TonyGamble Posted February 25, 2020 Posted February 25, 2020 Why is my White Balance picker still leaving some warmth/yellow in my image. Two screen shots follow. The first from Affinity and the second from SNS-HDR. The tiles on the floor are white in that room. Tony Quote
DaveHil Posted February 25, 2020 Posted February 25, 2020 Ive found that using the paintbrush, go to colour wheel and change rgb values to 127 each, brush a small line with the new colour (grey), then use white balance picker and click on the grey line you just brushed on gives the correct WB. Hope this helps Quote
TonyGamble Posted February 25, 2020 Author Posted February 25, 2020 Thanks Dave. So the colour picker doesn't work then? Or not without what you suggested? Tony Quote
Move Along People Posted February 25, 2020 Posted February 25, 2020 - Quote Move Along people,nothing to see here
TonyGamble Posted February 25, 2020 Author Posted February 25, 2020 Fascinating. You are saying that my calibrated monitor setting is wrong. Does anyone endorse that advice? Tony Quote
Move Along People Posted February 25, 2020 Posted February 25, 2020 - Quote Move Along people,nothing to see here
TonyGamble Posted February 25, 2020 Author Posted February 25, 2020 Because I use too many other apps that expect the calibrated monitor profile - and work perfectly. Quote
smadell Posted February 25, 2020 Posted February 25, 2020 Two things... 1) I have a hard time believing that DaveHill's method could possibly work. If you're putting an already-grey line on the canvas, and using that as a target for the White Balance picker, you already know the line is grey and this should result in no actual change. The idea of the "picker" is to click on something that should be grey, but isn't. 2) You might be using the White Balance tool correctly (by clicking the "picker" on the white tiles). However (and this is a substantial "however") the picker in the White Balance panel only sets the correct value on the Blue-Yellow axis. It does not adjust the Tint slider (the Green-Magenta axis). Your remaining yellow tint might actually be more of a green tint, and might be very correctable by manually adjusting the Tint slider. I downloaded your image and adjusted the White Balance only, and then added the Tint slider. The result obtained by adding Magenta is much closer to what you are probably expecting. [see below...] ps - your second example (from SNS-HDR) also looks like it's had a Levels adjustment applied, and this may well be a function of the HDR nature of that program. My second example (above) could probably use a Levels adjustment, especially one which darkens up the Gamma (midtones). Quote Affinity Photo 2, Affinity Publisher 2, Affinity Designer 2 (latest retail versions) - desktop & iPad Culling - FastRawViewer; Raw Developer - Capture One Pro; Asset Management - Photo Supreme Mac Studio with M2 Max (2023); 64 GB RAM; macOS 13 (Ventura); Mac Studio Display - iPad Air 4th Gen; iPadOS 18
TonyGamble Posted February 26, 2020 Author Posted February 26, 2020 Thanks smadell. You mention the levels that may have been applied by SNS-HDR. They are probably there as I did the screen shot in a rush. I realised that something was amiss with the WB picker when I was processing my non HDR shots from that art class using DxO. I shot most of my portfolio in normal RAW and just tried a few HDR ones as an experiment. I'll re-post my Affinity picker shot and then the first RAW of the HDR triple processed using DxO. I have applied no adjustments to the DxO other than using the WB picker. If you are right, smadell, in your assessment that the Affinity picker only does half the needed correction I find it amazing that I am the first person to report this as a problem. Maybe I am not? Quote
smadell Posted February 26, 2020 Posted February 26, 2020 Good morning, TonyGamble... There are, I think, a couple of “comparing apples to oranges” issues here. First, it’s not entirely fair to compare white balance correction performed on a Raw file to that performed on a JPG image. Since you’re using the White Balance panel, you must be in the Photo persona, which implies you’ve moved beyond Raw processing. We simply don’t have the same latitude after Raw development that we have beforehand. Second, comparing Affinity Photo to an HDR processing application may suffer since HDR processing implies tone compression, local contrast introduction, and a host of other changes that go beyond simple color correction. This may be why the SNS-HDR version looks like it is Levels-adjusted. The White Balance panel in Affinity Photo is known to leave the Tint slider un-adjusted. This may be addressed in the future, but don’t hold your breath since it might be a long time. You might want to compare results from running a Raw file through DxO to the same results brought into Affinity’s Develop persona, where you can apply its White Balance tool. That having been said, and despite the fact that I consider myself an Affinity Photo “fanboy,” I am NOT a fan of its Raw file processing. I routinely use DxO PhotoLab on my Raw files, export them as 16 bit TIFF files, and finish them in AP. I got very similar results to you when I opened the downloaded JPG from your first post in DxO (without any other changes applied). Although I love working in Affinity Photo, and would love to have a one-size-fits-all solution, for the time being I will continue to rely on DxO for my Raw files, and that includes using it for the bulk of my White Balance correction. Quote Affinity Photo 2, Affinity Publisher 2, Affinity Designer 2 (latest retail versions) - desktop & iPad Culling - FastRawViewer; Raw Developer - Capture One Pro; Asset Management - Photo Supreme Mac Studio with M2 Max (2023); 64 GB RAM; macOS 13 (Ventura); Mac Studio Display - iPad Air 4th Gen; iPadOS 18
TonyGamble Posted February 27, 2020 Author Posted February 27, 2020 You say " First, it’s not entirely fair to compare white balance correction performed on a Raw file to that performed on a JPG image. Since you’re using the White Balance panel, you must be in the Photo persona, " Not true. I am working in Develop Persona on a RAW image not a JPG. I'll post some screen shots. In the first you will see that in Develop Persona the left hand stack of icons does not contain the White Balance. I clicked Apply at the top left and it took me into what Photo Persona. My second screen shot shows the list at the left - many more icons. If I go back into Develop Persona (the one I am advised to use on the RAW image) my left hand stack of images now contains a White Balance icon. Screen shot three. My fourth and final screen shot shows what happens when I click on those white floor tiles. Mindful of the earlier post that the WB does not correct the tint I moved it myself as far to the right as possible. You will see that even this cannot make the tiles white. I cannot believe that so many photographers using Affinity Photo can manage without the ability to get a true White Balance. Quote
walt.farrell Posted February 27, 2020 Posted February 27, 2020 2 hours ago, TonyGamble said: In the first you will see that in Develop Persona the left hand stack of icons does not contain the White Balance. I clicked Apply at the top left and it took me into what Photo Persona. My second screen shot shows the list at the left - many more icons. If I go back into Develop Persona (the one I am advised to use on the RAW image) my left hand stack of images now contains a White Balance icon. Screen shot three. Your first time into the Develop Persona, when you Open the RAW image, you are missing both the White Balance and Crop Tools. You should investigate why that is happening. Using the White Balance Tool before you click Apply the first time, and using it when you re-enter the Develop Persona a second time, will give different results, I believe. So you should try to figure out what's wrong the first time that causes the missing tools. Quote -- Walt Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases PC: Desktop: Windows 11 Pro 23H2, 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 Laptop: Windows 11 Pro 23H2, 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU. Laptop 2: Windows 11 Pro 24H2, 16GB memory, Snapdragon(R) X Elite - X1E80100 - Qualcomm(R) Oryon(TM) 12 Core CPU 4.01 GHz, Qualcomm(R) Adreno(TM) X1-85 GPU iPad: iPad Pro M1, 12.9": iPadOS 18.3, Apple Pencil 2, Magic Keyboard Mac: 2023 M2 MacBook Air 15", 16GB memory, macOS Sequoia 15.0.1
