Node Snapping Issue

[Hangman]

I already know I'm going to feel silly asking this because the answer will be obvious but for the life of me I can not figure out why I can't snap guides to nodes in AD 1.10.X when I have (what I believe) the exact same snapping settings to AD 1.7.3 where snapping to nodes is working as expected.

Would be grateful if anyone can point out which setting I'm missing as it is drivinig be a little... 🤪

AD 1.7.3 - Node Snapping

AD 1.10.X - Node Snapping (or not as appears to be the case)

Sample File

Snapping.afdesign

[Pšenda]

Menu Layer, Geometry, Separate Curves.
Apparently, in the Curves layer, many individual lines are connected, on which the snapping is no longer evaluated. Snapping works on individual lines, or if only a few lines are connected using Merge curves.

[Hangman]

4 minutes ago, Pšenda said:

Geometry, Separate Curves.

But why can I snap to nodes without separating curves in AD 1.7.3 yet I can't in 1.10.X? More so in that I wouldn't want to separate curves unnecessarily...

[Old Bruce]

Turn this on.

Edit to add vital information: This will allow you to drag guides and snap with the Node tool, and only the Node tool will snap the guides.

[Pšenda]

2 minutes ago, Old Bruce said:

Turn this on.

With the Move Tool, which can be used to move Guides, these options are irrelevant - they are used for snapping to the Node Tool.
However, I tried, and snapping still doesn't snap.

[Hangman]

@Old Bruce I already tried Align to nodes of selected curves and it makes zero difference (for me). I don't believe that is its intended purpose anyway, as in, it's not designed to allow guide snapping to nodes but for aligning nodes when dragging...

Likewise, with the exact same settings in both 1.7.3 and 1.10.X I'm seeing the differing behaviour in the original post.

[Old Bruce]

If the need is to place guides exactly on the nodes then the information I gave in the edited version of my previous post will work. Use the Node tool to place the guides exactly. I have no real idea why @Hangman wants the guides snapped to the nodes but I have shown that it can be done.

[Hangman]

22 minutes ago, Old Bruce said:

Edit to add vital information: This will allow you to drag guides and snap with the Node tool, and only the Node tool will snap the guides.

That certainly works (which is great) but is this a specific change in behaviour between versions, as in, should it not also be possible to snap guides to nodes using the Move tool, as you can in 1.7.3?

The issue being that once you release a guide when using the node tool to drag it, you can no longer re-select it should you want to move it without reverting to the Move tool...

[Old Bruce]

Just now, Hangman said:

is this a specific change in behaviour between versions, as in, should it not also be possible to snap guides to nodes using the Move tool, as you can in 1.7.3?

I no longer have any earlier versions of Affinity Applications. So I cannot test the behaviour with the move tool. I do think this is some sort of bug or lost functionality.

[Pšenda]

2 minutes ago, Hangman said:

should it not also be possible to snap guides to nodes using the Move tool

Snapping guides with Move Tools works, but they must be separate curves, or just a few curves connected with Merge.
In my opinion, the evaluation algorithm has been modified between versions (either by mistake or intentionally due to optimization and speed) so that large groups of curves are not searched.

[Hangman]

2 minutes ago, Old Bruce said:

I do think this is some sort of bug or lost functionality.

Using the Node tool in 1.7.3 will snap guides to Nodes without either Align to nodes of selected curves or Snap to geometry of selected curves selected, which is what I would expect as neither function (reading the description at least) is designed for this purpose.

As mentioned in my now edited previous post, the issue with using the Node tool to drag guides is that once you release a guide you can no longer re-select it should you wish to move it to a different location without reverting to the Move tool, which becomes self-defeating...

[Hangman]

4 minutes ago, Pšenda said:

Snapping guides with Move Tools works, but they must be separate curves, or just a few curves connected with Merge.

I agree but this is madness, why would you want to create potentially hundreds or thousands of layers (depending on the complexity) just to be able to achieve this? Whilst it works, it makes no logical sense in my humble opinion...

6 minutes ago, Pšenda said:

In my opinion, the evaluation algorithm has been modified between versions (either by mistake or intentionally due to optimization and speed) so that large groups of curves are not searched.

