Guides and bounding boxes

[jackamus]

Attached is a file that illustrates the problem I have been moaning to Serif about for years. Object Bounding boxes that disappear as soon as you drag a guide to try and line up with one of the handles.

I want to position object B centered between A and C. The way I would do this is to drag a vertical guide to the centre of A then another guide to the centre of C and then group A and C and drag another guide to the group centre and centre B on it. But I can't do it accurately because the bounding boxes keep disappearing. There's no good telling me to fiddle with the snapping feature as there could be other objects, out of sight, that B could snap to. I cannot see why appeals to Serif go ignored for something that is so obvious and intuitively needed. Why must bounding boxes disappear when dragging guides? It serves no purpose whatsoever.

Guides.afdesign

[lepr]

12 minutes ago, jackamus said:

There's no good telling me to fiddle with the snapping feature as there could be other objects, out of sight, that B could snap to.

This isn't to invalidate your complaint, but to help you get work done - do fiddle with snapping. Snapping can be restricted to observe only specific objects by setting snapping to Candidates List mode - it even lets you specify the maximum number of candidates.

Forget about guides for a moment. Temporarily enable 'gaps and sizes' in the snapping options, then the app will help you snap the B circle so there are equal gaps between A and B circles and B and C circles.

[jackamus]

Thank you for that and it worked but it means that I have nearly all the snapping options open just to try and get something that will allow me to drag a guide to a bounding box handle. Too many snapping option can get in the way of working in a particular way. I understand that having many snapping options is a very helpful feature considering all the different ways people work. However  If bounding boxes didn't disappear when dragging a guide then I or you wouldn't need to choose so many snapping options. Keeping bounding boxes open whilst dragging guides does not compromise or affect anything else as far as I can see! They disappear for less than a second whist dragging a guide so what is so bad about keeping them in view?

[lepr]

OK, let's try to find something you might not moan about.

Select the three circles and investigate the Alignment panel that springs open from the main toolbar. A few clicks in there will align your B circle between the A and C circles. It will take time and experimentation on this first occasion you delve into that, but you'll learn something valuable.

[lepr]

10 minutes ago, jackamus said:

Thank you for that and it worked but it means that I have nearly all the snapping options open just to try and get something that will allow me to drag a guide to a bounding box handle.

You're missing the point and I wonder what you actually did. I was giving a method that completely avoids the use of guides.

[jackamus]

This my whole point! I use alignment a great deal when it is necessary, in my case when I want to space out many objects but not for just three!

What you are suggesting is another workaround. By workaround I mean creating a non-standard methods that is not covered by all the other standard methods.

Tell me what is wrong with having a bounding box remain visible when dragging a guide?

Its not like asking Serif to add some new feature, as in member's suggestions, but simply slightly changing that which already exists. Its not something new!

[jackamus]

6 minutes ago, ,,, said:

You're missing the point and I wonder what you actually did. I was giving a method that completely avoids the use of guides.

I'm not missing the point! I want to use guides, I like guides, I use them all the time. Will it help you to understand if I explain that the kind of drawing I do with AD is Technical Illustration. I'm using a great number of ellipses where I need to move a guide line to the minor and major exes of the ellipses and to line-up various components. See an example of what I mean attached.

Filter.afdesign

[lepr]

8 minutes ago, jackamus said:

I want to use guides, I like guides, I use them all the time.

Who would've thunk it? LOL

Try to be open-minded to alternative solutions to problems. Sometimes you'll find them at least as effective as, and far less cluttering than, using guides for every alignment task.

[jackamus]

I shall keep on moaning because I think it is  worth while. Persistence often pays off!

Do you see how many different ways you are offering just to avoid implementing a very simple feature? In fact I would'nt even call it a feature. Its just something that happens naturally without having to click 2 or 3 different things to get a result.

Why don't we have a straw vote on this by asking everyone who reads this thread to agree or disagree with me?

[GarryP]

1 hour ago, jackamus said:

I want to position object B centered between A and C. The way I would do this is to drag a vertical guide to the centre of A then another guide to the centre of C and then group A and C and drag another guide to the group centre and centre B on it. But I can't do it accurately because the bounding boxes keep disappearing.

I’ve just tried to do what I think you want to do and I can do it already in V2.0.4 – see attached video (where I have simplified things slightly so we can more-easily see what’s happening).
If this isn’t what you want to do, can you explain why it’s not?

[lepr]

Just now, jackamus said:

I shall keep on moaning because I think it is  worth while. Persistence often pays off!

Do you see how many different ways you are offering just to avoid implementing a very simple feature? In fact I would'nt even call it a feature. Its just something that happens naturally without having to click 2 or 3 different things to get a result.

Why don't we have a straw vote on this by asking everyone who reads this thread to agree or disagree with me?

I'm not trying to avoid implementing anything - I don't work for Serif. Just a user who is about to quit wasting time and effort trying to help you get your work done with the apps in their current state.

I don't even disagree with your complaint that bounding boxes disappear when guides are dragged.

Bye.