TonyGamble Posted February 27, 2020 Author Posted February 27, 2020 Excuse me, Walt. You should investigate why that is happening. So you should try to figure out what's wrong the first time that causes the missing tools. Do you seriously think I haven't? I have exchanged numerous emails with Dan at the company. On this very topic. Look at the length of this thread. I'm a newbie. Eighteen years of digital photography but only six days of trying to get a white balance in Affinity. Advice so far includes removing the calibration from my screen, painting a grey line on the image, using the hue slider as wb only works one slider and finally someone saying it was obvious I was working on a jpg (clever to do that before I create one). Interesting approaches but not really getting me far. Tell me Walt. In all your 10,039 posts am I really the only person who can't get the WB picker to pick a WB? At least one of the assorted answers admitted the picker does not work. So far that's the most progress I have made on this problem! Tony Quote
walt.farrell Posted February 27, 2020 Posted February 27, 2020 2 minutes ago, TonyGamble said: Tell me Walt. In all your 10,039 posts am I really the only person who can't get the WB picker to pick a WB? You are the only one I have seen who has the tool missing upon first entering the Develop Persona with a RAW image. I am not commenting on whether the WB picker works, or not,, but only on its absence when you first enter the Develop Persona. It will not work in exactly the same way, from what I have read, if you use it after leaving the Develop Persona and coming back to the Develop Persona. However, I do not know if that is relevant to your problem with how it is working. What is likely relevant is its absence originally. Quote -- Walt Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases PC: Desktop: Windows 11 Pro 23H2, 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 Laptop: Windows 11 Pro 23H2, 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU. Laptop 2: Windows 11 Pro 24H2, 16GB memory, Snapdragon(R) X Elite - X1E80100 - Qualcomm(R) Oryon(TM) 12 Core CPU 4.01 GHz, Qualcomm(R) Adreno(TM) X1-85 GPU iPad: iPad Pro M1, 12.9": iPadOS 18.3, Apple Pencil 2, Magic Keyboard Mac: 2023 M2 MacBook Air 15", 16GB memory, macOS Sequoia 15.0.1
TonyGamble Posted February 27, 2020 Author Posted February 27, 2020 OK, Walt. I asked Dan and he did not react when I showed him the difference. He's seen the screen shots. I am stuck now. It only takes half a day to this thread to be forced off the front page so other users must have more pressing needs than having a true WB. Goodness knows how they photograph an interior for a promo or a shirt for a catalogue and they are trying to guess the right WB I've posted a separate thread explaining the three reasons buying AP would be a total waste of money (no matter how cheap it is). Earlier today someone else at Affinity said their software developers were too busy to comment on individual problems. Oh dear! I don't give in easily but knocking my head against a brick wall for a week is about my limit. Tony Quote
Murfee Posted February 27, 2020 Posted February 27, 2020 2 minutes ago, TonyGamble said: I am stuck now Hi Tony, I understand your frustrations. I am also a professional photographer, I have never had any issues with the white balance but I work on a Mac, the tint slider also adjusts as needed. While you are in the Develop Persona, go to View > Customise Tools now drag the white balance picker to the left toolbar, this should resolve the fact that it is missing. What RAW format are you working with? I was just wondering if your camera model is fully supported. Quote
TonyGamble Posted February 27, 2020 Author Posted February 27, 2020 Thanks Murfee I'm not offered it to be dragged. RAW? Oly e-m5 mkii Quote
Old Bruce Posted February 27, 2020 Posted February 27, 2020 11 minutes ago, TonyGamble said: I'm not offered it to be dragged. That is so very wrong! All I can suggest is to delete the Application and re download and install again, because Something is seriously borked with your version of Photo. Quote Mac Pro (Late 2013) Mac OS 12.7.6 Affinity Designer 2.5.7 | Affinity Photo 2.5.7 | Affinity Publisher 2.5.7 | Beta versions as they appear. I have never mastered color management, period, so I cannot help with that.
