What affects layer locking?

[smadger]

I'm a grown ass man about to have a temper tantrum like a 4 year old because this is driving me insane. I've spent the last week working on various documents for a personal project, but now whatever I do I cannot unlock layers, everything is screwed

I understand how to lock and unlock a layer, all straightforward, but after saving the files last night and coming back to work on them today something has gone wrong, or I;ve accidentally done something, I just have no idea what it is.

Clicking on the lock on the individual layer, clicking on the lock in the layer menu, righ-click unlock, select-all unlock, going to the main menu > Layers > unlock and unlock all do absolutely nothing. I've created a new blank document, and copied a layer from the "locked" doc in to it, and I still cannot unlock it. I've tried altering "prefer embedded" to "prefer linked", going in to Publisher and unlinking masters (not that there's anything in them to unlock), and moving the file to a completely different machine and still the same.

What the heck am I doing wrong? What other factors affect layer locking that would cause this behaviour. All the turorials I've read and watched simply say "just unlock the layer" and that doesn't work anymore, so if anybody has any other ideas or information I would be eternally grateful for it!!!!

[R C-R]

Are you maybe on a document page trying to change something set in a master page?

[smadger]

Noop. It is a big document, but I've double checked this a couple of ways within the document and even moved a single layer that had nothing to do with master pages out in to an entirely new document in a completely seperate instance of Designer, same problem.

Bizzarely I can click on the unlock layer icon and nothing happens, but it's registered in the undo history as a unlock - there is an entry in the menu to "Undo unlock", but nothing has changed. It's like the layers have corrupted to somehow to be permanently locked, or there's some other setting that I'm just completely blind to.

I really don't want to have to start all over again, especially with the risk of whatever has happened happening again. Sorry to moan, just incredibly frustrated right now.

[walt.farrell]

Please provide a screenshot that includes the Layers panel with the layer visible.

[laurent32]

Maybe a dumb question… could the file be locked by your file system or have permission issues ?

[firstdefence]

You appear to have been thorough and exhausted all the obvious options. Some background info like Windows or Mac, which version of Affinity are you using would certainly help?

Would you be willing to upload the document here or if possible have a MOD provide a private dropbox link so they can take a look, no promises on timescales with the latter though.

[smadger]

Apologies for the delay getting back to you guys, and thank you for the responses it's greatly appreciated, I had to step away for a while and take a break.

To asnwer the question of OS etc, I'm running Win 10 Pro 10.0.19045, Affinity version 2.0.4.1701.

I'm not certain this is what I did, but I have found a way of replicating the same behviour...

1) Create a new layer in a master page in Publisher and place something in it.
2) Lock the layer in the master page.
3) Create a regular page and attach the master page.
4) Expand the master layers in the regular page view and select the locked layer (yes, this is the place where people often get confused)
5) Copy the selected layer
6) Open Designer, create a new doc and paste the layer in

Now no matter what you do with that layer in Designer from that moment on, it is now permanently locked and cannot be edited. This is now the case if layers are moved back in to Publisher as well.

All documents are set to prefer embedded with no content linking. Changing the locked layer in the original Publisher document makes no difference.

So I guess my question now is, how do I break the apparent inheritance of the locked object when the master page no longer exists, in any Affinity application? 

What setting do I need to change to alter this behaviour in future - surely copying a layer to a new document with prefer embedded selected shouldn't be doing this, and it should be classed as a new object, regarldess of page or master page layer.

Edited March 26, 2023 by smadger

[firstdefence]

Tied yourself in knots here lol!

Not sure why you are locking layers on a master page in Affinity Publisher, when any object on a master page will be tied to the master layer anyway and edits can only be done on when the master layer has focus. Logically, if you lock layers on a master page in Affinity Publisher, you cannot unlock a layer from within designer because designer does not have access to Affinity Publishers master page.

Well this is my understanding, although I have been wrong before (Waits for @walt.farrell gulp!) Be gentle wiff me walt, I have a hangover "the like of which, world has never seen the like of which" 🥴

Going to play with Affinity Publisher and prove myself wrong lol!

[firstdefence]

Hells bells, I think I'm right in my understanding.

Solution: Don't lock layers on Master Pages. 

[smadger]

"Not sure why you are locking layers on a master page" - so they don't get moved when editing the master page?

To be clear I'm not locking a master layer whilst working outside of the master page, I agree that would seem odd. I am working on master page with a locked layer inside it, then moving to a regular page and continuing to work on other components in the demo scenario I mentioned. I get your point, but not locking layers on a master page doesn't seem like a particularly practical solution.

Like I say I can't say for certain this is what's happened here - around 50% of the layers I have in a regular page are now locked in this way and I don't recall making those types of layer copy changes in the project -I'm just highlighting that orphaned layers is a reality and layers can become permanantly locked, so I'm asking for a solution to ulnock them in order to try that in my situation. Edit detached doesn't make sense here becuase the layers are not attached to anything, let alone a master page so that menu option doesn't even exist.

