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Page Break Not Working


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Disclaimer: it is possible Affinity set this function up to work differently than any other page break function I've used, so someone correct me if I'm missing something.

Expected: you create a page with one or more columns of text, you insert the cursor where you want the page break to occur, you choose Text > Insert > Page Break, and the result is a new page that starts with the text that appeared after the insertion point.

What actually happens: you follow the above steps but get what appears to be a line break or maybe a section break instead. No new page is created and none of the text after the cursor is moved down to the new page.

 

That said there are a lot of break functionalities in this menu so possibly the intent or required setup is different. I tried creating a second page first and then doing a page break but even there the text after the insertion point did not move down to the new page. I've tried some of the other break types and the thing they all have in common is there doesn't seem to be any visual indicator for what has happened other than the text moving down a few spaces.

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It works for me as expected, although I had more than one page in my document.

Try to create a new page first and see whether the Page Break works for you.

2017 27” iMac 4.2 GHz Quad-Core Intel Core i7 • Radeon Pr 580 8GB • 64GB • Ventura 13.6.4.

iPad Pro (10.5-inch) • 256GB • Version 16.4

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Just now, Seneca said:

It works for me as expected, although I had more than one page in my document.

Try to create a new page first and see whether the Page Break works for you.

Nope. If I do this:

1. Create new doc

2. Add text box, fill with filler text

3. Create new page

4. Place cursor somewhere in the filler text then attempt page break, the text just moves one line down the original page. I've tried other things like spanning the text box down to the next page or adding a new empty text box to the next page, but the break never does what you expect. Really the only way a Page Break makes sense as a usable feature is if you don't have to set up a bunch of other stuff first to use it, IMHO. But possibly I have a preference or setting somewhere that needs to be changed. Even there though if this function depends on settings elsewhere, it's not obvious this is the case.

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OK. I think I know what's going wrong for you.

1. Create 2 pages

2. Create a text frame on each page.

3. Link the frames

4. Add text and insert a page break.

Please let me know whether this time it worked for you.

2017 27” iMac 4.2 GHz Quad-Core Intel Core i7 • Radeon Pr 580 8GB • 64GB • Ventura 13.6.4.

iPad Pro (10.5-inch) • 256GB • Version 16.4

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Yes, that worked, however if that's what's required to make page break function, then the function itself is less useful than it should be and less familiar relative to how other apps use Page Breaks.

The Page Break function should be smart enough to know that it has to create the new page and text frame, and flow the text after the cursor insertion point into the new page and frame automatically. We don't always know how many pages we're going to need or when we'll need to break up text like this. To always have to set up extra pages and frames in advance, so that we can use a Page Break, somewhat defeats the purpose of the function. At least as I've used it over the years and I suspect others.

 

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16 minutes ago, Cineman said:

Yes, that worked, however if that's what's required to make page break function, then the function itself is less useful than it should be and less familiar relative to how other apps use Page Breaks.

It may be better than you think, but it may take some getting used to. Or, it may not be working quite right. But I think I like it :)

Create 1 page, with a text frame. Type some text. Insert a page break. Type some more text.

Yes, it's all in the same text frame, which seems odd. But all you need to do is shift-click on the text-frame-link icon and you will get a new page, with a new text frame, containing the text you typed below the page break. There is actually a benefit to it working this way: You can refer to the prior text while typing the text after the page break. If it had jumped to the new page immediately and you needed to refer back you would have to leave your current frame, scroll back, and then return to the frame you were in.

But with the way it works, you don't need to navigate away from where you're typing. When you're done, you just shift-click to get a new page, and repeat if you've entered several page breaks.

-- Walt
Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases
PC:
    Desktop:  Windows 11 Pro 23H2, 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 

    Laptop:  Windows 11 Pro 23H2, 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU.
    Laptop 2: Windows 11 Pro 24H2,  16GB memory, Snapdragon(R) X Elite - X1E80100 - Qualcomm(R) Oryon(TM) 12 Core CPU 4.01 GHz, Qualcomm(R) Adreno(TM) X1-85 GPU
iPad:  iPad Pro M1, 12.9": iPadOS 17.7, Apple Pencil 2, Magic Keyboard 
Mac:  2023 M2 MacBook Air 15", 16GB memory, macOS Sonoma 14.7

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3 hours ago, walt.farrell said:

 

It may be better than you think, but it may take some getting used to. Or, it may not be working quite right. But I think I like it :)

Create 1 page, with a text frame. Type some text. Insert a page break. Type some more text.

Yes, it's all in the same text frame, which seems odd. But all you need to do is shift-click on the text-frame-link icon and you will get a new page, with a new text frame, containing the text you typed below the page break. There is actually a benefit to it working this way: You can refer to the prior text while typing the text after the page break. If it had jumped to the new page immediately and you needed to refer back you would have to leave your current frame, scroll back, and then return to the frame you were in.