Murfee Posted February 27, 2020 Posted February 27, 2020 40 minutes ago, TonyGamble said: Thanks Murfee I'm not offered it to be dragged. RAW? Oly e-m5 mkii I agree with @Old Bruce, something seems very wrong with the version you are trying to use. I would delete all trace from your system then try another free trial. It might be better to wait a few days for the new 1.8 version to be available as a trial. It should give you another 10 days due to it being a different version. Quote
TonyGamble Posted February 27, 2020 Author Posted February 27, 2020 Thanks guys. I did actually install 1.8 this morning - it was offered when I fired up. I'll delete the whole app and start again. Can you point me to any hidden stuff in, say. Users that I ought to delete by hand? Tony Quote
Old Bruce Posted February 27, 2020 Posted February 27, 2020 1 minute ago, TonyGamble said: Thanks guys. Can you point me to any hidden stuff in, say. Users that I ought to delete by hand? Tony /Users/[YOUR_NAME]/Library/Containers/com.seriflabs.affinitydesigner - or - photo - or - publisher Quote Mac Pro (Late 2013) Mac OS 12.7.6 Affinity Designer 2.5.7 | Affinity Photo 2.5.7 | Affinity Publisher 2.5.7 | Beta versions as they appear. I have never mastered color management, period, so I cannot help with that.
smadell Posted February 27, 2020 Posted February 27, 2020 TONYGAMBLE!!! DON'T DELETE ANYTHING!!! (unless you already have...) Before you delete and re-install... The tools you are looking at are NOT from the Develop persona. You are looking at the tools from the TONE MAPPING persona. No wonder it didn't work! In the list of Persona icons at the top left, there is the (i) Photo persona; (ii) Liquify persona; (iii) Develop persona - shaped like a hexagon; (iv) the Tone Mapping person - shaped like converging vertical bars; and (v) the Export persona. When you open a Raw file, it will open in the Develop persona. If you click on Develop, you enter the Photo persona. To re-enter the Develop persona, click on the THIRD icon in the row; you have entered the Tone Mapping persona, where you will not find what you want. Also, from what I've seen, when you're in the Develop persona working on a Raw file, the White Balance tool will adjust not only the Blue-Yellow axis, but also the Magenta-Green axis. Remember that, if you develop a Raw file and then re-enter the Develop persona at some later time, you are NO LONGER working on a Raw file. Murfee 1 Quote Affinity Photo 2, Affinity Publisher 2, Affinity Designer 2 (latest retail versions) - desktop & iPad Culling - FastRawViewer; Raw Developer - Capture One Pro; Asset Management - Photo Supreme Mac Studio with M2 Max (2023); 64 GB RAM; macOS 13 (Ventura); Mac Studio Display - iPad Air 4th Gen; iPadOS 18
Murfee Posted February 27, 2020 Posted February 27, 2020 6 minutes ago, smadell said: The tools you are looking at are NOT from the Develop persona Well spotted Smaddell...I didn't even consider the Tone Mapping Persona. I guess that Tony was doing a HDR Merge rather than developing a RAW Quote
TonyGamble Posted February 27, 2020 Author Posted February 27, 2020 Thanks smadell Two screen shots follow. My DxO one you have seen. The other one is Affinity. When I have selected my three HDR RAWs I untick 'Tone Map HDR image'. As soon as the files are merged I click Develop Persona and the WB icon in the left hand column (OK maybe I was accidentally using Tone Mapping but not this time). You'll see the result. The Tint bar is at 0%. No matter where I move the WB picker the Tint stays at zero and I can see the Temperature moving. In the screen shot I cannot get the tiles white - and look at the teacher's complexion, flesh tone in DxO and yellow in Affinity. I have tried this on several other files. I can never move Tint off zero. Quote
TonyGamble Posted February 27, 2020 Author Posted February 27, 2020 I guess that Tony was doing a HDR Merge rather than developing a RAW I am. Are you telling me that 'New HDR merge' can't be done from three RAW files? T Quote
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