Affinity Photo - A document made entirely of linked images is still over 120mb?

[Alex_M]

Hi,

Why is my document over 120mb when it's made entirely of linked images?

[MikeTO]

Hi Alex. Try these and let us know if they help.

1. Ensure File > Save History with Document is unselected. If it's selected, turn it off and choose Save As. Is the new document smaller?
2. Open the document and Save As. Is the new document smaller?
3. Using the Resource Manager, select both of the resources, embed them, and then link them again. Now choose Save As. Is the new document smaller?

Good luck

[Alex_M]

Thanks for the suggestions, @MikeTO. I tried them all, but unfortunately none of them helped. It's still the exact same size - 126mb.

[MikeTO]

In that case I think you'd need to share the file for somebody to review. If you can't share it here publicly then perhaps Serif will provide a dropbox link, unless they or somebody else has more suggestions.

Cheers

[Alex_M]

I don't think I can share the file here publicly. I can do so privately.

[stokerg]

Hi @Alex_M,

Can you upload the file to our Dropbox here and i'll take a look at this.

In trying to replicate the issue, my .afphoto file made up of 2 linked TIFF files and a couple of adjustments, did go above 700 KB.

[Alex_M]

I tried to upload it, but clicking on the link leads to a page that says "This file request has been closed or deleted, or never existed."

[stokerg]

Hi @Alex_M,

21 minutes ago, Alex_M said:

I tried to upload it, but clicking on the link leads to a page that says "This file request has been closed or deleted, or never existed."

Not sure what went wrong with that link, but heres one that definitely works: https://www.dropbox.com/request/O3tm5KPbZQ0BaMC0y7Wz 

[Alex_M]

That one worked. Thanks.

[stokerg]

Hi @Alex_M,

Thanks for uploading the files.

If you view the Snapshot panel (Window>Snapshots) you'll see there is a snapshot, which will be where the bulk of the size is coming from.  Deleting this and then using File>Save As should result in a much smaller file, however there is a bug we have logged where deleting the Snapshot layer doesn't reduce the file size.  I will update that bug report and link back to this thread.

If you recreate that file, don't add a snapshot, you should find it stays much much smaller in size.

[lphilpot]

4 hours ago, stokerg said:

Deleting this and then using File>Save As should result in a much smaller file

@stokerg

I've noticed with the last (two?) 2.1 betas when I delete the snapshot and Save As... there often isn't a reduction. So it's good to know it's being worked on. AP file sizes are pretty bloated by default even with no edits.

A couple of questions:

1. After deleting the snapshot do I need to Save As... to a new file name (this was required at some point in the past) or will the same filename now work?
    
2. A. Are there any plans to give us the option to, by default, not have the snapshot in the first place so this rigamarole can be avoided completely?
   B. If 2A is no, will the macro facility be improved to a point where we can write a macro to automatically do the steps for us?

Thanks.

[stokerg]

19 minutes ago, lphilpot said:

After deleting the snapshot do I need to Save As... to a new file name (this was required at some point in the past) or will the same filename now work?

I would do a Save As as that should trigger the streamlining we do on afphoto files (but not currently).

19 minutes ago, lphilpot said:

A. Are there any plans to give us the option to, by default, not have the snapshot in the first place so this rigamarole can be avoided completely?

Unless I'm mistaken, this is already off, isn't automatic and any Snapshots that appear in the Snapshots panel would have been added by the user. 

I'll raise this with the QA team, as has been pointed by @Old Bruceyou do get a Snapshot layer when opening an image file like a PNG/JPG and there isn't a way to disable that from what i know, other than deleting it manually.

[Old Bruce]

11 minutes ago, lphilpot said:

A. Are there any plans to give us the option to, by default, not have the snapshot in the first place so this rigamarole can be avoided completely?

For what it is worth here on my Mac if I open a raw file there is no snapshot. If it is another format then when I open a PNG for instance there is a Snapshot of the Background layer. If I place a PNG in a new document there is no Snapshot.

[lphilpot]

7 minutes ago, stokerg said:

Unless I'm mistaken, this is already off, isn't automatic and any Snapshots that appear in the Snapshots panel would have been added by the user.

This is after opening a TIFF. I don't use Photo for raw processing, I just open developed TIFFs and always get a snapshot by default. The only time there's not one is when I stitch a pano or build a focus stack. I'm on Windows 11, if that matters.

9 minutes ago, stokerg said:

I would do a Save As as that should trigger the streamlining we do on afphoto files (but not currently).

So you're saying we currently need to Save As but at some point we thereafter won't?

Right now, it's very typical for a ~130MB TIFF to by default end up as a ~300MB afphoto file, with no edits -- Just open and save. Sometimes after deleting the snapshot an resaving it will drop to ~125MB, but by no means every time.

[stokerg]

1 minute ago, Old Bruce said:

For what it is worth here on my Mac if I open a raw file there is no snapshot. If it is another format then when I open a PNG for instance there is a Snapshot of the Background layer. If I place a PNG in a new document there is no Snapshot.

Thank you @Old Bruce, I'd totally forgotten about the Snapshot from opening an image and so did the other Tech Agent I checked with before i replied!

[stokerg]

2 minutes ago, lphilpot said:

So you're saying we currently need to Save As but at some point we thereafter won't?

