you can use RAW images use those functions, as far as I know. Quote -- Walt Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases PC: Desktop: Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 Laptop: Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU. iPad: iPad Pro M1, 12.9": iPadOS 17.4.1, Apple Pencil 2, Magic Keyboard Mac: 2023 M2 MacBook Air 15", 16GB memory, macOS Sonoma 14.4.1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hangman Posted May 2, 2023 Share Posted May 2, 2023 2 hours ago, walt.farrell said: If you Develop to RGB-32 you don't lose anything. Even developing to RGB-16 you shouldn't lose any data, as far as I know, because the camera sensor only provides 10-14 bits of data. The downside perhaps of going down the TIFF route is the amount of pre-processing required, together with file size for no obvious advantage vs using RAW files straight out of camera... A quick test of all three below with no post processing... The RAW files still have the edge when it comes to shadow and highlight detail with this particular image which can only really be seen when zooming in to specific parts of the original merged files... Uncompressed 16 Bit Tiff Files - File Size Per Image - 121.1 MB Uncompressed 32 Bit Tiff Files - File Size Per Image - 322.9 MB RAW Files - File Size Per Image - 21.2 MB AffinityMakesMeWonder 1 Quote Affinity Designer 2.4.2 | Affinity Photo 2.4.2 | Affinity Publisher 2.4.2 Affinity Designer Beta 2.5.0 (2415) | Affinity Photo Beta 2.5.0 (2415) | Affinity Publisher Beta 2.5.0 (2415) Affinity Designer 1.7.3 | Affinity Photo 1.7.3 | Affinity Publisher 1.10.8 MacBook Pro 16GB, macOS Monterey 12.7.4, Magic Mouse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walt.farrell Posted May 2, 2023 Share Posted May 2, 2023 31 minutes ago, Hangman said: A quick test of all three below with no post processing... The RAW files still have the edge when it comes to shadow and highlight detail with this particular image which can only really be seen when zooming in to specific parts of the original merged files... The real test would be doing the HDR merge for all 3 scenarios. I don't think that's what you did, but I could be wrong. (Additionally, the results will depend on whether you typically have any options enabled in the Develop Assistant Settings, or not.) Quote -- Walt Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases PC: Desktop: Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 Laptop: Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU. iPad: iPad Pro M1, 12.9": iPadOS 17.4.1, Apple Pencil 2, Magic Keyboard Mac: 2023 M2 MacBook Air 15", 16GB memory, macOS Sonoma 14.4.1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hangman Posted May 2, 2023 Share Posted May 2, 2023 1 minute ago, walt.farrell said: The real test would be doing the HDR merge for all 3 scenarios. I don't think that's what you did, but I could be wrong. That's exactly what I did and those are the results above... all three using the exact same settings... AffinityMakesMeWonder 1 Quote Affinity Designer 2.4.2 | Affinity Photo 2.4.2 | Affinity Publisher 2.4.2 Affinity Designer Beta 2.5.0 (2415) | Affinity Photo Beta 2.5.0 (2415) | Affinity Publisher Beta 2.5.0 (2415) Affinity Designer 1.7.3 | Affinity Photo 1.7.3 | Affinity Publisher 1.10.8 MacBook Pro 16GB, macOS Monterey 12.7.4, Magic Mouse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walt.farrell Posted May 2, 2023 Share Posted May 2, 2023 3 minutes ago, Hangman said: That's exactly what I did and those are the results above... all three using the exact same settings... Thanks. And what Develop Assistant settings did you have? Quote -- Walt Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases PC: Desktop: Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 Laptop: Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU. iPad: iPad Pro M1, 12.9": iPadOS 17.4.1, Apple Pencil 2, Magic Keyboard Mac: 2023 M2 MacBook Air 15", 16GB memory, macOS Sonoma 14.4.1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hangman Posted May 2, 2023 Share Posted May 2, 2023 1 hour ago, walt.farrell said: Thanks. And what Develop Assistant settings did you have? walt.farrell 1 Quote Affinity Designer 2.4.2 | Affinity Photo 2.4.2 | Affinity Publisher 2.4.2 Affinity Designer Beta 2.5.0 (2415) | Affinity Photo Beta 2.5.0 (2415) | Affinity Publisher Beta 2.5.0 (2415) Affinity Designer 1.7.3 | Affinity Photo 1.7.3 | Affinity Publisher 1.10.8 MacBook Pro 16GB, macOS Monterey 12.7.4, Magic Mouse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff EmT Posted May 3, 2023 Staff Share Posted May 3, 2023 23 hours ago, AffinityMakesMeSmile said: The crashing is only in my iPad Pro 12.9” M1, not seen in both Mac or Windowsversions of Photo 2.10 beta 1789 Hi @AffinityMakesMeSmile I can't replicate the crash on an M1 iPad Pro or any other iPads, could you send me a screen recording of this in action so we can see the step-by-step process to replicate the crash? Could you also provide your crash report. Quote I am currently Out of Office, please tag @Affinity Info Bot in your replies for another member of QA to see. How to format a bug report | List of V2 FAQ's | Affinity Photo (V2) Tutorials | Affinity Designer (V2) Tutorials | Affinity Publisher (V2) Tutorials Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AffinityMakesMeWonder Posted May 3, 2023 Author Share Posted May 3, 2023 52 minutes ago, EmT said: Hi @AffinityMakesMeSmile I can't replicate the crash on an M1 iPad Pro or any other iPads, could you send me a screen recording of this in action so we can see the step-by-step process to replicate the crash? Could you also provide your crash report. OK - thanks for testing this… Here is a screenrecording and a crashreport attached (although I’m unsure which file to send)… RPReplay_Final1683109531.mp4 Photo iPad Beta.wakeups_resource-2023-05-03-121924.ips Quote Happy amateur that playing around with the Affinity Suite - really love typograhics, photographing, colors & forms, AND, old Synthesizers! Macbook Pro 16” M1 2021 connected to an 32” curved 5K external display, iPad Pro 12.9” M1 2021, iPad Pro 10.5” A10X 2017, iMac 27” 5K/i7 late 2015… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff EmT Posted May 3, 2023 Staff Share Posted May 3, 2023 @AffinityMakesMeSmile The .ips file you are looking for should be named Photo iPad Beta-YEAR-MONTH-DATE-TIME.ips The red text is for this example only and the actual file will show the date and time of the crash. Quote I am currently Out of Office, please tag @Affinity Info Bot in your replies for another member of QA to see. How to format a bug report | List of V2 FAQ's | Affinity Photo (V2) Tutorials | Affinity Designer (V2) Tutorials | Affinity Publisher (V2) Tutorials Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.