Offline activation

[Corgi]

10 hours ago, Ron P. said:

Fair and reasonable sometimes is out of the control of the corporations.

...

My point is, the software we purchase today, may be gone tomorrow. It's called big business, and sometimes big business is just about how much they can get selling to a larger one. You can't convince me that if some day in the future, Adobe or any other huge corporation would approach Serif with an offer to buy the Affinity software for $20 billion, they would not seriously consider.

It feels like you think that I'm saying that it's fair and reasonable for corporations to continue to operate license servers ad infinitum. Rather, I'm saying that EULAs should specify that yes, companies should host active license servers for the software they've sold, but if they cannot for whatever reason, they shall release whatever code or data is necessary to permit others to continue to activate the purchased software.

The point of my second, third, and fourth bullets was intended specifically to form a contract between the user and the corporation such that in the event of a buy-out or acquisition (among other things), such as the examples you gave of Ulead and Macromedia, the abandoned software is not dead. I'm not a lawyer so I'm sure what I wrote isn't fully comprehensive or up to snuff for legal purposes, but hopefully enough to make the point.

 

[dcr]

17 hours ago, Corgi said:

The EULA stipulates that as long as the company operates, it will supply an accessible license server for the purpose of registering or re-registering any of its licensed software, no matter how old.

Add clarify that the accessible license server must remain accessible to the operating system versions that the software runs on.

As an example, Adobe CS6 apps will run on Mac OS X 10.6.8 but can no longer be activated on Mac OS 10.6.8 because the license server is no longer accessible by Mac OS X 10.6.8.

In such a case, under your proposed EULA, it should be required that they either keep a license server available that would be accessible to older operating systems or, should that prove to be a security issue, they would then release versions that could be activated offline with a serial number.

[Patrick Connor]

8 hours ago, Peccavi said:

Offline activation....if it comes at the end of the lifecycle of the product?

Yes we would do something like this in that unlikely event, but not presently.

(I'd like to think it has a longer lifetime that a week )

 

[Peccavi]

4 hours ago, Patrick Connor said:

Yes we would do something like this in that unlikely event, but not presently.

(I'd like to think it has a longer lifetime that a week )

 

I hope it will be supported for a long time. This is the anwser I was looking for.

I just dont want to get Adobed again with those lazy servers... Protect the software while you support it, but dont punish licence owners.

[siup]

I don't speak well enough to read this topic, so can someone from afinity summarize this topic for me: will there be a possibility in the future to install or transfer a license on a computer not having internet access? a simple answer: yes or no would be the best to be sure

[Patrick Connor]

1 minute ago, siup said:

will there be a possibility in the future to install or transfer a license on a computer not having internet access

Now: NO

Future: UNDECIDED (perhaps Yes, but assume No)

[Fred5738]

I wouldn't mind to pay more for a version with offline activation.

[ATP]

1 minute ago, Fred5738 said:

I wouldn't mind to pay more for a version with offline activation.

You should not encourage or entertain this, you already paid a lot of money for the software. Currently we're just loaning the software which can be taken away at any time. It's not good.

[Patrick Connor]

2 minutes ago, ATP said:

Currently we're just loaning the software which can be taken away at any time. It's not good.

That's not a completely fair representation, as you only need to connect once and then never again on that device if you don't want to. We cannot take it away.

[Fred5738]

7 minutes ago, ATP said:

You should not encourage or entertain this, you already paid a lot of money for the software. Currently we're just loaning the software which can be taken away at any time. It's not good.

No, first of all, I paid very little money, compared to what other, similair applications cost.
And secondly, if you would have a version with offline activation, you could use it as long as your OS supports it, just like v1.

 

[ATP]

1 minute ago, Patrick Connor said:

That's not a completely fair representation, as you only need to connect once and then never again on that device if you don't want to. We cannot take it away.

It's not possible to keep an install around forever.

I understand you protect the software to avoid pirates, but it puts customers at risk of losing access and it makes me feel uneasy the discussion seemingly hasn't been important inside Serif.

[Artsketch]

On 11/14/2022 at 5:27 PM, dcr said:

As an example, Adobe CS6 apps will run on Mac OS X 10.6.8 but can no longer be activated on Mac OS 10.6.8 because the license server is no longer accessible by Mac OS X 10.6.8.

I still have a Photoshop CS5 running under OS X 10.11 activated before shutdown

[ATP]

1 minute ago, Artsketch said:

I still have a Photoshop CS5 running under OS X 10.11 activated before shutdown

And what are you doing when that OSX install isn't usable anymore?

[Fred5738]

2 minutes ago, ATP said:

And what are you doing when that OSX install isn't usable anymore?

Or if you get a new computer?

[François R]

23 hours ago, Peccavi said:

I just dont want to get Adobed again with those lazy servers... Protect the software while you support it, but dont punish licence owners.

I suddenly start thinking about this in relation to Adobe's retired license servers. If Serif's license servers become unreachable for any reason... MegaBrexit, World War 3 light (read newspapers these hours), prolonged global internet outages in global conflict, prolonged hacking of Serif and servers, company shuts down unexpectedly and quickly, company shuts down altogether for normal reasons, company is bought out and shut down, accident at Nottingham Fireworks Factory, all manner of unexpected calamity.

And then some customers have to reinstall or install on new PC. 

[ATP]

Just now, Fred5738 said:

Or if you get a new computer?

Yeah you put it better than me here and on the "V2 is a downgrade" thread.

