Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Hi,

When exporting a file the other day and sending it to someone else they saw different colors on the file. I took a picture of both my PC (left) and the other. I hope the difference is clear. The orange fill of the flowers is more blue. The letters don't have the same bright orange color. 

I noticed that the color wheels on both laptops look totally different. 

Can someone explain how this comes and what I can do about it?

Thank you!

Nils

 

Knipsel.PNG

Knipsel2.JPG

IMG_20200728_114806466.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your file has one colour space (e.g. sRGB/CMYK Swop etc.) and your exported file has a different one.

When you export (to jpeg it looks like?), click "more" and in ICC profile choose "use document profile".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, nilsbinnemans said:

Thank you for your answer, @BofG

Still no luck though. When I reopen the export options the ICC has dissappeared. Is that normal?

image.png.976cbae1d182170489a72084bbe7c54a.png

It is unfortunately normal that the previously used custom settings are forgotten. You can click 'manage presets' and create your own.

Another unfortunate Affinity behavior is that setting the ICC profile to "Use document profile" is not enough to create a preset. But if you set the JPG quality to a custom value other than the selected value - fx 99 - you can save the file. You don't have to do this if you changed another setting in export settings, then "create" will be enabled.


I gave up using Designer for hobby use - a "professional" vector drawing program without actual vector features. Customers waiting for five years in vain is more than any company can ask for. Maybe if Affinity Designer 2.0 gets real and advanced vector features I can use it. Until then... I am a customer, a potential upgrader and an active observer with an opinion. Currently I am slowly finishing a project I started in Designer.

Further... give up and please hire an UX (usability designer), Serif. It is how professional software is made in this century.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, nilsbinnemans said:

a difference in color between machines,

Possibly the machines have different color settings?


macOS 10.14.6, Macbook Pro Retina 15" + Eizo 24", Affinity in Separated Mode (documents merged)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, nilsbinnemans said:

There is still a difference in color between machines, no matter what format I export to.

Even if you both open the same source .afdesign file?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, Lee D said:

As it relates to colour I would check to see which profile the display is using in Windows as it may be this issue.

Yep. This is very likely the root cause. Or... all monitors and laptop screens are different. Most cheap monitors are calibrated for office work, movie watching or something in between. That is I always demonstrate my designs or images at work on MY calibrated, expensive monitor. Otherwise ... feedback Hell.

The two IDENTICAL standard monitors I initially got at work displayed colors very differently using factory settings. Maybe one was older than the older, but not much. You need at trusted, calibrated reference monitor.


I gave up using Designer for hobby use - a "professional" vector drawing program without actual vector features. Customers waiting for five years in vain is more than any company can ask for. Maybe if Affinity Designer 2.0 gets real and advanced vector features I can use it. Until then... I am a customer, a potential upgrader and an active observer with an opinion. Currently I am slowly finishing a project I started in Designer.

Further... give up and please hire an UX (usability designer), Serif. It is how professional software is made in this century.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, nilsbinnemans said:

Yes, even opened in the same source .afdesign file. (shown in the picture at top)

Hmm, in the picture at the top the screen on the right has a jpeg open.

Anyway, maybe the suggestion to check the display profile is worth a try (I have to admit that boggles my mind a bit as I thought the display profile was an independent thing that adjust colours after the fact, I guess maybe Affinity taps into it somehow??).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, BofG said:

that boggles my mind a bit as I thought the display profile was an independent thing that adjust colours after the fact,

Just imagine an image with a profile in grayscale or CMYK. Since display profiles are always RGB, two different screens can display the colors of a certain image differently depending on their profile and calibration. Note that a display profile always concerns a specific hardware (the monitor), you even can get different results when copying a profile of one monitor to another of the same brand and model. Also image profiles maybe hardware related, e.g. for a certain printing machine, but don't have to be and most often aren't.


macOS 10.14.6, Macbook Pro Retina 15" + Eizo 24", Affinity in Separated Mode (documents merged)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That much I understand. But what is being implied here is that the display profile is altering the document colour values. That is a completely different thing. If the OP has the same document on two machines, then for sure they can look different, but wouldn't the reported colour values be from the file? Or does Affinity really run this through the display profile and report the values that comes back from that process?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This specific color difference is so great that it is likely that it is related to problems with display color profiles, but when testing this, I found that the way color management of Affinity apps works is odd, and IMO erroneous, and very different from the way color management operates in Adobe apps.

I think that the default color preferences (not counting the CMYK Color Profile, the default of which is probably US Web Coated) of Affinity apps used to be as follows (as regards color conversions and warnings).

preferences_ad.jpg.c37bde0eec3f2d72b5d1ff8de2957557.jpg

But now I seem to have at least in some of the apps "Convert opened files to working space" as the default setting -- I may have changed it for test purposes and forgot to turn the setting off. But let us assume that the user has this setting turned on.

