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Asking for Tablet recommendation for Affinity Designer/Photo


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On 8/30/2019 at 2:19 PM, Scungio said:

I have the large 12.9 inch iPad Pro second gen and the first gen Apple Pencil. I also have the iPad 2018, 9.7 inch model. To me I love it as much or more than the various Wacom products I have had over the years.

The apps have started to come to iOS. You have the Affinity products of course, but also Procreate and Clip Studio Paint. There are those that hate iOS file management, and supposedly there are big things in store for iOS 13 but really, I have been getting along fine with Sratospherix FileBrowser as my Mac OS Finder replacement or iOS. Readdle's Documents is another worthy Finder replacement for iOS.

I am not a big fan of the second gen Apple Pencil. Yes, it appears better in most regards but fails me in customization. With the first one I can use an assortment of custom pencil grips. I have always preferred grips with pens and pencils. I am partial to this UK company named Ego that makes Apple Pencil grips. But now with the double tap functionality of the Apple Pencil 2 how do I do that if I have a pencil grip? How do I charge it with a pencil grip on it?? I am in the minority on this I know but I will really miss my first gen Apple Pencil when I upgrade to a new iPad Pro in a year or two.

It will be interesting for Mac users how Apple's Sidecar works out and develops. Could an iPad Pro be a replacement for a Ciniq? Could Apple make even larger iPad Pros?? Who knows?

It is important I think to not try and shoehorn everything into one device or expect one device to be great at everything. There is a reason why I have a Mac Pro and a Ryzen PC, why I have a laptop and iPads, why I have a Wacom Intuos Pro medium sized tablet and an XP Pen 15.6 Pro. I like to change things up and sometimes things work better in certain situations. Pick the right tool for the job at hand.

For example, say you want to do a pattern, a repeating pattern, have it be a vector. Yeah, some may go into Illustrator to do that, some might even do it in Affinity Designer and use symbols as a workaround to get it done. Me? I first turn to Lost Minds Patternnodes 2. It is this parametric, node based app that gives you so many options and possibilities. You can even do animations with it. Anyway, you could develop this repeating pattern, really complex and then export it out to use in Designer. But this app is only on Mac OS, so I would use the Mac Pro for that. As I have gotten older I have tried to become platform agnostic, and not tie my wagon to any one OS but at the same time I try and take advantage of each OS and what it has to offer.

Thanks. 

Patternnodes is new to me and after having a play it's something I really like, so thanks for the mention.

I have been busy on ebay selling a few old stuff i don't need (money in the Attic as we say in UK). My budget is now up to £900!!! A few more sales of ole aquarium lights and pumps and i should have near £1200. 

So thinking of splitting this between these offerings:

1 - iPad Pro 12.9 3rd gen

2 - XP-Pen Artist22E Pro 22inch

3 - Wacom Wacom Intuos Pro Pen Tablet (Size: L) 

If i can get the iPad Pro 12.9 for a decent price, I will go for the Wacom which gives me a balance for now.

 

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On 8/30/2019 at 3:19 PM, Scungio said:

Lost Minds Patternnodes 2. It is this parametric, node based app that gives you so many options and possibilities.

Then you will like Nodebox, too.  https://www.nodebox.net/

and Processing, no node UI but generative, too. https://processing.org/

macOS 10.14.6, MacBookPro Retina 15" + Eizo 27"

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My preference : 3,2,1. Unless you BADLY need a mobile sketching platform on the go. In that case nothing beats the iPad pro. UNLESS... would be for painting under strong sunlight. For line-art inking/pencils on a Starbacks or whatever the, er, safe pub, it's really good. For getting you first a solid work horse, nope, that keeps being my 2c. That's the Wacom L, IMO. The XP-PEN 22E would leave you a lot of money for other matters. Even getting your self a Deco 03 (or their Deco Pro thing), so you'd get a classic tablet for hours or days where you can't stand the 8 hours smashed to the screen. Indeed, XP-PEN + Ergotron arm + Deco 03, and ur still not over the budget... The Deco 03 is pretty functional. Just that the precision of the Wacom L is imo a wet dream for illustration. So, the W. L and the 22E : Close match, as with 900 pounds u get a lot of extra money to get you a decent medium size classic.

I for sure would get me  the Wacom L.  And that said I don't disagree with Scungio in the way that could be said that iPad pro is an EXCELLENT companion (not a full replacement...so....getting it without having yet your workhorse....). Once one has the workhorse, and for me this is both in the computer/processor/OS matter, and also in the sense of having a tablet that lets you work 10 hours easily without ergonomic damage (or minimized). Specially through the months/years of steady work. Anyway, I recommend not to go over 8. In final delivers I've gone in 20 hour sessions (a note for other readers, not us three...). I've learnt not to that anymore, EVER. No matter what. Having worked steadily with a Cintiq 12 WX (12 inches screen, so, too) professionally for some months short of a year, I can very safely say that that size is NOT for 8- 10 hours of continued work , though even just months. Not for the screen, neither for the tablet. There might be people -many- saying otherwise: We'll check how's health in 5 -8 years. :s . And not that I wish anyone  getting a health prob! lol. Not even getting a light cold. But is like everything, and in that I fully agree with Scungio:  If considered a companion after getting your workhorse solution (IMO, a Ryzen or Mac with good specs + a classic tablet), then both a display-tablet (the top 22 XP or the top 22 Huion, but xp is very similar and at the best price now) AND an iPad are AMAZING companion tools for short (2-3 hours, imo) sessions and giving variety to your work day. For a hobbyst of the kind of 2 hours sessions (and I don't say it randomly, that number), in the field of illustration, an iPad does imo suffice, tho. IF you are fine with the OS issues, like color calibration flexibility, files (even with the iOS 13, iPadOS  13 improvements -finally can zip/unzip files, yay. Lol. And pencil latency cut by half, that's good- or helper file browsing apps), and mostly certain industry standard apps compatibility and inability to load them on your OS, and tablet hardware limits (ram an Metal limit for canvases of like 1.5 or 2 meters long at required 300dpi (and some people DO require it tho for a painting could be fine 200...under some circumstances... not really for book/other printed stuff targets, tho)...I wouldn't be able in anyway to work on my most key current gig, for example) then.... in that particular situation of those not being a prob (aka hobby use) , is best to skip everything else and get the iPad. I for sure wouldn't get a MS Surface for sketching (strongly dislike the wobble or high stabilizer to get it just right, and palm rejection issues in several apps) but would get an iPad pro instead. For exclusively fast sketches, even an iPad 2018. 

