v1.7.1 - Bug - Missing Opacity number on Text Frame and Tables Fill

[nwhit]

No way to see what the opacity setting is nor to manually set a %. The field is missing in both the Text Frame and Tables Fill dialogues.

When using swatches in these dialogues, there isn't even an opacity slider, so not sure what's going on with that.

[thomaso]

Workaround: You can see the opacity value in both Color and Swatches Panel, synchronously with your slider move in another panel.

[nwhit]

Sorry, no. It does not synchro with the Color panel when adjusting fills from the Text Frame or Tables Fill panels. The Colors panel stays set on it's past color when the fill is changed on the Text Frame fill.

High Sierra

[nwhit]

Curiously, when playing with these sliders and panels, if you have a text frame and add a fill color to the frame from the Text Frame panel, then adjust the opacity from the Color or Swatches main panels, it affects the text color, not the frame background color. Something is messed up I think.

Also in the Text Frame panel, when you access the swatches for the text frame background, there is no opacity slider at all. Same with the Table frame background color.

[thomaso]

21 minutes ago, nwhit said:

Sorry, no. It does not synchro with the Color panel when adjusting fills from the Text Frame or Tables Fill panels.

Oh, sorry, You are right. (I had just tried with text color). Text frame and table fill and stroke colors don't even appear in the color and swatches panels.

 

19 minutes ago, nwhit said:

Also in the Text Frame panel, when you access the swatches for the text frame background, there is no opacity slider at all.

You can select a swatch first and then go to the "Color" tab in the same panel to choose a tint or opacity for that swatch.

[nwhit]

1 hour ago, thomaso said:

You can select a swatch first and then go to the "Color" tab in the same panel to choose a tint or opacity for that swatch.

But not to change the fill color of either a text frame or table. The Color panel/panel/tab does not affect those fills, and the Text Frame Fill Swatches tab does not have either an opacity slider or value. Definitely a bug. Fought it all day today on a client project.

While you can select a swatch, then switch to the Color tab and change opacity of that swatch, you still don't have a percentage or numeric readout, so there is no way to set the opacity much less duplicate other frames, etc. And there surely should be a slider and numeric value on the Swatches tab.

[thomaso]

4 hours ago, nwhit said:

the Text Frame Fill Swatches tab does not have either an opacity slider or value. Definitely a bug. Fought it all day today on a client project.

While you can select a swatch, then switch to the Color tab and change opacity of that swatch, you still don't have a percentage or numeric readout,

Yes, no excuse, that is a nasty issue, indeed. – However, until it will be fixed there is a strange 3-step process to select a swatch + set opacity + get its value:

1. Select the swatch:

2. Switch to color tab and set the opacity:

3. Switch to gradient tab, click the right color spot and read the opacity value:

But unfortunately the gradient tab sometimes doesn't show the set opacity. Then it might help to unselect + reselect the text frame and go again to the gradient tab.

 

Furthermore I run into wrong values on this way several times:
After I had set opacity and left + reopend the panel, then both the color and opacity slider were shown at its most right position whereas the visual color obviously had less than these 100%. In this screenshot the yellow was lightend in a step before with the opacity slider, though it looks as if the color slider would be wrong, here actually the opacity is displayed wrong:

To reconstruct that bug one might need to play around a while and switch colors, opacity or object selection. It seems when two objects were selected for these settings than this issue occured more often to me.

 

[Jon P]

This is the way our flyouts have always been designed, compared to the studio panels. I do agree this could be alot better to use and have logged an issue relating to it

[nwhit]

3 hours ago, Jon P said:

This is the way our flyouts have always been designed, compared to the studio panels. I do agree this could be alot better to use and have logged an issue relating to it

I guess I never tested that in the betas, but now that we're using it in production, how in the world do we set consistent opacity on color fills for tables and text frames? I have yet to find any alternative where we can enter the opacity % in order to get exact opacity settings for these elements within a pub. That seems to be a very fundamental need. 

[thomaso]

4 hours ago, nwhit said:

how in the world do we set consistent opacity on color fills for tables and text frames? I have yet to find any alternative where we can enter the opacity %

Until it gets fixed I would not use those frame fills but rather separate shapes as color background. These allow to set opacity in the color, the swatches and the layers panels. – Or, if it's a must to colorize the text frame: assign a gradient with two identical colors and opacities.

[nwhit]

32 minutes ago, thomaso said:

Until it gets fixed I would not use those frame fills but rather separate shapes as color background. These allow to set opacity in the color, the swatches and the layers panels. – Or, if it's a must to colorize the text frame: assign a gradient with two identical colors and opacities.

For a lot of our work, need to have (and routinely use) "screened" fills for text frames and tables. I just tried using a gradient fill with both ends the same color/opacity, and while it can work, it is very clumsy. Hopefully they can fix this in 1.7.2. But do appreciate the workaround for right now since we do have work to produce. And I am starting to prefer APub over ID.