If this is what I have done, somehow, then yes it's my mistake, but it kinda bubbles my brain that you can get in to this situation just by copying a layer from Publisher to Designer in the first place - that shouldn't be possible, and if it is there should be ways to get out of it.

[walt.farrell]

If you lock the layer on a Master Page, it will (and should) remain locked on the document pages you apply it to.

Solutions:

1. Don't lock it on the Master Page.
2. Unlock it on the Document Page using Edit Detached.

[smadger]

Thanks, and yes whilst I partially agree with that, I think you're misunderstanding me, and isn't a solution to the (apparently) orphaned layers I now have in my project file.

Just simply locking a layer in a master page is a perfectly valid way of working, and editing detached is perfectly fine, but that's not what I'm doing or the workflow I was showing as an example.

Say I have a document in Pubisher I've built up with all the assets in I need and the document is set to prefer embeded. Now I wish to work on an entirely seperate document in Designer for a different purpose and so using personas in Publisher isn't appropriate here. I craete a new Designer doc and copy a layer from Publisher in to it rather than having to start from scratch. If I forget for any reason to copy content from the master page directly, than new layer that's pasted in to Designer is now locked forever, with no way unlock it, even though it's just a text layer, or a shape layer.

Whilst I agree in this hypothetical situation that I may have gone about things in a peculaiar "non-standard way", I should never be in a position where I cannot edit the layer. There must be a way for a user to clear void parents / detach child obejects that are no longer valid or present. If nothing else, Designer shold stop me from pasting it, flag it as a problem, or offer to alter the document to prefer linked.

Edited March 26, 2023 by smadger

[firstdefence]

24 minutes ago, smadger said:

There must be a way for a user to clear void parents / detach child obejects that are no longer valid or present. If nothing else, Designer shold stop me from pasting it, flag it as a problem, or offer to alter the document to prefer linked.

I agree, Maybe make a request for this in the request/feedback section: https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/forum/52-feedback-suggestions/

[carl123]

23 minutes ago, smadger said:

I should never be in a position where I cannot edit the layer. There must be a way for a user to clear void parents / detach child obejects that are no longer valid or present

Agreed and hopefully there will be a fix/improvement to this in the future

For now, if you find yourself in this situation, grouping the object (by itself) will allow you to move/resize it etc

 

29 minutes ago, smadger said:

or offer to alter the document to prefer linked.

 I don't think this has anything to do with whether an object is embedded or linked, unless I have missed something

[smadger]

1 hour ago, carl123 said:

For now, if you find yourself in this situation, grouping the object (by itself) will allow you to move/resize it etc

Oh my word, thank you so much! It's messy, but it's working and gets me out of this pickle, seriously cannot thank you enough for this - I hope your Sunday is relaxed and rewarding

[walt.farrell]

2 hours ago, smadger said:

Now I wish to work on an entirely seperate document in Designer for a different purpose and so using personas in Publisher isn't appropriate here.

Why isn't it appropriate?

You can create new documents in Publisher. You can even create new documents with Artboards, if you do it from the Designer Persona.

2 hours ago, smadger said:

I craete a new Designer doc and copy a layer from Publisher in to it rather than having to start from scratch. If I forget for any reason to copy content from the master page directly, than new layer that's pasted in to Designer is now locked forever, with no way unlock it, even though it's just a text layer, or a shape layer.

Yes, that is a problem that should be fixed.

You could post that specifically, in the Bugs forum, with a sample .afdesign document you created by that method.

Edit: I'm going to post a bug report about this, as it's actually worse than I expected from your description above. It appears to me that it doesn't matter whether you copy the locked object from the Master Page layer on the document page, or from the Master Page directly. When you copy a locked object from a Publisher Master Page in V2 (or from a document page which inherited it from the master), and paste it anywhere (same document, different document, Designer, Publisher) the object cannot be unlocked.

 

[smadger]

24 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

Why isn't it appropriate?

You can create new documents in Publisher. You can even create new documents with Artboards, if you do it from the Designer Persona.

I've always thought that even though yes, you can switch persona in Publisher to Designer or Photo mode, that there were aspects that weren't fully available if you do that, like switching to Photo and not having Liquify from within there when starting from Publisher, and that you'd also end up with master pages where they wouldn't be needed.

I guess that belief could come from the fact I had Designer and Photo for ages before getting Publisher and my thinking when using Publisher is warped a little.

I'll post about the locking behaviour in the relevant place in a while, and thanks for your help and input with this

[walt.farrell]

2 hours ago, smadger said:

that there were aspects that weren't fully available if you do that, like switching to Photo and not having Liquify

The Photo Persona of Publisher is missing some functions of the Photo Persona in Photo. But the Designer Persona of Publisher is complete.

2 hours ago, smadger said:

I'll post about the locking behaviour in the relevant place in a while, and thanks for your help and input with this

You're welcome. As I mentioned above in my Edit, I'm going to post, as the problem is (I think) worse than you described. If you have a locked object on a Master Page, and you copy it either directly or from a document page, and you paste it anywhere (same document, or different document, using Desiner or Publisher) it cannot be unlocked.

Reported: