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1 hour ago, Chris B said:

Do you happen to have the link? I'd like to make sure we're looking at the same post! :) 

This one. Helvetica Neue appears here, too, and probably not the OpenType PS version at least from Adobe, as I have that, and Frutiger, and many other super families, and they list just fine in Affinity apps. I basically have Type 1 fonts only for the base 35 fonts, but do have the usual mix from diverse office apps, etc. so I' m no font purist, and I do not use font manager on my laptop where I use Affinity apps. But I do know that even a minor name conflict can cause strange problems so I avoid installing any fonts that are likely to share family names from different sources (and at least try to avoid having mixed Type 1s, TrueType and OpenType fonts even remotely sharing the family name).

The topic of the beta forum involved hundreds of fonts, and probably a mixed bag of high-quality and less-so fonts. 

As OP of this  new topic has less than 300 fonts installed, I hope this can be easily solved, and also helps you improve the enumeration routines (e.g., separate fonts using different font technologies in their own groups, if that could have any role in avoiding name conflicts).

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Thanks for suggestions. I only have a Type 1 version of Helvetica, Helvetica Neue and Frutiger.
I installed them individually and there aren't any name conflicts with TTF or OTF's.
Apart from the Windows system fonts I have only installed 4 new fonts on my new PC at this stage.

The Frutiger styles have always appeared on the Affinty list, but Helvetica is consistently 'inconsistent'. Both fonts are Type 1.
I opened up latest beta version 1.8 today and complete list of installed Helvetica styles was available - so I will check again tomorrow.
I'll check out Trans Type if the problem continues.


On 10/6/2019 at 1:04 AM, Lagarto said:

My guess is that the cause for these problems is either of the superfamilies Helvetica Neue, or Frutiger (or some other where you have several substyles grouped under the same family), especially if you have mixed Adobe Type 1 (.PFB + .PFM pair) and TrueType/OpenType versions, since this is likely to cause name conflicts which may result in this kind of strange behavior. There is at least one post on Windows Publisher beta forum that is similar to this case.

I would start by uninstalling all Type 1 fonts and seeing if that already helps. Then re-installing one-by-one other than fonts from superfamilies, and finally pinpoint the one that causes the error.

Adobe apps arrange fonts more cleverly, and do not depend on Type 1 kind of meta data returned by system font enumeration that is often too generic (based on old 4-style family grouping), so that explains why you won't see this problem in InDesign etc.


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I installed all 51 Type 1 Helvetica Neue fonts from Adobe FontFolio 8 on one of my computers, and also installed Affinity Publisher there. I'll follow if I experience any odd font issues.

I checked also how TransType 4 groups these fonts. They are a mixed bag, and guesses this app makes to create menu name groupings (that work as regular, italic, bold and bold italic styles) are really odd at times, so even with this tool, you'd need to see some trouble in trying to arrange the fonts of this family in a meaningful way. 

See below, the pink assignments are mappings where TransType is "uncertain" about its suggestions. It's mostly pink, and these are genuine fonts from Adobe, and I have no other Helvetica fonts on this system! This shows well what applications need to do when they enumerate older fonts. Affinity Publisher needs to do some extra work when it eliminates faux formatting (which e.g. applications like Word or Microsoft Publisher allow without hesitation, leading in problems at print time). 

If I renamed these fonts, I'd consider using the kind of typographical family names suggested by TransType, that shows in the family name the width and weight of the font, rather than using the full typographical name (like "Helvetica Neue 55 Roman") as the family name, and then grouping 56 Italic, 75 Bold and 76 Bold Italic under the same family name as italic, bold and bold italic styles for the family (this is how Windows Control Panel Fonts applet shows these fonts).

Transtype also makes silly mistakes, e.g. instead of placing Helvetica Neue 75 as the bold member of the Helvetica Neue family, it has placed the outline version there.


Anyway, so far these Adobe Type 1 versions seem to work correctly in Affinity apps. The 51 fonts show mostly as groups of 2 fonts per family, but that is typographically correct.

Adobe apps can group their own Type 1 fonts as if they were OpenType versions, but they have the extra knowledge and mappings readily at hand. It would of course be nice if other apps could do the same, but as long as fonts from these kinds of "good" sources show on the menus, I personally think it is enough.



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Having now compared my list of Helvetica Neue with yours, I can say that they are identical so I do not think these fonts could be cause for this error. Affinity Publisher seems to list them similarly as Control Panel's Fonts applet (e.g., Helvetica 55 Roman showing as a family containing 56, 75 and 76 as styles). This is just fine and technically correct (even if unsatisfactory in terms of usability) and I do not think there is any point in renaming these fonts with a utility like TransType. 

However, if there is no Font manager involved, there is still a good chance that there is a naming conflict that confuses the font enumeration, and shows as more or less randomly missing fonts.


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Thanks Lagarto and Chris B.

I have learnt a lot from this process. I haven't had to think much about installing fonts before.

It looks like the issue may be solved.
I uninstalled all fonts from Windows (Except system fonts)

I ran every file I had for Helvetica fonts through TransType4  (which were stored in various folders) .
Including .PFM and .PFB.
I got a few pink assignments at first, but as I kept adding files they all went away. I'm assuming the file info may have got mixed up during multiple copies?

Anyhow the end result was totally clean list in TransType4...Untitled-1.thumb.png.5dfb7048d0603a37ee53ca36d55d5c9d.png

I converted them to OpenType PS.otf. and directed them all to a single folder. However they ended up splitting into many folders each containing 1-4 styles.
So it was a bit laborious to go through and install them individually but I did it anyway. I didn't need all styles but I wanted to see if they all listed.


After a restart I opened AFDesigner  (Beta) and Publisher (older version) and all fonts are now listed correctly and in Families. 79 styles listed under Helvetica Neue.
They also now appear in the Windows 10 Font list.
I did all of this with the Trial version of TT4 but I'm going to buy it because I don't want to convert and install everything right now.

I'm hoping that everything remains stable from now on. Really appreciate all the advice Gentlemen  - I had no idea how to fix the problem.






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6 minutes ago, ChrisNZAK said:


I did all of this with the Trial version of TT4 but I'm going to buy it

TransType is one of the best utilities regarding fonts there is. And especially so if using older--and a lot of newer--fonts. It isn't perfect, in fact doing a family this morning I fixed two fonts of a large family after using TT. But it sure takes a lot of the work out of fixing fonts.

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5 hours ago, ChrisNZAK said:

Thanks Lagarto and Chris B.

You're welcome!

I am still not convinced that the culprit was Helvetica Neue (as you seemed to have exactly the family names and style groupings that are included in Adobe FontFolio 8 versions). However the fonts might have had inherently inadequate typographical information so adding this (as regards font's width and weight) may help them to get organized better in apps that arrange fonts based on typographical information, in addition to allow you use more descriptive family names -- which you seem to have done now and get fonts nicely organized under Affinity Publisher, so congratulations!


5 hours ago, ChrisNZAK said:

However they ended up splitting into many folders each containing 1-4 styles.
So it was a bit laborious to go through and install them individually but I did it anyway.

In the future, you can avoid it, if you want to:




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