[jackamus]

6 minutes ago, ,,, said:

Who would've thunk it? LOL

Try to be open-minded to alternative solutions to problems. Sometimes you'll find them at least as effective as, and far less cluttering than, using guides for every alignment task.

Its not me that should be open minded but all those who cannot see what I'm getting at. I'm not asking for something new but asking to leave something visible that is there anyway.

There doesn't need to be an alternative solution each time if the bounding boxes were still visible. Everyone keeps using workarounds that may have to be undone when doing another task. If bounding boxes didn't disappear then there wouldn't be a problem.

[Alfred]

24 minutes ago, N.P.M. said:

This has been pointed out numerous times before but you keep on insisting to make a new post about your pet peeve every month.

 

6 minutes ago, jackamus said:

I shall keep on moaning because I think it is  worth while.

Keep moaning on, by all means, but please stick to one thread.

 

8 minutes ago, jackamus said:

Why don't we have a straw vote on this by asking everyone who reads this thread to agree or disagree with me?

As somebody famous once said: “If voting made any difference it wouldn't be allowed!”

[Alfred]

2 minutes ago, N.P.M. said:

You also got it backwards in respects to how guides are intended to work;
You create a guide and you snap objects to it not the other way around.(like guidelines on paper)

It’s not backwards if you have an object in the correct position and you want to align a guideline to it. (You might well choose to do something similar on paper; e.g. drawing a circle and then drawing a straight line at a tangent to it.)

[jackamus]

5 minutes ago, GarryP said:

I’ve just tried to do what I think you want to do and I can do it already in V2.0.4 – see attached video (where I have simplified things slightly so we can more-easily see what’s happening).
If this isn’t what you want to do, can you explain why it’s not?

Thanks for the video but that is using a lot of actions that are unnecessary. I could do it with fewer cursor movements!

if the bounding boxes didn't disappear what could be quicker than that?

[jackamus]

9 minutes ago, ,,, said:

I'm not trying to avoid implementing anything - I don't work for Serif. Just a user who is about to quit wasting time and effort trying to help you get your work done with the apps in their current state.

I don't even disagree with your complaint that bounding boxes disappear when guides are dragged.

Bye.

If you agree with me why not tell Serif that or is that giving in?

[GarryP]

3 minutes ago, jackamus said:

Thanks for the video but that is using a lot of actions that are unnecessary.

Unless I’m mistaken, I used exactly the actions you said you want to use.
Did I get it wrong, or did you specify your requirements incorrectly?

Note: The 'visible bounding box' is only there for the user to see which layer is selected and display various manipulation handles, it has no input into the snapping process as far as I know.

[jackamus]

2 minutes ago, Alfred said:

It’s not backwards if you have an object in the correct position and you want to align a guideline to it. (You might well choose to do something similar on paper; e.g. drawing a circle and then drawing a straight line at a tangent to it.)

What's drawing tangents that got to do with aligning guides? Isn't that why AD has guides so you can use them as guides that will go where you want them to go?

[jackamus]

1 minute ago, GarryP said:

Unless I’m mistaken, I used exactly the actions you said you want to use.
Did I get it wrong, or did you specify your requirements incorrectly?

Note: The 'visible bounding box' is only there for the user to see which layer is selected and display various manipulation handles, it has no input into the snapping process as far as I know.

The method I used was the way I HAVE to do it because the bounding boxes disappear.

Regarding what you say about bounding boxes is OK but if they didn't disappear that would be a bonus wouldn't it?

[GarryP]

You said:

2 hours ago, jackamus said:

I want to position object B centered between A and C. The way I would do this is to drag a vertical guide to the centre of A then another guide to the centre of C and then group A and C and drag another guide to the group centre and centre B on it.

...but you can already do this, and now you say that it’s not what you want to do.

You said:

2 hours ago, jackamus said:

But I can't do it accurately because the bounding boxes keep disappearing.

...but you can do it accurately as has been shown, without the visible bounding box.

I just don’t know what it is that you want any more.

[jackamus]

3 minutes ago, N.P.M. said:

Switch off snapping and guides will not snap to objects

It clear from the exchanges in this thread that although you think I have a closed mind to alternative suggestions, IMHO, it is like suggesting that if banging your head against a brick wall hurts then move the wall.

I am disappointed that forum members cannot see that something so patently obvious is solved by creating unnecessary moves like moving the wall.

I will quite now as my head is beginning to hurt!

[lepr]

1 minute ago, jackamus said:

If you agree with me why not tell Serif that or is that giving in?

I'm not telling Serif because I don't need to see a bounding box handle to snap a guide to the bounding box. I'd prefer to see developer time spent on something that affects my use of the apps.

[jackamus]

So its OK for you for you to ask Serif for something that probably doesn't currently exist but it is not OK foe me to ask for a change to something that does currently exist!

[GarryP]

jackamus: I’ve just noticed that your forum signature says that you are using V1.10.5 of Designer. Is that true?

[lepr]

18 minutes ago, jackamus said:

So its OK for you for you to ask Serif for something that probably doesn't currently exist but it is not OK foe me to ask for a change to something that does currently exist!

Eh?

LOL

This thread must be approaching locking point.