Besides all that... I have compared thoroughly drawing, inking and painting on 12 and 12,9 inches and 22 and + .... there's no point in even comparing doing a complex project in that (both screen and tablet gesture space) or a 22 inches screen and tablet. My Intuos XL is 65 cm wide, and couldn't like it more.... This thing has helped me produce tons of work ver 11 years. Very fast and comfortably.

Long story short: I do believe an iPad is a very nice tool to have once you get first the workhorse solution that have no technical limits in software/pro market apps/OS, tablet size,  ergonomic position (and so allow longer periods of work time without physical issues appearing after some months (or days)) and all. For a 2 hours a day hobbyist with no clients, this surely wouldn't apply. What Scungio has at home is the ideal tool set in every freaking sense, but not every one has that budget  ;). 

 

EDIT:  Wait... you said 1200 pounds. If math and the exchanger thing isn't failing me, this is more than enough to get you both the Wacom L and and XP 22E pro. That's an amazing combo. Or the Wacom L and a Ryzen, lol... 386 pounds for the Wacom L at the Wacom UK store... leaves u with 814 pounds , that's 895 euros. I quite well know that you get a really nice latest 3rd gen Ryzen (if already having your monitor, the usual thing) with quite less than that (500 - 700 euros, mid-high range mainstream). While just the iPad alone, at least first hand from Apple, is 969 pounds in the Uk store. And the 64 gb seems to be too risky. the 256 version is 1119 pounds (1230 euros)... You're still on time to get a Deco 03 (and it's a medium size) from XP-PEN's summer discount with the remaing 87 euros from your total 1200 pounds after getting the ipad. A medium classic tablet for the computer + the iPad ain't a bad deal , either. One that I wouldn't do, ever. But it's another possibility.

AD, AP and APub. V1.x and V2.x Windows 10 and Windows 11.  
Ryzen 9 3900X, 32 GB RAM,  RTX 3060 12GB, Wacom Intuos XL, Wacom L. 
Eizo ColorEdge CS 2420 monitor. Windows 10.
HP Omen 16-b1010ns 12700H, 32GB DDR5 (corsair), nVidia RTX 3060 6GB + Huion Kamvas 22 drawing screen, Windows 11.

 

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Many thanks for all the help I have gotten here, it has certainly made me think twice and then some before buying.

Can some tell me the difference between these Wacom Pro Intuos Large models:

 

Intuos PRO Large PTH-860-N (seen on Amazon UK)

PTH860 (seen on the Wacom US store)

I have seen these model numbers on a few sites an wondering whether they are the same model, if not what is the difference. 

What is the 'N' for?

Edited by DXAffinity
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On 9/2/2019 at 8:49 PM, SrPx said:

My preference : 3,2,1. Unless you BADLY need a mobile sketching platform on the go. In that case nothing beats the iPad pro. UNLESS... would be for painting under strong sunlight. For line-art inking/pencils on a Starbacks or whatever the, er, safe pub, it's really good. For getting you first a solid work horse, nope, that keeps being my 2c. That's the Wacom L, IMO. The XP-PEN 22E would leave you a lot of money for other matters. Even getting your self a Deco 03 (or their Deco Pro thing), so you'd get a classic tablet for hours or days where you can't stand the 8 hours smashed to the screen. Indeed, XP-PEN + Ergotron arm + Deco 03, and ur still not over the budget... The Deco 03 is pretty functional. Just that the precision of the Wacom L is imo a wet dream for illustration. So, the W. L and the 22E : Close match, as with 900 pounds u get a lot of extra money to get you a decent medium size classic.

I for sure would get me  the Wacom L.  And that said I don't disagree with Scungio in the way that could be said that iPad pro is an EXCELLENT companion (not a full replacement...so....getting it without having yet your workhorse....). Once one has the workhorse, and for me this is both in the computer/processor/OS matter, and also in the sense of having a tablet that lets you work 10 hours easily without ergonomic damage (or minimized). Specially through the months/years of steady work. Anyway, I recommend not to go over 8. In final delivers I've gone in 20 hour sessions (a note for other readers, not us three...). I've learnt not to that anymore, EVER. No matter what. Having worked steadily with a Cintiq 12 WX (12 inches screen, so, too) professionally for some months short of a year, I can very safely say that that size is NOT for 8- 10 hours of continued work , though even just months. Not for the screen, neither for the tablet. There might be people -many- saying otherwise: We'll check how's health in 5 -8 years. :s . And not that I wish anyone  getting a health prob! lol. Not even getting a light cold. But is like everything, and in that I fully agree with Scungio:  If considered a companion after getting your workhorse solution (IMO, a Ryzen or Mac with good specs + a classic tablet), then both a display-tablet (the top 22 XP or the top 22 Huion, but xp is very similar and at the best price now) AND an iPad are AMAZING companion tools for short (2-3 hours, imo) sessions and giving variety to your work day. For a hobbyst of the kind of 2 hours sessions (and I don't say it randomly, that number), in the field of illustration, an iPad does imo suffice, tho. IF you are fine with the OS issues, like color calibration flexibility, files (even with the iOS 13, iPadOS  13 improvements -finally can zip/unzip files, yay. Lol. And pencil latency cut by half, that's good- or helper file browsing apps), and mostly certain industry standard apps compatibility and inability to load them on your OS, and tablet hardware limits (ram an Metal limit for canvases of like 1.5 or 2 meters long at required 300dpi (and some people DO require it tho for a painting could be fine 200...under some circumstances... not really for book/other printed stuff targets, tho)...I wouldn't be able in anyway to work on my most key current gig, for example) then.... in that particular situation of those not being a prob (aka hobby use) , is best to skip everything else and get the iPad. I for sure wouldn't get a MS Surface for sketching (strongly dislike the wobble or high stabilizer to get it just right, and palm rejection issues in several apps) but would get an iPad pro instead. For exclusively fast sketches, even an iPad 2018. 

Besides all that... I have compared thoroughly drawing, inking and painting on 12 and 12,9 inches and 22 and + .... there's no point in even comparing doing a complex project in that (both screen and tablet gesture space) or a 22 inches screen and tablet. My Intuos XL is 65 cm wide, and couldn't like it more.... This thing has helped me produce tons of work ver 11 years. Very fast and comfortably.

Long story short: I do believe an iPad is a very nice tool to have once you get first the workhorse solution that have no technical limits in software/pro market apps/OS, tablet size,  ergonomic position (and so allow longer periods of work time without physical issues appearing after some months (or days)) and all. For a 2 hours a day hobbyist with no clients, this surely wouldn't apply. What Scungio has at home is the ideal tool set in every freaking sense, but not every one has that budget  ;). 

 

EDIT:  Wait... you said 1200 pounds. If math and the exchanger thing isn't failing me, this is more than enough to get you both the Wacom L and and XP 22E pro. That's an amazing combo. Or the Wacom L and a Ryzen, lol... 386 pounds for the Wacom L at the Wacom UK store... leaves u with 814 pounds , that's 895 euros. I quite well know that you get a really nice latest 3rd gen Ryzen (if already having your monitor, the usual thing) with quite less than that (500 - 700 euros, mid-high range mainstream). While just the iPad alone, at least first hand from Apple, is 969 pounds in the Uk store. And the 64 gb seems to be too risky. the 256 version is 1119 pounds (1230 euros)... You're still on time to get a Deco 03 (and it's a medium size) from XP-PEN's summer discount with the remaing 87 euros from your total 1200 pounds after getting the ipad. A medium classic tablet for the computer + the iPad ain't a bad deal , either. One that I wouldn't do, ever. But it's another possibility.

Thanks. 

I have settled on the Wacom L as my first buy. Just looking for the right deal now e.g the latest model at the right price (2nd hand or new).

Is there any harm in getting an older model? What will i be loosing out on, if any?

 

Cheers for all the help and advice. 

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58 minutes ago, DXAffinity said:

Many thanks for all the help I have gotten here, it has certainly made me think twice and then some before buying.

Can some tell me the difference between these Wacom Pro Intuos Large models:

 

Intuos PRO Large PTH-860-N (seen on Amazon UK)

PTH860 (seen on the Wacom US store)

I have seen these model numbers on a few sites an wondering whether they are the same model, if not what is the difference. 

What is the 'N' for?

Seems it refers to "North" and -S to "South" (when it's tablet-whatever-S. Don't confuse when refers to tablet size, with a space, ie Intuos Pro S ). And that most prolly means the region of commercial distribution... probably hemisphere wise, or some other distribution. Seen it without the distinction in many places. It's....IMO  the totally freaking same tablet, to all what matters. The Large: PTH-860 , which is all what matters. Most probably, the region has its influence in the drivers and software being offered in a set of languages or another.  For some countries this can be crucial. If you are fine with English text in drivers, you're fine in any case. Anyway, th software included is of no super great value for any pro or advanced hobbyist, and anyway, u'll download the drivers, the most current or a version that is not imcompatible with A or B software, as ain't true that Wacom produces always faulty free drivers. Typically the latest one is best.

The LA (latin versions in many hardware devices, wacom and whatnot) versions, or other produced for regions of the world not being EU or US/Canada "can" come with some traps, in the sense that some of those versions are actual re-launch of older tablets, that are pretty fine, but sold as current, while is older tech, so that they can sell too in markets where the economic capability could be lower. The issue is that these are often mixed in Amazon , and u might be fooled by the low price. An example of the LA and a similar case with another similar situation sold in India, some time ago, was actually a "refurbished" (not really, was an official product) previous bamboo, so to sell medium size tablets in those regions at a competitive price there. This will not happen as often as the regions are growing/developing.

A Large: PTH-860 anyways, is the real (current at time of this post) L thing. With or without -N. Now, a dealer can wreck things badly and sell a small size as a Large PTH-860-S , so, indeed, I prefer if I see not letters attached. It'd be rare to happen, tho. But happens in the best places (you can always as for get the right one with no shipping charges after the fact, usually) . I got as first hand this now arcane XL as the 'DTP' (as they wanted to make a distinction per professional fields : CAD vs 2D graphic design, etc) model, while , even being a local shop, they actually game me the CAD model. I liked a lot the cad mouse, so didn't went back to the shop  :D  . In the end I did not use the mouse at all, to avoid any scratching possibility of the surface. The two tablets function just the same. This happens often among two exact main models.

 

AD, AP and APub. V1.x and V2.x Windows 10 and Windows 11.  
Ryzen 9 3900X, 32 GB RAM,  RTX 3060 12GB, Wacom Intuos XL, Wacom L. 
Eizo ColorEdge CS 2420 monitor. Windows 10.
HP Omen 16-b1010ns 12700H, 32GB DDR5 (corsair), nVidia RTX 3060 6GB + Huion Kamvas 22 drawing screen, Windows 11.

 

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49 minutes ago, DXAffinity said:

Thanks. 

I have settled on the Wacom L as my first buy. Just looking for the right deal now e.g the latest model at the right price (2nd hand or new).

Is there any harm in getting an older model? What will i be loosing out on, if any?

 

Cheers for all the help and advice. 

Ouch... I would not buy a Wacom second hand...you never know how the user treated it...

In the other side, if you have strong trust on the source which is selling it to you, are very sure you can ask for full refund and not be charged on shipping, it can be worth the risk, as one thing about Wacom is that they're darn durable. IE, if I'd have to sell my XL now (never will) I'd have my conscience 200% in peace by doing so, as I'd know it's in pristine state despite having produced tons of works in decades with it. Maybe a Bestbuy or Genius from that time would be broken in someway (or hardware recycled) at this moment in time.