If I open the following .afdesign file with an embedded AdobeRGB profile in an environment where I have sRGB as working space color profile, I do not get any warning, but the app auto-assigns the opened file the sRGB profle. Auto-assigning is different thing than conversion: the existing color values are kept but the colors look different than when viewed when the file was opened while using the embedded AdobeRGB profile. Here the difference is illustrated (both rectangles have identical RGB values):

srgb_vs_adobergb.jpg.8875b5c7d219351c081a65e074f84bac.jpg

The correct behavior would naturally be that an app by default, or after confirming this from the user, uses the embedded profile, OR, converts the opened file to the working color space after asking this from the user. But it should never auto-assign a profile and accordingly override existing profile without user's consent. This behavior would cause this kind of unexpected color difference between two systems, when the whole idea of color management is to avoid these kinds of problems.

In Affinity apps, I would inadvertenly lose the embedded profile, get different outlook, and would start modifying the file not realizing that color profile has silently been changed. It is clear that with these kinds of confused settings it would be impossible to do any kind of co-operation. The preferred default method, as mentioned, would be to always use the embedded profile, possibly after user confirmation. In some situations conversion (with or without confirmation) might also be useful, but never non-warned auto-assign and overriding of an existing profile.

But as said, I do not think that this is the major problem in this specific post. It might be part of the problem but display color profiles of both computers should be checked first.

UPDATE: I just noticed that what I describe above only applies to the current beta (1.8.4.681). The release version does convert the color values (instead of auto-assigning) and also warns about this (whenever the warning is turned on).

UPDATE2: I checked this behavior on macOS and could not reproduce it there with beta versions, and now that I re-checked (third time) the behavior on Windows (Designer beta), can no longer reproduce it there, either, so either I this was a temporary glitch, or my coarse error in performing the test -- in which case my apologies for wasting the readers' time.

preferences_ai.jpg

conflict_ai.jpg

after_conversion.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, BofG said:

If the OP has the same document on two machines, then for sure they can look different, but wouldn't the reported colour values be from the file? Or does Affinity really run this through the display profile and report the values that comes back from that process?

I am currently not sure what actually is different in the OP's situation.

The last info was: "There is still a difference in color between machines, no matter what format I export to."
This doesn't talk about value or visual impression but just a difference in color.

Also we did not get feedback from the OP whether the initial screenshots show files which have the same color profiles – or whether those were created afterwards – and what exactly was changed for the feedback "There is still a difference in color between machines, no matter what format I export to."

What role does "format" play in this feedback: a typo that should mean 'profile' – or indeed a different format, selected in the JPG export 'More' options at "Pixel Format" and thus exported with a different color space, not aware of the color profile?


macOS 10.14.6, Macbook Pro Retina 15" + Eizo 24", Affinity in Separated Mode (documents merged)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Lagarto said:

If I open the following .afdesign file with an embedded AdobeRGB profile in an environment where I have sRGB as working space color profile, I do not get any warning, but the app auto-assigns the opened file the sRGB profle.

FWIW, I am not sure what file you are testing with but on my Mac when I open a file with an embedded "Adobe RGB (1998)" profile in AD, the working profile is not changed if "Convert opened files to working space" is unchecked.


Affinity Photo 1.8.4, Affinity Designer 1.8.4, Affinity Publisher 1.8.4;  2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 40GB RAM; macOS 10.15.6
Affinity Photo 
1.8.4.186 & Affinity Designer 1.8.4.4 for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 13.3.1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, R C-R said:

FWIW, I am not sure what file you are testing with but on my Mac when I open a file with an embedded "Adobe RGB (1998)" profile in AD, the working profile is not changed if "Convert opened files to working space" is unchecked.

Yes, I just noticed that this behavior applies to current (Windows) beta (and already added note on this in the post).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Lagarto said:

But it should never auto-assign a profile and accordingly override existing profile without user's consent. This behavior would cause this kind of unexpected color difference between two systems, when the whole idea of color management is to avoid these kinds of problems.

+100 Absolutely.  Color management is already complex, no app should doing "here, let me just quietly make this change for you" on any input file or device, monitor or other display, export file format, or print device.  All color profile assignments must be explicit.  No implicit, automatic profile overrides of a system- or file-associated profile.  All profile assignments must be settable by the user, and resettable to the system- or file-associated profile.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, sfriedberg said:

All color profile assignments must be explicit. 

I noticed afterwards that this behavior applies to the latest beta (tested the Windows version). The release version behaves as specified in the settings (converts rather than assigns, and warns if specified), so let us hope that this behavior is just something that applies beta and will not be transferred to the release. I'd also prefer that the "warnings" are developed in future version to confirmation dialogs, where the user can decide what to do with the opened (and optionally pasted) files, and make all color management operations explicit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Please note the Annual Company Closure section in the Terms of Use. These are the Terms of Use you will be asked to agree to if you join the forum. | Privacy Policy | Guidelines | We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.