 

I would always recommend a Save As, as outlined by one of the Developers here it's the best way to force streamlining, which should reduce the file size.  It just doesn't work for the issue that has been posted about, which is related to the Snapshot layer.

[lphilpot]

24 minutes ago, stokerg said:

I would always recommend a Save As, as outlined by one of the Developers here it's the best way to force streamlining, which should reduce the file size.  It just doesn't work for the issue that has been posted about, which is related to the Snapshot layer.

So my current (2.1 beta 1730) process is:

1. Open a TIFF, e.g. IMG_1234.tif
2. Save it as IMG_1234x.afphoto
3. Close it
4. Re-open it
5. Delete the snapshot
6. Save it as IMG_1234.afphoto
7. Delete IMG_1234x.afphoto

Given the current state of affairs, is that as concise as possible (six steps to save vs. the usual one)?

Thanks.

[Old Bruce]

10 minutes ago, lphilpot said:

So my current (2.1 beta 1730) process is:

...

Does not 

1. Open file 1234.TIFF
2. Delete Snapshot
3. Save as... 1234.afphoto

work for you? Meaning no Snapshot in 1234.afphoto when you open it later.

[lphilpot]

7 minutes ago, Old Bruce said:

Does not 

1. Open file 1234.TIFF
2. Delete Snapshot
3. Save as... 1234.afphoto

work for you?

I'd have to try again to confirm (with the latest beta, etc.) but in the past it has not. In fact that sequence was the shortest I was able to perform and (at the time) still reliably get a file size reduction. Now with the current 1730 beta it doesn't always happen anymore. It looks like an option to force streamlining with every save would at least workaround the issue as long as the snapshot was deleted.

It just seems Photo does a number of things by default that should be configurable. You know, the old rule that "software should do what it's told, when it's told, how it's told and not unless it's told."  Kinda like Unix. 🙂

[stokerg]

Just now, lphilpot said:

Now with the current 1730 beta it doesn't always happen anymore. It looks like an option to force streamlining with every save would at least workaround the issue as long as the snapshot was deleted.

Please make sure you are reporting beta issues in the beta section of the Forums here, as it's a different team that's looking after the beta and replies here or issues raised, will be missed.

[lphilpot]

2 minutes ago, stokerg said:

Please make sure you are reporting beta issues in the beta section of the Forums here, as it's a different team that's looking after the beta and replies here or issues raised, will be missed.

Yes, I do. That was just an aside in that context. However, I'd like to know I'm following the right procedure so I don't falsely report issues.

[Alex_M]

On 3/21/2023 at 11:49 AM, stokerg said:

Hi @Alex_M,

Thanks for uploading the files.

If you view the Snapshot panel (Window>Snapshots) you'll see there is a snapshot, which will be where the bulk of the size is coming from.  Deleting this and then using File>Save As should result in a much smaller file, however there is a bug we have logged where deleting the Snapshot layer doesn't reduce the file size.  I will update that bug report and link back to this thread.

If you recreate that file, don't add a snapshot, you should find it stays much much smaller in size.

Hi,

Yes, there's indeed a snapshot there. I hadn't created the snapshot though. As others have pointed out, it seems that Photo created it automatically without any warning or me knowing. I tried deleting the snapshot and doing "save as", but this didn't reduce the file size. Looks like a bug. Maybe it's a good idea to let the user know that a snapshot has been created and also have control over weather and when one is created.

[Alex_M]

Hello. I still have this problem with Affinity Photo 2.4.2. A document with a single linked image layer (PNG image) is almost 400mb. Can you kindly look into this issue? Would you like me to send you this document?

[Patrick Connor]

The file format is not designed to be small it is designed with fast drawing in mind and image previews of all files are saved. "Linked" in an affinity file mostly means "watch out for possible changes" so the internally saved previews (at a number of sizes/zoom levels) are still there in the saved file, just not the original source file. Without those previews it couldn't draw quickly as you change zoom level.

Perhaps we could offer a slower loading smaller sized "save minimal" that always regenerates the previews of a linked file on each load but that's not what we have currently, sorry.

[Alex_M]

Yes, such option would be greatly appreciated!!! 

I acknowledge the speed of Affinity Photo and I can attest to it. However, when I finish a project and go on to archive it, speed becomes irrelevant since most of the time it's not expected for me to work on it anymore (or at least not actively). In this case, I want my files to be as small as possible in order to save on disk space (cloud storage can be expensive with large imagery and other media!). 400mb is waaay too much for a simple 8-bit document at 4800x3200 px with a single image layer, I think you would agree. Now consider that I have at least 4 of these documents on average in a project and you get the idea of how quickly things start getting out of control sizewise. That's 1.4 GB of storage that shrinks down to just 75 MB when I use linked layers/purge the cache and archive with 7zip (I've just tested this).

I certainly can use the workaround where I create a new document from scratch and copy all the contents from the old one in there and save again with a new name. However, this is really cumbersome and time consuming with a lot of documents when there could be a simple feature called "purge cache" or similar that removes all cached stuff from the file when the user is not expected to work on it actively and it's fine to wait a bit more for things to load next time. I hope you consider this feature. Let me know if I should post a new thread about it in the Feedback & Suggestions section.