Your budget is several times past the non paper (BTW, the naming for the paper model is with a -P, if I'm not wrong) one... I'd buy first hand to get the Wacom's warranty and all. And also have the peace of mind that it will come perfect (they'd send you a new one at no charge if anything is wrong. Which might happen more with cintiqs, and a lot more with Companion/Studio, but with the classic tablets is extremely rare to happen).

That is... I would personally go for the original first hand thing.

If you are asking if going for an older model not the PTH-860 ...Hmmm... neither I'd do that (if anything, a second hand L of THAT model) . Because is the gen that has come with pro pen 2, 8k pressure levels and a ton of other tracking and other improvements. Many that add up. (ie, a huge difference between my Intuos 4 XL and this model, the current L being much better than mine in every single area).

AD, AP and APub. V1.x and V2.x Windows 10 and Windows 11.  
Ryzen 9 3900X, 32 GB RAM,  RTX 3060 12GB, Wacom Intuos XL, Wacom L. 
Eizo ColorEdge CS 2420 monitor. Windows 10.
HP Omen 16-b1010ns 12700H, 32GB DDR5 (corsair), nVidia RTX 3060 6GB + Huion Kamvas 22 drawing screen, Windows 11.

 

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The second hand stuff always involves a risk, and can get broken faster later, maybe. But if not curved by weight, scratched in the surface (or in the single case of my XL, attached cable, a broken cable can't be replaced... all L models have the cable non attached. I never have it in a forced bending) , neither dust has gotten too much through the cracks and function buttons... u can have then such tablet for a bunch of years more (based on this xl having now 11 years of non stop full day use). You mostly need the source/shop to REALLY give you the reliability on a no question asked full refund if anything happens. And test it VERY thoroughly during one or two weeks, and at the shop and later on at home, look at every single inch of it digging for any issue. A friend of mine got so his cintiq 21UX, been with it many years. Of course, that is particularly worse than any of today's cintiqs. And in terms of capabilities and accuracy, surely worse than current XPs and Huions. Still, not for much, and still are pro devices , good color calibration by default (at least not insanely bad, as happens with many current cintiq alternatives (both huion and xp) , which you have to calibrate by hardware yes or yes) and a quite decent color range.

Hardware has its programmed obsolescence, or just number of hours till it goes the way of the dodo.  I had a GTX 275 till recently, and it simply end up burning its diodes. A repair technician told me several of so many years were coming with the same issue at quite the same timing, totally fried.

Now, how much of that factor is in Wacom... well, if I take my XL and Small (S) as an example.... pretty high possibilities of lasting an unknown but nice number of years.

AD, AP and APub. V1.x and V2.x Windows 10 and Windows 11.  
Ryzen 9 3900X, 32 GB RAM,  RTX 3060 12GB, Wacom Intuos XL, Wacom L. 
Eizo ColorEdge CS 2420 monitor. Windows 10.
HP Omen 16-b1010ns 12700H, 32GB DDR5 (corsair), nVidia RTX 3060 6GB + Huion Kamvas 22 drawing screen, Windows 11.

 

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30 minutes ago, SrPx said:

Seems it refers to "North" and -S to "South" (when it's tablet-whatever-S. Don't confuse when refers to tablet size, with a space, ie Intuos Pro S ). And that most prolly means the region of commercial distribution... probably hemisphere wise, or some other distribution. Seen it without the distinction in many places. It's....IMO  the totally freaking same tablet, to all what matters. The Large: PTH-860 , which is all what matters. Most probably, the region has its influence in the drivers and software being offered in a set of languages or another.  For some countries this can be crucial. If you are fine with English text in drivers, you're fine in any case. Anyway, th software included is of no super great value for any pro or advanced hobbyist, and anyway, u'll download the drivers, the most current or a version that is not imcompatible with A or B software, as ain't true that Wacom produces always faulty free drivers. Typically the latest one is best.

The LA (latin versions in many hardware devices, wacom and whatnot) versions, or other produced for regions of the world not being EU or US/Canada "can" come with some traps, in the sense that some of those versions are actual re-launch of older tablets, that are pretty fine, but sold as current, while is older tech, so that they can sell too in markets where the economic capability could be lower. The issue is that these are often mixed in Amazon , and u might be fooled by the low price. An example of the LA and a similar case with another similar situation sold in India, some time ago, was actually a "refurbished" (not really, was an official product) previous bamboo, so to sell medium size tablets in those regions at a competitive price there. This will not happen as often as the regions are growing/developing.

A Large: PTH-860 anyways, is the real (current at time of this post) L thing. With or without -N. Now, a dealer can wreck things badly and sell a small size as a Large PTH-860-S , so, indeed, I prefer if I see not letters attached. It'd be rare to happen, tho. But happens in the best places (you can always as for get the right one with no shipping charges after the fact, usually) . I got as first hand this now arcane XL as the 'DTP' (2D graphic design, etc) model, while , even being a local shop, they actually game me the CAD model. I liked a lot the cad mouse, so didn't went back to the shop  :D  . In the end I did not use the mouse at all, to avoid any scratching possibility of the surface. The two tablets function just the same. This happens often among two exact main models.

 

Many thanks, it has helped my a lot understand the various Wacom offerings.

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25 minutes ago, SrPx said:

Ouch... I would not buy a Wacom second hand...you never know how the user treated it...

In the other side, if you have strong trust on the source which is selling it to you, are very sure you can ask for full refund and not be charged on shipping, it can be worth the risk, as one thing about Wacom is that they're darn durable. IE, if I'd have to sell my XL now (never will) I'd have my conscience 200% in peace by doing so, as I'd know it's in pristine state despite having produced tons of works in decades with it. Maybe a Bestbuy or Genius from that time would be broken in someway (or hardware recycled) at this moment in time.