 

[Artsketch]

3 minutes ago, ATP said:

And what are you doing when that OSX install isn't usable anymore?

Why it should be? I have backups and don't connect this old Mac to the internet for security reasons. When CS2 was shut down adobe provided new universal serial numbers that don't need activation any more.

[ATP]

6 minutes ago, Artsketch said:

Why it should be? I have backups and don't connect this old Mac to the internet for security reasons. When CS2 was shut down adobe provided new universal serial numbers that don't need activation any more.

So you think it's okay to have to bend over backwards to work with CS5? It's disgraceful and disgustingly done by Adobe.

They clearly haven't done the same for CS5 as CS2 or you wouldn't have that problem, so that isn't a positive in any way.

[Fred5738]

7 minutes ago, Artsketch said:

Why it should be? I have backups and don't connect this old Mac to the internet for security reasons. When CS2 was shut down adobe provided new universal serial numbers that don't need activation any more.

As far as I know, that's not what Adobe did with MacroMedia FreeHand, they just discontinued that, despite of a lot of users complaining about it ...

[Patrick Connor]

15 minutes ago, ATP said:

It's not possible to keep an install around forever.

I understand you protect the software to avoid pirates, but it puts customers at risk of losing access and it makes me feel uneasy the discussion seemingly hasn't been important inside Serif.

I appreciate your explanation I was just clarifying our current position for others, I believe you already understood.

This is very new for Serif. People like you making reasoned arguments will influence us going forward I'm sure. 

[ATP]

7 minutes ago, Patrick Connor said:

I appreciate your explanation I was just clarifying our current position for others, I believe you already understood.

This is very new for Serif. People like you making reasoned arguments will influence us going forward I'm sure. 

Thank you. I hope for a public plan once there's time for the discussion internally and the dust from the launch has settled.

Great day to you.

[dcr]

1 hour ago, François R said:

I suddenly start thinking about this in relation to Adobe's retired license servers. If Serif's license servers become unreachable for any reason... MegaBrexit, World War 3 light (read newspapers these hours), prolonged global internet outages in global conflict, prolonged hacking of Serif and servers, company shuts down unexpectedly and quickly, company shuts down altogether for normal reasons, company is bought out and shut down, accident at Nottingham Fireworks Factory, all manner of unexpected calamity.

And then some customers have to reinstall or install on new PC. 

It doesn't even have to be a major calamity.  Imagine the Internet is down for a week or weekend (power outage due to weather, cable severed by hapless construction crews, etc.) and you still need to complete a project.  If you have the software installed on a desktop but now need it on a laptop because it has a battery and the desktop doesn't, you wouldn't be able to activate the software to use it.

 

58 minutes ago, Artsketch said:

Why it should be? I have backups and don't connect this old Mac to the internet for security reasons.

What happens when the hard drive crashes or dies?  Or the logic board goes out and needs to be replaced?  In Adobe's case, either of those would require a re-activation of the software.  I don't know how Serif's V2 licensing system ties to the computer but I would guess in a similar manner.

And sometimes computers die and can't be fixed because replacement parts are not available anymore.  Or they become irreparably damaged via an accident.  Then you have to get a new one or a new-to-you old one.

In any event, when an activation is tied to the computer's hardware and that hardware needs to be replaced at some point in the future, that activation is dead.  And if you can't connect to a licensing server because the servers are gone or your computer is too old to connect, you won't be able to reactivate it.

 

1 hour ago, Artsketch said:

When CS2 was shut down adobe provided new universal serial numbers that don't need activation any more.

Same with CS3 except they didn't notify customers so if you didn't have a problem with your install until after they had ceased offering replacement serial numbers, you were out of luck.  CS5, CS5.5 and CS6 can still reportedly be activated but some older OS versions are unable to connect to the licensing server so if you need to reactivate on an older machine, you're out of luck.

[Bryce]

On 11/13/2022 at 10:58 PM, Ron P. said:

You ever hear of Macromedia? I remember when Adobe bought out Macromedia. They then started doing away with as much of those products created by Macromedia. I think Macromedia Flash was about the first they trashed.

Actually, it was Aldus Freehand - at least when I used it. Loved it. When AD came out it reminded me more of Freehand than IL and that's what got me started again.

[beeka]

3 hours ago, dcr said:

It doesn't even have to be a major calamity.  Imagine the Internet is down for a week or weekend (power outage due to weather, cable severed by hapless construction crews, etc.) and you still need to complete a project.  If you have the software installed on a desktop but now need it on a laptop because it has a battery and the desktop doesn't, you wouldn't be able to activate the software to use it.

Why not just install it on all your computers while the internet is up? It is not like Steam, which requires an internet connection every 30 days. When twitter goes down for ten minutes it seems to make the news: I'd put "power outage for a week" in the major calamity category.

I prefer the previous key-based activation, and imagine the new approach won't stop the protection being cracked for very long, but it does feel like people are making more of this than is needed. CS3 is fifteen years old and you still seem to be bitter about it: are you saying that if you can't install Affinity V2 in 2037 after spending £90 today that you will feel hard done by?

[ATP]

3 minutes ago, beeka said:

Why not just install it on all your computers while the internet is up? It is not like Steam, which requires an internet connection every 30 days. When twitter goes down for ten minutes it seems to make the news: I'd put "power outage for a week" in the major calamity category.

Steam will never require an internet check if you set it to remember login details. You can even move the install to a different computer and it'll still work.