[thomaso]

I don't understand "screened". Whatever, if you need it often then you possibly might save as styles or assets.

[nwhit]

In original pre-electronic graphic arts, the English term was called "screening" to accomplish an opacity, or in some cases a tint, since it involved the use of actual screens.

The common use of screened/variable opacity backgrounds for text blocks and tables generally involves matching the client's branding package, so has traditionally been done on the fly based on needs of whatever publication/advert/etc. being produced. 

In the initial days of DTP, we would use a separate graphic element with the correct tint/screen/opacity, arrange it under the text block or table, then often group them so they moved together. 

With Publisher having a separate Text Frame and Table Frame color capability, including opacity, it saves a lot of time. However, based on the particular publication, the amount of opacity being used for the elements' backgrounds in that document can vary significantly based on a number of factors. Not really practical to have pre-done "styles" since they vary so much from client to client and project to project. That said, the amount of opacity for all the elements within a specific publication most often have to be the exact same percentage of opacity on the various backgrounds in order to match (continuity), but that amount varies considerably from publication to publication. On occasion it can even vary depending on the page it's on or the content under the screened background.

Hope that makes sense.

[Old Bruce]

15 hours ago, thomaso said:

I don't understand "screened". Whatever, if you need it often then you possibly might save as styles or assets.

A dot screen. Various sizes of dots to give greyscale 10%, 20% etc The bigger the dots the higher the % of black. They came in different dpi as well. Obviously you could use them on a colour plate as well.

[nwhit]

Aha! Solved! Or sort of! Playing around with the Fill tool (left tool palette), I can see that the Text Frame and Table Frame fill can be adjusted and in many ways!  

1) Create a Text Frame or Table.

2) With the Frame still selected, select the Fill tool in the left tool palette, making sure on the top Contextual toolbar that Frame is selected and not Text. This activates the color within the main Swatches/Color panel (not the Text Frame or Table Frame panes) where you can select the color or swatch, then change Opacity, Tint, etc. Can at that point even set it to a gradient via the top Contextual Tool Bar (active when the Fill tool is selected), then change directions of the gradient, add points, etc. plus opacity settings.

NOTE: Also just discovered that you can't pick or change the Fill color within the top contextual tool bar with the Fill tool selected. You MUST use the main Swatches/Color panel to select and modify the color (gradient, opacity, tint, etc.).

A bit different than what you'd think (instead of using the Frame panel Fill) to get it done but workable. And in reading old threads on gradients, Affinity prefers the more robust controls offered with the use of the Fill tool (APub, ADes) and Gradient tool (APh) as opposed to performing some of these things in the main color/Frame panes. No problem! At least figured a way to do this routinely and with little pain.

RECOMMENDATION: I would recommend that the methods to change Text Frame and Table Frame fills were better covered in a Text and Tables tutorial since it is a little obtuse/non-intuitive on how to get there. I think I have watched those videos and can't remember this method being shown, although I may be wrong. Works great once you figure it out but a bit tough to get there when you assume you should be able to change these things within the Text and Table Frame panes' Fill settings. 

[thomaso]

Ah. Do you get the opacity value? Can you show a screenshot?

To me the color options here is the same as in text frame panel. – No opacity value/number given:

[nwhit]

Once you create or select a Text or Table Frame, click on the Fill tool in the left side Tool Palette. Check the top Contextual Tool Bar to be sure it is set to either Text or Frame, then you can pick your Fill type and use the normal Color or Swatches panel to select colors, opacity, etc. DO NOT USE the Fill button within the Text Frame panel or within the top contextual tool bar!

[nwhit]

Another view when you have one end of the gradient selected with the Fill tool.

 

[nwhit]

This is what you see when you have Solid selected in the top Contextual Tool Bar with the Fill tool selected. Can select the color from any interface desired (within the main Swatches/Color panes, but not the Frames Fill or top contextual Fill icon), but change the Opacity in the Swatches pane of the main color pane, not the Text Frame fill.

 

[nwhit]

Also just added note to above instructions that you can't use the top Contextual tool bar Fill button. MUST use the main Swatches/Color panel in order to have access to modifiers. 

[nwhit]

Just used this to fix a tech sheet where I needed a 35% opacity white fill for the text frame that overlays a background image. Eazzy-Peezy now that I know how to do it! 

 

[thomaso]

1 hour ago, nwhit said:

Also just added note to above instructions that you can't use the top Contextual tool bar Fill button. MUST use the main Swatches/Color panel in order to have access to modifiers. 

Ah, that's the point! Very good, thank you!
I still forget too often about the various capabilities of fill tool (have it in mind as gradient tool only).

Looking at your samples I get one more place in mind to define a fill behind text: in Paragraph Panel > Decoration:
You can include negative inset, save individual variations in a pulldown menu, and assign them to text styles.