Your budget is several times past the non paper (BTW, the naming for the paper model is with a -P, if I'm not wrong) one... I'd buy first hand to get the Wacom's warranty and all. And also have the peace of mind that it will come perfect (they'd send you a new one at no charge if anything is wrong. Which might happen more with cintiqs, and a lot more with Companion/Studio, but with the classic tablets is extremely rare to happen).

That is... I would personally go for the original first hand thing.

If you are asking if going for an older model not the PTH-860 ...Hmmm... neither I'd do that (if anything, a second hand L of THAT model) . Because is the gen that has come with pro pen 2, 8k pressure levels and a ton of other tracking and other improvements. Many that add up. (ie, a huge difference between my Intuos 4 XL and this model, the current L being much better than mine in every single area).

Ok I will avoid 2nd hands then. Better be safe, and I need one for the long run.

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12 hours ago, DXAffinity said:

Many thanks, it has helped my a lot understand the various Wacom offerings.

 

13 hours ago, SrPx said:

Seems it refers to "North" and -S to "South" (when it's tablet-whatever-S. Don't confuse when refers to tablet size, with a space, ie Intuos Pro S ). And that most prolly means the region of commercial distribution... probably hemisphere wise, or some other distribution. Seen it without the distinction in many places. It's....IMO  the totally freaking same tablet, to all what matters. The Large: PTH-860 , which is all what matters. Most probably, the region has its influence in the drivers and software being offered in a set of languages or another.  For some countries this can be crucial. If you are fine with English text in drivers, you're fine in any case. Anyway, th software included is of no super great value for any pro or advanced hobbyist, and anyway, u'll download the drivers, the most current or a version that is not imcompatible with A or B software, as ain't true that Wacom produces always faulty free drivers. Typically the latest one is best.

The LA (latin versions in many hardware devices, wacom and whatnot) versions, or other produced for regions of the world not being EU or US/Canada "can" come with some traps, in the sense that some of those versions are actual re-launch of older tablets, that are pretty fine, but sold as current, while is older tech, so that they can sell too in markets where the economic capability could be lower. The issue is that these are often mixed in Amazon , and u might be fooled by the low price. An example of the LA and a similar case with another similar situation sold in India, some time ago, was actually a "refurbished" (not really, was an official product) previous bamboo, so to sell medium size tablets in those regions at a competitive price there. This will not happen as often as the regions are growing/developing.

A Large: PTH-860 anyways, is the real (current at time of this post) L thing. With or without -N. Now, a dealer can wreck things badly and sell a small size as a Large PTH-860-S , so, indeed, I prefer if I see not letters attached. It'd be rare to happen, tho. But happens in the best places (you can always as for get the right one with no shipping charges after the fact, usually) . I got as first hand this now arcane XL as the 'DTP' (as they wanted to make a distinction per professional fields : CAD vs 2D graphic design, etc) model, while , even being a local shop, they actually game me the CAD model. I liked a lot the cad mouse, so didn't went back to the shop  :D  . In the end I did not use the mouse at all, to avoid any scratching possibility of the surface. The two tablets function just the same. This happens often among two exact main models.

 

attached is the model number I am thinking of getting. It's at a great price ATM.

Looks like a japan import, so i am worried about warranty. I will save £64 if i buy this, not sure it's worth the hassle if I cant get warranty.

 

Any thoughts please.

Screenshot 2019-09-06 at 09.34.26.png

Edited by DXAffinity
updated price
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Er.  Get it from an oficial dealer, and be sure it can provide the warranty and etc. Careful with shady deals....

In amazon, the -k models of similar naming I'm finding say "Japan Import / no warranty ". 

If you ask my advice... nope, don't go there. Saving 64 pounds makes no sense for a product in this category and price. I'd rather go for a Deco 03 if I'm loosing the warranty, despite imo being a not so great (yet functional) product. Yet tho imo the Wacom L (in the right way of purchasing) is worth every penny.  And that's my 2c, anyway.... If at some point my XL breaks, Pro L is  my next purchase, if I can afford it at its moment. BTW, the Intuos 4 XL is one of the models with more complaints of nibs wearing off... I've used 2 nibs since I purchased , 11 years ago, still using the second (I believe the base contains 8 nibs). And they fixed the rough-nib wearing surface, or partially did, since then, in following models... So I'm gonna risk it and say that I must be a very careful user.... :D 

So, yeah. Anything you do, with warranty.

AD, AP and APub. V1.x and V2.x Windows 10 and Windows 11.  
Ryzen 9 3900X, 32 GB RAM,  RTX 3060 12GB, Wacom Intuos XL, Wacom L. 
Eizo ColorEdge CS 2420 monitor. Windows 10.
HP Omen 16-b1010ns 12700H, 32GB DDR5 (corsair), nVidia RTX 3060 6GB + Huion Kamvas 22 drawing screen, Windows 11.

 

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36 minutes ago, SrPx said:

Er.  Get it from an oficial dealer, and be sure it can provide the warranty and etc. Careful with shady deals....

In amazon, the -k models of similar naming I'm finding say "Japan Import / no warranty ". 

If you ask my advice... nope, don't go there. Saving 64 pounds makes no sense for a product in this category and price. I'd rather go for a Deco 03 if I'm loosing the warranty, despite imo being a not so great (yet functional) product. Yet tho imo the Wacom L (in the right way of purchasing) is worth every penny.  And that's my 2c, anyway.... If at some point my XL breaks, Pro L is  my next purchase, if I can afford it at its moment. BTW, the Intuos 4 XL is one of the models with more complaints of nibs wearing off... I've used 2 nibs since I purchased , 11 years ago, still using the second (I believe the base contains 8 nibs). And they fixed the rough-nib wearing surface, or partially did, since then, in following models... So I'm gonna risk it and say that I must be a very careful user.... :D 

So, yeah. Anything you do, with warranty.

My thoughts exactly. Thanks

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Update:

I have bought the Wacom Intuos PTH-860. arrived today. 

First impressions is that it is as large as I expected and needed. 

Second impression ...I will have a good play this week and see.

 

Question please:

Do I really need a Screen protector on this? 

