Glyphs and Text Styles

[Petar Petrenko]

Hi,

thanks A-Team. You did a really fantastic job with text styles. What is it about?

When reapplying paragraph styles, the changed glyphs are not reverted back. It means when I replace Bulgarian/Russian italic characters (cyrilic) with Macedonian ones, they stay in place even when the style is reapplayed, which is not a case in InDesign.

Now, I would like to automatically replace the glyphs via Find/Change to save me time for manually changing thousands of them in a long documents. When I want to Copy/Paste the alternate glyph in "Change" box (Macedonian one), Publisher crashes immediatelly.

 

EDITED: I forgot to "translate" the glyphs in English. They are: g, d, p, t -> respectivelly.

[walt.farrell]

5 hours ago, Petar Petrenko said:

When reapplying paragraph styles, the changed glyphs are not reverted back. It means when I replace Bulgarian/Russian italic characters (cyrilic) with Macedonian ones, they stay in place even when the style is reapplayed, which is not a case in InDesign.

I'm not sure I understand what you're doing Petar. What is changing in the Paragraph Style that should cause the glyphs to change? A change of Typography Script or Typography Language? Something else? Perhaps some screenshots of the original Paragraph Style definition and the new one would help?

[R C-R]

8 hours ago, Petar Petrenko said:

Publisher crashes immediatelly.

Since Publisher is still in beta you probably should be posting this to the appropriate Publisher beta forum.

[Petar Petrenko]

6 hours ago, walt.farrell said:

I'm not sure I understand what you're doing Petar. What is changing in the Paragraph Style that should cause the glyphs to change? A change of Typography Script or Typography Language? Something else? Perhaps some screenshots of the original Paragraph Style definition and the new one would help?

Hi Walt,

paragraph definition is not important. The important one is this:

when I change Russian glyphs into Macedonian one and press CTRL + click on paragraph style with + sign next to it in InDesign, Macedonian glyphs turn into Russian again. It is not the case in Publisher and I'm very thankful about it.

[walt.farrell]

4 hours ago, Petar Petrenko said:

when I change Russian glyphs into Macedonian one

Thanks, Petar, but my confusion is in the above: how are you doing that, and why would you expect that changing the Paragraph Style would have an effect?

[Petar Petrenko]

2 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

Thanks, Petar, but my confusion is in the above: how are you doing that, and why would you expect that changing the Paragraph Style would have an effect?

I select the Russian glyph in the text and replace with the Macedonian one from Glyphs palette. One-by-one.

In InDesign, if you CTRL + click on (now changed paragraph style which ahs a plus sign next to it) to adjust the paragraph -- Macedonian glyphs are gone. They are replaced with Russian again. I thought it was the same with Publisher but it is not the case. It keeps the Macedonian ones (QXP keeps them, too). Great!!!

[walt.farrell]

Thanks. As far as I can see, a glyph is just a normal character, and has no effect on styling. Inserting a Hebrew glyph into a paragraph with Body style and US English text leaves the paragraph style set to Body, not Body+.

If you were to change the language setting for a word, or the typography script for a word or letter/glyph using the Character panel that would change it to Body+ (or <your style>+), though.

[Sean P]

Hi Petar,

Unfortunately I'm still very confused as to what exact steps you are going through in both InDesign and Publisher. Would you be able record a video showing exactly what you've described in your original post, and then what InDesign does. If you could also attach both indd and afpub files to support that would help us a lot.

Unfortunately I'm unfamiliar with Bulgarian, Macedonian and Cyrillic languages as a whole so it is a bit of a hurdle!

[Petar Petrenko]

Hi Sean,

I am not at my computer now, but shortly I would like to be able to Find/Change any glyph with some other. Unfortunately, it is not 100% possible in any Affinity apps. In InDesign there is a “Glyphs” tab in Find/change dialog box so it is very easy to replace any glyph you want. 

[walt.farrell]

2 hours ago, Petar Petrenko said:

. Unfortunately, it is not 100% possible in any Affinity apps

It is possible if you have an occurrence of each in the document, isn't it? At that point you can copy one and paste into the Find string, and then do the same for the other into the Replace string.

[Petar Petrenko]

No, it is not. 

[Petar Petrenko]

Hi,

here it is what I need in Publisher. BTW, I selected "Bold italic" in Replace just for chages to be noticed easily.

I can't Copy/Paste characters into "Replace With" in Publisher (crashes immediately), which are selected into "Change" dialog box in InDesign.

[Sean P]

Essentially you're just saying you want a Glyph Selector in the Find/Replace dialog then, and that this has nothing to do with Text Styles?

Also would you be able to attach a few crash reports from the crashes you get when pasting the Glyph into Find/Replace please? I was unable to reproduce it.

[Petar Petrenko]

I will attach it after 8 PM. Can you tell me where I can find it?

[Sean P]

No worries - they can be found in the following location. You'll have to check the date modified dates to get the correct ones if you can remember roughly the times it crashed.

%AppData%/Affinity/Publisher/1.0 (Beta)/CrashReports/reports/

[Petar Petrenko]

Hi Sean,

Here is another problem with glyphs:

1. open the file in attachment;
2. select the 2nd and 3rd row;
3. change "italic" into "regular".

