HEIF (HEIC) format support on export

[forwanderer]

It seems quite strange to me that having this up to 16 bit HEIC picture format, no one is implementing it for export after editing the raw file. Smaller file size, better compression, much higher color depth (16bit against 8 for JPG).

Is it possible to have it available in Affinity Photo? And if not, than why?

[Pšenda]

https://www.google.com/search?q=HEIC+site%3Ahttps%3A%2F%2Fforum.affinity.serif.com

[fde101]

It should probably be pointed out that HEIC is patent-encumbered and cannot be legally used in software in some countries (USA, etc.) without royalty payments.

Because of this it will be poorly supported (if at all) on Linux and other open-source platforms.

I wouldn't recommend using it.

[Fixx]

It is not well supported even in mac platform.

[JMI]

+1 for this suggestion. And please for the iPad version too.

I noticed that Pixelmator on my iPad is able to export to HEIF, so others have found it technically feasible. 

[Pyrrho]

If a GPL'd application like GIMP can do this, I'd expect APhoto to. Working on a project where I need this functionality and disappointed to learn yet another thing APhoto can't do with no timeframe in which it'll be implemented? Ugh.

[DJ3rry]

Is the best bet - or rather the next best thing to exporting as close as possible to lossless - to save a .heif project as a .psd project, open that .psd project/file in Preview and then export it to .heif ?

(In my case panorama stitching of .heif files for use in the macOS Photos app)

Anyone have any experience or suggestions ?

[kirk23]

let's   get import of files with alpha  fixed first.   All files with zero alpha pixels got them multiplied on RGB channels.   It's wrong  and needs to be fixed before  any exotics.

[kirk23]

Here how same imported tga  or tiff looks in Photoshop an APhoto with alpha off.      Isn't it an import  bug basically?   I think they should fix it asap before any exotic new formats

[HaDAk]

On 6/18/2021 at 10:49 AM, fde101 said:

It should probably be pointed out that HEIC is patent-encumbered and cannot be legally used in software in some countries (USA, etc.) without royalty payments.

Because of this it will be poorly supported (if at all) on Linux and other open-source platforms.

I wouldn't recommend using it.

Balls. Really? I believe you but do you have any supporting documentation for this claim? I'd love to read up on it.

[HaDAk]

On 11/12/2021 at 1:57 PM, LondonSquirrel said:

Doesn't the use of any file format depend on what you are going to do with it? Let's say you have your completed file stored as HEIF. What are you going to do with it? Print it? Show it on the web? Share it with other people? Does your printer accept HEIF files or will you be converting them? Do web browsers support HEIF natively? I ask 'natively' because I don't want to install a plugin just to see your file.

I would prefer saving files on my NAS in HEIF rather than RAW.  I have plenty of storage space, would prefer the added color depth and features of HEIF over jpg, and would only convert it to jpg when sharing on the web. Likewise, I don't want to open my RAW files unless I absolutely have to, since they're 10-20x the size of an HEIF file.

[JMI]

2 hours ago, HaDAk said:

Balls. Really? I believe you but do you have any supporting documentation for this claim? I'd love to read up on it.

While looking for HEIF support for Linux I found several open source examples e.g. 

http://nokiatech.github.io/heif/

so think there is some precedent to it being available. 
 

separately. In a strange “ be careful what you wish for“ I have observed relatively slow speeds when copying smaller files with the HEIF extension to a raspberry pi based NAS, vs copying the larger jpg equivalent. 

[JMI]

23 minutes ago, LondonSquirrel said:

Any ideas why? As far as the OS is concerned it's just bytes. 

No idea. the point you made is why I am confused  I’m new to Linux / SMB, so not sure if the OS “does something” with file types the OS does not natively recognize. As a long short I installed a package to enable HEIF support in the native OS image viewer, and that did not improve copy speeds. 
I don’t see similar performance difference copying to a windows share connected to same switch. 

[fde101]

On 1/5/2022 at 7:31 PM, HaDAk said:

do you have any supporting documentation for this claim?

HEIC is HEVC encoded data in a HEIF container (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Efficiency_Image_File_Format).

MPEG LA maintains a patent pool covering over 20 companies having "essential" patents over HEVC (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Efficiency_Video_Coding#Patent_licensing and/or https://www.mpegla.com/programs/hevc/).

 

On 1/5/2022 at 9:33 PM, JMI said:

While looking for HEIF support for Linux I found several open source examples

HEIF is a container format.  Unlikely that the container would have patent issues.

The data encoded within it can be in any of several formats, but HEIC specifically uses HEVC, which is patented.

Note that even if open-source code exists covering HEIC, this does not mean that code (or products using that code) are legal to use in countries where the patent is enforced.  Some countries do not enforce such patents, so it may be legal in some places, but not in others (such as the USA).  The same situation exists right now with MP4/AVC video, for example.

[Ted32]

I want HEIC mostly to reduce file size. Affinity Photo doesn't do, so I have found that I have to resort to macos' Preview. In the File Menu click on Export.

[Lewis Levin]

Apple has excellent support for HEIC/HEIF. So does Pixelmator/Photomator and Adobe.

The container format and metadata are not covered by patents.

The still image format is: The ISO base media file format is published by ISO as part 12 of the MPEG-4 specifications, ISO/IEC 14496-12. 

It's not clear which part HEVC is covered by licensable patents and which parts would be needed for encoding/decoding still images.

Pixelmator is 19 people in Vilnius, Lithuania so I don't think they have vast revenue/profit to cover a huge license.

I do not know if this hunch is true or not, but it could be that if your application uses a library provided by Apple to do image conversions (say to/from HEIC/HEIF) that you are covered by Apple's license to use the technology,

OSS advocates always have an allergy to patents or to rumors of patents and might not be looking at the practical side.  GIMP supports HEIC and it's not clear who would pay for a license and who would get sued if in violation. I don't think anyone has been sued over it.

So, it's probably more a matter of doing the work.  HEIF as implemented by Apple is not completely trivial as the container can contain sequences of images from "Live" pics taken on an iPhone.

[Lewis Levin]

Here is the answer via KAGI web search on whether there are incremental licensing costs for using Apple's HEIC code:

Based on the available information, it appears that Apple does not require developers to pay additional license fees to use code libraries that support the HEIC image format:

• The Apple Developer Program has an annual fee of $99 USD, which provides access to various Apple developer tools and resources. ^[1][2]
• There is no mention of any additional fees specifically for using HEIC support libraries. ^[3][4]
• However, one source indicates that the HEVC video codec, which is related to the HEIC image format, requires a $0.99 extension to function. ^[5]

So in summary, while Apple does not seem to charge extra fees for HEIC support libraries, there may be third-party costs associated with certain codecs used in HEIC files. But the core Apple Developer Program membership does not require any additional fees specifically for HEIC.^[3][4]

1. Membership Details - Apple Developer Program
2. Choosing a Membership - Support - Apple Developer
3. Apple Developer Program License Agreement - Support
4. Agreements and Guidelines - Support - Apple Developer
5. Why is HEIC not popular? : r/apple - Reddit

In all likelihood, there is no per unit fee and only the Apple developer annual fee.  Microsoft also supports HEIC and so they also probably have developers covered. Who knows (cares?) about this on Linux--sort of moot for Serif/Canva who don't support Linux for any of their products.