So far I like the feel (tested on Krita and Affinity Designer so far). As it's not a "screen", will slight scratches be:

a- easy to do (i am naturally a light touch)

b- easy to remove.

 

Thanks.

 

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Well, a screen protector is for screens.. but  there are films for classic tablets, too (a total must is that it'd EXACTLY match the exact dimensions, usually if the model is officially supported in the product specs!). A heavy hand sketcher MUST get one of those, surely no matter what brand or model. IMO is more important to worry about putting soft nibs, though.

A light sketcher, as you seem to say you are (although that concept is relative, some people think they are but actually put quite some pressure) doesn't need at all to add a protector. By any means. In the times when I believe Wacom got more complaints is in the gen of Intuos (Pro) 4 (not called pro, then, just marketing gimmick, If I recall well... but ofc was the pro range)  coming from the great Intuos 3 glass.... as Wacom supposedly wanted to give a bit of resistance to approach a paper feel, and a lot of people rumored it was just to give the product not such a long life (as much as I think the Paper model, is a vehicle to sell Wacom's specific Ink, in this case that other suspicion was a stretch), so to have a reason to purchase a new one. Wacom does not have there its selling point (not in the business of producing "fast food"), but indeed in deluxe quality. So, I realized soon enough that it was like always in the net : The ones complaining make more noise than a *huge* mass of happy users.  You "see" the negative ones, you don't see the positive noise as much (happens exactly so with Affinity products, BTW). Also, an stats' fact. There's as much variety as stars in the sky. So, yep, they were completely honest , those users, when telling what happened to them. As I saw videos, and read many complaints... Statistics say no matter what should be an average care for a device, you will find always extreme points and a a lot of shades of grey in between those extremes. So, there are people that draw and paint over a wacom like when they scratch a pencil (or carve stone) breaking the tip even over wood or paper.... Those will have no freaking tablet sturdy enough, on earth.

Now, that said, the surface of a wacom tablet is not any more like the beautiful glass one in the Intuos 3 gen, which was a really good and durable set of devices. Those were really solid.

You need to use a soft tip (you can easily replace the tip it comes with. It is really EASIER than it looks like). As the default one, I notice in the second day that was MUCH more likely to produce scratches (is too hard!! ) than the softer one. It actually also produces a response to touch that I quite prefer (like a brush/felt pen, or at least a 5% of that feel). is not the felt one, I believe there's one like a felt. I just use one that is quite plastic, but quite smoother than the hard plastic that comes installed in the pen as default.

If you just make the SOFT tip slide over the tablet, -no need to become either paranoid about it, BTW-  well, then... doing so I have not scratched this much softer-surface Intuos 4 XL, not a single visible scratch in 11 years. There are microscopic scratches, surely, you can see them if put your head at table level and see with a light source in certain angle.  They do not matter at all. They do start to matter if you make a DEEP scratch where the pen does bump when passing over. They could also matter if, not being any of that nature, you usually press enough to have make like a central area in the tablet more "rough", like "textured", due to bazillions of micro scratches of  certain importance. Still would be functional, but not as pleasant. Unlike with a deep scratch/crack, the tablet with those zones will last functionally yet many years. Now, I've seen those. And I know how crappily a user puts pressure on a tablet by seeing his/her tablet, at a glance. A light sketcher wont ever produce any of those damages on the surface. My 11 years is with most days full day painting (and often large part of the night) ! and is almost 100% as new.

Do not even worry if you are a light sketcher, I mean, after putting the soft nib. You would RATHER prefer to replace a nib than wreck the tablet.  A new pen is not that expensive, or a new set of nibs. And I'm YET using my second nib of the 8!  :D 

Seriously, don't overthink it, just put that soft nib (no need for a tablet protector, IMO, and putting that can bring other probs...Besides, not easy to put WELL, there are risks) and don't press too hard. It'll become your automatic habit, you'll just draw and paint lightly and wont need to worry about it. After all, the usual pressure levels are really sensitive, that is, with light pressure you already get too much response (with the most extreme values that are yet useful for all  uses), so, getting subtle is also good for control reasons.

IMO, focus on getting control of the device, rather than not using it fully for fear to scratch it. It is WAY worse if you learn to use it even a single bit less due to fears, than actually scratching it (which wont happen if you aren't heavy handed) . Make a A LOT of exercises just drawing spirals, fast circles, parallels, long curves. Not worrying a single bit as you wont get them even slightly good at the beginning. But all those cr4ppy exercises will train the hand-screen coordination way faster than full pieces over years. A good thing is to do those exercises (I don't have a good link for that now)  like 15 -20 mins a day , then switch to making an actual project. After all, is all about working with it. For me is now like a glove, it just fits and works perfectly.

Sorry if you are an experienced tablet user or knew all this. One never knows...

Oh! Also, do NOT have any issue in setting the Photo, Krita, Photoshop, Corel Painter, Clip Studio Paint, or whatever your software is (and having the feature, all these have it)  with stabilizer ON. Do so. It makes getting the control of the lines A TON more enjoyable. U'll get there (being able to draw steady lines without stabilizers) anyway, but a fantastic method is to start with the level of line stabilizer that you'll need for functional and good quality lines for your projects work, don't be shy if need a high value, then go diminishing as you notice you go gaining control (and pushing a bit everyday, as if you get comfy in a stabilizer level, you don't improve in that)  over the lines. At some point you are able to fully disable the stabilizer (I wouldn't do so for zoomed-out in photo, tho). If you would never get comfortable enough to put the stabilizer off, that's 100% fine, too (the important part is that making art).  In the first place, it wasn't/isn't your fault. Because digital tablets , no matter if screen based or classic  -they both use a very limited magnetic grid-  do NOT have the level of accuracy your hand has (yeah, not even the cintiqs!!!). They add several factors that are what people notice, while being quite more accurate with a charcoal, pencil, or oil brush over canvas. So, nothing of this (line stabilizers) is "cheating", is just compensating for hardware having not reached yet the level of accuracy we humans have, as of yet. You are only approaching a bit to the control you would have with traditional media. If you go like I did, diminishing the stabilizer value, it means that simply your brain, and hand-screen (with classic tablets, as is a non issue in display-tablets, but this way you train for any situation, and become MUCH better once you handle a display-tablet, if ever do so) coordination is getting more used to it, not that you are becoming a better artist, just used to a new machine and its shortcomings.