Something has certainly changed but not for the better it seems. I would hardly call the sample file complex in terms of the number of curves involved

[Hangman]

Even applying this to a line the Move tool doesn't snap to Nodes in 1.10.X but in 1.7.3 it snaps to both Nodes and each lines' centre point... so a little frustrating and odd, anyone know (out of interest) what behaviour Illustrator exhibits with the Move tool? (I don't have a version I can test).

AD 1.7.3 - Node and Mid Point Snapping

 

AD 1.10.X - No Node or Mid Point Snapping

I guess it would be helpful to know if this is indeed by design for the reasons @Pšenda mentions or if it is a actually a bug? Hopefully, one of the moderators can answer this?

[Old Bruce]

1 minute ago, Pšenda said:

so that large groups of curves are not searched.

For instance that node in the centre of the 'star' is actually 32 nodes.

[Hangman]

6 minutes ago, Old Bruce said:

For instance that node in the centre of the 'star' is actually 32 nodes.

That is because Include bounding box mid points is selected in Snapping options and it just so happens those 32 nodes are located right at the centre of the overall shape. If you select all 32 nodes and move them off-centre it no longer snaps to those nodes when using the Move tool.

[Old Bruce]

I was just pointing out that there are 32 nodes that are not needed for snapping. And actually each of the nodes you are wanting to snap to on the periphery is actually a coincident pair. Creates confusion.

[Hangman]

@Old Bruce I agree, I'm just curious to understand the change in behaviour between versions and whether tis by design or it be one of them nasty bugs... 😳

[Old Bruce]

1 minute ago, Hangman said:

whether tis by design or it be one of them nasty bugs.

I am leaning towards believing it to be a bug. I don't see any actual advantage to removing the functionality you say was in the earlier version. But it may be that it was consuming too many cycles and so was removed.

[Hangman]

1 minute ago, Old Bruce said:

I am leaning towards believing it to be a bug. I don't see any actual advantage to removing the functionality you say was in the earlier version.

That's my gut feeling too... hopefully we can get some clarification from the Mod Team?

2 minutes ago, Old Bruce said:

it may be that it was consuming too many cycles and so was removed.

I can't pretend to understand how something like dragging a guide with the Move tool impacts performance but (in my head) it perhaps doesn't sound to be the most complicated of functions, but I know nothing about how it works in practice... equally happy to be educated though... 🎓

What makes little sense (to me) from a purely logical standpoint, is that surely you'd experience the same impact moving a guide using the Node tool as you would with the Move tool selected from a 'consuming too many cycles' perspective, which I guess suggests this is more likely a bug?

[Pšenda]

20 minutes ago, Old Bruce said:

I was just pointing out that there are 32 nodes that are not needed for snapping.

But it doesn't work on several lines. If you Merge two lines, it still works, but not for three.
I've now found that it's enough for the curves to be grouped together by a Group, they don't even have to be Merge curves, and snapping doesn't work anymore.

[Old Bruce]

6 minutes ago, Hangman said:

surely you'd experience the same impact moving a guide using the Node tool as you would with the Move tool selected from a 'consuming too many cycles' perspective,

Actually you would be dealing with the nodes from only that one object, not all the vector objects that are (in the snapping candidates list) in the file as would be the case with the move too.

Post Script: And don't call me Shirley. Lord but I loved that movie.

[PixelPest]

A downside that still persists is that only the move-tool can move existent guides (towards snapping) while mainly all other tools can establish a guide from dragging off the ruler bar. 

[Hangman]

3 minutes ago, PixelPest said:

A downside that still persists is that only the move-tool can move existent guides while mainly all other tools can establish a guide from dragging off the ruler bar.

Exactly my point (see previous posts), which is why I think we're all heading towards believing this is more likely a bug...

[Pšenda]

2 minutes ago, PixelPest said:

A downside that still persists

Unlike dragging any tool from the Ruler bars, moving inside the canvas, where guides and objects mix, is quite complicated. I think the current implementation is intentional so that the user does not inadvertently move the guides when drawing lines.

[Hangman]

13 minutes ago, Pšenda said:

If you Merge two lines, it still works, but not for three.

Even merging two lines isn't working for me...

14 minutes ago, Pšenda said:

I've now found that it's enough for the curves to be grouped together by a Group, they don't even have to be Merge curves, and snapping doesn't work anymore.

Same here... take them out of the group and snapping works, place them in a group or merge the lines and snapping no longer works... it has to be a bug in that case...