Now, all three rows should be the same. But, they are not. The 3rd row contains alternates. They also should look like the text in the first row when changed to "regular" (at least that happens in InDesign).

test.afpub

[Petar Petrenko]

Hi,

here are all crash reports I found:

f146dfb1-6f44-470f-82bb-ec0aeb1ea34c.dmpb6112deb-8328-4e68-9e23-f817700fe573.dmp3149f9d9-6578-4fbf-93aa-9d06ab0f89c9.dmp592d01cc-8b93-41d6-8faa-1222b6f42827.dmp14d20834-9c92-4fcf-89d1-d6f8d612f7d6.dmp2cbce3ef-4b3a-4491-9de1-6681fbb24a1a.dmp

[Sean P]

16 hours ago, Petar Petrenko said:

Hi Sean,

Here is another problem with glyphs:

1. open the file in attachment;
2. select the 2nd and 3rd row;
3. change "italic" into "regular".

Now, all three rows should be the same. But, they are not. The 3rd row contains alternates. They also should look like the text in the first row when changed to "regular" (at least that happens in InDesign).

test.afpub

How did you type those characters in the 3rd row? If possible could you show me using simple steps (if I change my keyboard language in Windows to Macedonian) that someone who doesn't know the language can follow? Those characters seem very strange - I cannot paste them into anything!

Thanks!

EDIT: I've taken the second row and applied 'Alternate 1' using the Typography panel and switching Italics off works as expected. So there seems to be something about the way you've added those characters that it doesn't like.

[Sean P]

14 hours ago, Petar Petrenko said:

Hi,

here are all crash reports I found:

f146dfb1-6f44-470f-82bb-ec0aeb1ea34c.dmpb6112deb-8328-4e68-9e23-f817700fe573.dmp3149f9d9-6578-4fbf-93aa-9d06ab0f89c9.dmp592d01cc-8b93-41d6-8faa-1222b6f42827.dmp14d20834-9c92-4fcf-89d1-d6f8d612f7d6.dmp2cbce3ef-4b3a-4491-9de1-6681fbb24a1a.dmp

All of these crash reports are from build 305 - could you update to 312 and see if the crash is reproducible still?

If so could you do a screen recording showing the steps you are creating (with an on screen keyboard visible). Would it be possible for you to use something like TinyTake to do the screen recording (showing the entire screen with on screen keyboard visible), as the last video was VERY hard to make out anything on the actual screen.

[Petar Petrenko]

8 minutes ago, Sean P said:

How did you type those characters in the 3rd row?

1. First you have to install and select MK (Macedonian) keyboard.
2. The letters in all three raws are the same and they are: gdpt gdpt gdpt gdpt gdpt gdpt.
3. Then you select the 2nd and 3rd raw and set them as "italic".
4. In "Glyphs palette" you must have selected "Unicode plus Alternates".
5. I select one glyph from the 3rd raw and replace it with the alternate glyph from "Glyph palette".

(There is an example in the attachment.)

It would be nice if you add an option glyphs in "Glyph palette" to scroll up to the selected glyph in the text and highlight it.

[Petar Petrenko]

23 minutes ago, Sean P said:

All of these crash reports are from build 305 - could you update to 312 and see if the crash is reproducible still?

No, I can't reproduce them in 312. It seems you worked on it.

[Sean P]

3 minutes ago, Petar Petrenko said:

1. First you have to install and select MK (Macedonian) keyboard.
2. The letters in all three raws are the same and they are: gdpt gdpt gdpt gdpt gdpt gdpt.
3. Then you select the 2nd and 3rd raw and set them as "italic".
4. In "Glyphs palette" you must have selected "Unicode plus Alternates".
5. I select one glyph from the 3rd raw and replace it with the alternate glyph from "Glyph palette".

(There is an example in the attachment.)

It would be nice if you add an option glyphs in "Glyph palette" to scroll up to the selected glyph in the text and highlight it.

What it looks like you are doing there is just adding a glyph, and not using Minion Pro's built in Alternates to switch the characters when needed. This means that when you switch font to regular, it cannot display the characters as they don't exist. 

Why not just use the Alternate 1 option in the Typography panel to do this? You can set a Character Style up to switch these OpenType features on or off when needed. See attached file - I've set the characters to use Alternate 1 in the Typography Panel and they function as you would expect when you switch from Italic to Regular.

testredone.afpub

[Petar Petrenko]

53 minutes ago, Sean P said:

Why not just use the Alternate 1 option in the Typography panel to do this?

Why not? That is a good question.

I didn't have this option in InDesign and Quark for a long time and I used to do it that (hard) way. From now on I will use typography styles for sure, but glyph selector is still a necessery feature for replacing another glyphs.

[Petar Petrenko]

I can't believe Quark doesn't have this option among all these...

In InDesign is even worse. This option is not present, too and you have to open the flyout windows each time you want to select or deselect a stylistic set.

[Petar Petrenko]

Hi Sean,

if I apply a text style "Numbering" and then use alternate set, all periods in text turn into elipses. Is it OK or not? Can it be applied on text only?