Answering more specifically, nope, scratches, by a light hand sketcher, not easy/probable to be generated.

Easy to remove, a deep scratch : Not that I know. There might be a way, but I don't know any. And applying some product to it, or polishing the surface I'm afraid can lead to a quite, quite worse situation. I had to put on the shelf my lovely Intuos 1 A4, which had traveled with me through several game companies, just 'cause a total idiot happened to get drunk or sth in a company party, and sadly I wasn't there at the moment....  The guy (surely with help) really did sth nasty to produce those scratches. I still have it as a museum piece, and... well, you CAN use it, but the pencil will jump over those deep scratches, is not functional anymore. 

I have worked at many companies, be it games or software/agencies, and have used bestbuy tablets,  genius tablets,  Kurta, Summagraphics, Wacom volito, Wacom graphire, Wacom Bamboo, Intuos of several flavors. Never produced scratches. So, I might be saying that for certain type of user, scratches are NEVER an issue. They simply wont be created with really proper handling. It does not get scratched by a bad glance or something, lol.

Now, if you have kids or cats... yeah, totally different scenario.... is like having mates at a company that can't behave.... Just that you can't blame the former ones, and can't either have real control over the latter. So, better have the tablet ALWAYS out of reach of beasts of any size ..... :D 

AD, AP and APub. V1.x and V2.x Windows 10 and Windows 11.  
Ryzen 9 3900X, 32 GB RAM,  RTX 3060 12GB, Wacom Intuos XL, Wacom L. 
Eizo ColorEdge CS 2420 monitor. Windows 10.
HP Omen 16-b1010ns 12700H, 32GB DDR5 (corsair), nVidia RTX 3060 6GB + Huion Kamvas 22 drawing screen, Windows 11.

 

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On 9/9/2019 at 10:10 PM, DXAffinity said:

Second impression ...I will have a good play this week and see.

To get an in-depth conclusion, I'd at least give it a full month of heavy training (at least 3 hours per day).

AD, AP and APub. V1.x and V2.x Windows 10 and Windows 11.  
Ryzen 9 3900X, 32 GB RAM,  RTX 3060 12GB, Wacom Intuos XL, Wacom L. 
Eizo ColorEdge CS 2420 monitor. Windows 10.
HP Omen 16-b1010ns 12700H, 32GB DDR5 (corsair), nVidia RTX 3060 6GB + Huion Kamvas 22 drawing screen, Windows 11.

 

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7 hours ago, SrPx said:

 

Well, a screen protector is for screens.. but  there are films for classic tablets, too (a total must is that it'd EXACTLY match the exact dimensions, usually if the model is officially supported in the product specs!). A heavy hand sketcher MUST get one of those, surely no matter what brand or model. IMO is more important to worry about putting soft nibs, though.

A light sketcher, as you seem to say you are (although that concept is relative, some people think they are but actually put quite some pressure) doesn't need at all to add a protector. By any means. In the times when I believe Wacom got more complaints is in the gen of Intuos (Pro) 4 (not called pro, then, just marketing gimmick, If I recall well... but ofc was the pro range)  coming from the great Intuos 3 glass.... as Wacom supposedly wanted to give a bit of resistance to approach a paper feel, and a lot of people rumored it was just to give the product not such a long life (as much as I think the Paper model, is a vehicle to sell Wacom's specific Ink, in this case that other suspicion was a stretch), so to have a reason to purchase a new one. Wacom does not have there its selling point (not in the business of producing "fast food"), but indeed in deluxe quality. So, I realized soon enough that it was like always in the net : The ones complaining make more noise than a *huge* mass of happy users.  You "see" the negative ones, you don't see the positive noise as much (happens exactly so with Affinity products, BTW). Also, an stats' fact. There's as much variety as stars in the sky. So, yep, they were completely honest , those users, when telling what happened to them. As I saw videos, and read many complaints... Statistics say no matter what should be an average care for a device, you will find always extreme points and a a lot of shades of grey in between those extremes. So, there are people that draw and paint over a wacom like when they scratch a pencil (or carve stone) breaking the tip even over wood or paper.... Those will have no freaking tablet sturdy enough, on earth.

Now, that said, the surface of a wacom tablet is not any more like the beautiful glass one in the Intuos 3 gen, which was a really good and durable set of devices. Those were really solid.

You need to use a soft tip (you can easily replace the tip it comes with. It is really EASIER than it looks like). As the default one, I notice in the second day that was MUCH more likely to produce scratches (is too hard!! ) than the softer one. It actually also produces a response to touch that I quite prefer (like a brush/felt pen, or at least a 5% of that feel). is not the felt one, I believe there's one like a felt. I just use one that is quite plastic, but quite smoother than the hard plastic that comes installed in the pen as default.

If you just make the SOFT tip slide over the tablet, -no need to become either paranoid about it, BTW-  well, then... doing so I have not scratched this much softer-surface Intuos 4 XL, not a single visible scratch in 11 years. There are microscopic scratches, surely, you can see them if put your head at table level and see with a light source in certain angle.  They do not matter at all. They do start to matter if you make a DEEP scratch where the pen does bump when passing over. They could also matter if, not being any of that nature, you usually press enough to have make like a central area in the tablet more "rough", like "textured", due to bazillions of micro scratches of  certain importance. Still would be functional, but not as pleasant. Unlike with a deep scratch/crack, the tablet with those zones will last functionally yet many years. Now, I've seen those. And I know how crappily a user puts pressure on a tablet by seeing his/her tablet, at a glance. A light sketcher wont ever produce any of those damages on the surface. My 11 years is with most days full day painting (and often large part of the night) ! and is almost 100% as new.

Do not even worry if you are a light sketcher, I mean, after putting the soft nib. You would RATHER prefer to replace a nib than wreck the tablet.  A new pen is not that expensive, or a new set of nibs. And I'm YET using my second nib of the 8!  :D 

Seriously, don't overthink it, just put that soft nib (no need for a tablet protector, IMO, and putting that can bring other probs...Besides, not easy to put WELL, there are risks) and don't press too hard. It'll become your automatic habit, you'll just draw and paint lightly and wont need to worry about it. After all, the usual pressure levels are really sensitive, that is, with light pressure you already get too much response (with the most extreme values that are yet useful for all  uses), so, getting subtle is also good for control reasons.

IMO, focus on getting control of the device, rather than not using it fully for fear to scratch it. It is WAY worse if you learn to use it even a single bit less due to fears, than actually scratching it (which wont happen if you aren't heavy handed) . Make a A LOT of exercises just drawing spirals, fast circles, parallels, long curves. Not worrying a single bit as you wont get them even slightly good at the beginning. But all those cr4ppy exercises will train the hand-screen coordination way faster than full pieces over years. A good thing is to do those exercises (I don't have a good link for that now)  like 15 -20 mins a day , then switch to making an actual project. After all, is all about working with it. For me is now like a glove, it just fits and works perfectly.

Sorry if you are an experienced tablet user or knew all this. One never knows...

Oh! Also, do NOT have any issue in setting the Photo, Krita, Photoshop, Corel Painter, Clip Studio Paint, or whatever your software is (and having the feature, all these have it)  with stabilizer ON. Do so. It makes getting the control of the lines A TON more enjoyable. U'll get there (being able to draw steady lines without stabilizers) anyway, but a fantastic method is to start with the level of line stabilizer that you'll need for functional and good quality lines for your projects work, don't be shy if need a high value, then go diminishing as you notice you go gaining control (and pushing a bit everyday, as if you get comfy in a stabilizer level, you don't improve in that)  over the lines. At some point you are able to fully disable the stabilizer (I wouldn't do so for zoomed-out in photo, tho). If you would never get comfortable enough to put the stabilizer off, that's 100% fine, too (the important part is that making art).  In the first place, it wasn't/isn't your fault. Because digital tablets , no matter if screen based or classic  -they both use a very limited magnetic grid-  do NOT have the level of accuracy your hand has (yeah, not even the cintiqs!!!). They add several factors that are what people notice, while being quite more accurate with a charcoal, pencil, or oil brush over canvas. So, nothing of this (line stabilizers) is "cheating", is just compensating for hardware having not reached yet the level of accuracy we humans have, as of yet. You are only approaching a bit to the control you would have with traditional media. If you go like I did, diminishing the stabilizer value, it means that simply your brain, and hand-screen (with classic tablets, as is a non issue in display-tablets, but this way you train for any situation, and become MUCH better once you handle a display-tablet, if ever do so) coordination is getting more used to it, not that you are becoming a better artist, just used to a new machine and its shortcomings.

Answering more specifically, nope, scratches, by a light hand sketcher, not easy/probable to be generated.

Easy to remove, a deep scratch : Not that I know. There might be a way, but I don't know any. And applying some product to it, or polishing the surface I'm afraid can lead to a quite, quite worse situation. I had to put on the shelf my lovely Intuos 1 A4, which had traveled with me through several game companies, just 'cause a total idiot happened to get drunk or sth in a company party, and sadly I wasn't there at the moment....  The guy (surely with help) really did sth nasty to produce those scratches. I still have it as a museum piece, and... well, you CAN use it, but the pencil will jump over those deep scratches, is not functional anymore. 

I have worked at many companies, be it games or software/agencies, and have used bestbuy tablets,  genius tablets,  Kurta, Summagraphics, Wacom volito, Wacom graphire, Wacom Bamboo, Intuos of several flavors. Never produced scratches. So, I might be saying that for certain type of user, scratches are NEVER an issue. They simply wont be created with really proper handling. It does not get scratched by a bad glance or something, lol.

Now, if you have kids or cats... yeah, totally different scenario.... is like having mates at a company that can't behave.... Just that you can't blame the former ones, and can't either have real control over the latter. So, better have the tablet ALWAYS out of reach of beasts of any size ..... :D 

Many thanks. plenty of good points to bear in mind. 

I am putting 2-3 hours daily, currently mainly going though various Affinity Designer and Photo courses.

Loving it as I get used to it. 

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On 8/29/2019 at 12:38 AM, SrPx said:

The Deco 03 -> because a lot of reviewers talk wonders about it, as well as several well known users here, and some friends of mine (also pros in illustration and/or comic) unrelated to this forum. 80 dollars.(now. Normally is 100)

Well, I finally caved in last night. I had bought a small Wacom tablet a few years ago, but I used it very infrequently once the novelty wore off and I’ve been promising myself a bigger tablet for quite a while now. I decided that at the sale price (not just 20% but 40% off) the XP-Pen Deco03 was too good an offer to pass up.

As mentioned earlier in the thread, the sale is on until September 15 (i.e. this Sunday).

Alfred spacer.png
Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher for Windows 1.10 • Windows 10 Home/Pro
Affinity Photo for iPad 1.10 • Designer for iPad 1.10 • iPadOS 15.6.1 (iPad Air 2)

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On 9/13/2019 at 7:14 PM, Alfred said:

Well, I finally caved in last night. I had bought a small Wacom tablet a few years ago, but I used it very infrequently once the novelty wore off and I’ve been promising myself a bigger tablet for quite a while now. I decided that at the sale price (not just 20% but 40% off) the XP-Pen Deco03 was too good an offer to pass up.

As mentioned earlier in the thread, the sale is on until September 15 (i.e. this Sunday).

And it arrived today! I’m looking forward to putting it through its paces quite soon.

Thanks to @firstdefence for alerting me to the attractive features (not to mention the very existence) of this lovely piece of kit. B|

Alfred spacer.png
Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher for Windows 1.10 • Windows 10 Home/Pro
Affinity Photo for iPad 1.10 • Designer for iPad 1.10 • iPadOS 15.6.1 (iPad Air 2)

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