But with the way it works, you don't need to navigate away from where you're typing. When you're done, you just shift-click to get a new page, and repeat if you've entered several page breaks.

Interesting approach. Can you give an example of after setting the break, where you'd need to refer back to the other text? Usually I don't know I need or set a break until I realize the last of what I want to say isn't going to fit in the space alloted and so as soon as I set the break I go to the next page I finish off the text there. Open to new workflows but trying to understand the context of when this method would be better than just having the new page immediately set up and taking cursor focus. Also I still think adding that last shift-click makes it more mouse targeting than it should be. First you have to menu surf to find the command then back to the frame and mouse-target the link icon thing.

I dunno. It's not bad the way it is per se but seems more complicated than it should be. Maybe once I understand the intent better it'll make more sense.

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2 minutes ago, Cineman said:

Can you give an example of after setting the break, where you'd need to refer back to the other text? Usually I don't know I need or set a break until I realize the last of what I want to say isn't going to fit in the space alloted and so as soon as I set the break I go to the next page I finish off the text there.

Well, if you're pasting pre-composed text in, you probably don't need to go back. But when I'm typing, especially if I'm composing as I type, it's more likely that I'll recognize the need for a page break, but still want to see what I was just typing to make sure I stay coherent and consistent :)

-- Walt
Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases
PC:
    Desktop:  Windows 11 Pro 23H2, 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 

    Laptop:  Windows 11 Pro 23H2, 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU.
    Laptop 2: Windows 11 Pro 24H2,  16GB memory, Snapdragon(R) X Elite - X1E80100 - Qualcomm(R) Oryon(TM) 12 Core CPU 4.01 GHz, Qualcomm(R) Adreno(TM) X1-85 GPU
iPad:  iPad Pro M1, 12.9": iPadOS 17.7, Apple Pencil 2, Magic Keyboard 
Mac:  2023 M2 MacBook Air 15", 16GB memory, macOS Sonoma 14.7

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OK I think I follow. I can see how that would be useful. Maybe what they can do is set this up as a preference. Default behavior = what it is now if that's what most people want, option to set it to "Immeditely set up new page and flow text into it" as the default.

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Just now, Cineman said:

OK I think I follow. I can see how that would be useful. Maybe what they can do is set this up as a preference. Default behavior = what it is now if that's what most people want, option to set it to "Immeditely set up new page and flow text into it" as the default.

Likely that would take a change to how master page text frames work. With layout applications that can have what is called a primary text frame, inserting a page break does create a new page (as long as one is typing in the primary text frame anyway). Or it would take how Ventura Publisher worked, which was either typing just on the page, using text frames, or a combination of both. Without frames, one started a document and just inserted or type the text. Using it this way was/is no different than say Word.

I rarely insert breaks as I go. I'll wait until the text is finished and what I consider a final draft of the text. Then I'll "page" the file. But then, I also don't compose text very often int he layout application, either.

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Much of the time I would not use any type of break, instead just waiting till the frame fills up, create a new page then click the connect widget and draw out a new frame on the next page based on where the images will be, etc. That's neither here nor there though. The crux is how people expect a Page Break function to behave (in the traditional sense). IOW, if I go to use it, what do I expect happens when I select that command? That's where things get a little askew with this implementation but like I said probably solvable with a preference that gives the option of changing the default behavior.

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Creating a new page and a new text frame makes sense for a word processor, but less so for a DTP app. For comparison, inserting a page break in InDesign does not add a new page. If we ever add a feature to create new frames automatically as you type, then we'll revisit creating new pages for page breaks.

At the moment if there's no next frame to move to, the page break is ignored. I think this is wrong - the following text should be pushed down into overflow instead. That's what happens with paragraph flow options. This should be fixed in the next beta.

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6 minutes ago, Dave Harris said:

At the moment if there's no next frame to move to, the page break is ignored. I think this is wrong - the following text should be pushed down into overflow instead. That's what happens with paragraph flow options. This should be fixed in the next beta.

That's a great solution. Visually, the rest of the text disappears and it should inform the user that a new page needs to be created.

2017 27” iMac 4.2 GHz Quad-Core Intel Core i7 • Radeon Pr 580 8GB • 64GB • Ventura 13.6.4.

iPad Pro (10.5-inch) • 256GB • Version 16.4

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17 minutes ago, Dave Harris said:

Creating a new page and a new text frame makes sense for a word processor, but less so for a DTP app. For comparison, inserting a page break in InDesign does not add a new page. If we ever add a feature to create new frames automatically as you type, then we'll revisit creating new pages for page breaks.

At the moment if there's no next frame to move to, the page break is ignored. I think this is wrong - the following text should be pushed down into overflow instead. That's what happens with paragraph flow options. This should be fixed in the next beta.

But with a master page "primary text frame" one will get automatic page creation. Having a master page primary text frame really is needed by release and then this, and other, issues get resolved.

Mike

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2 hours ago, MikeW said:

But with a master page "primary text frame" one will get automatic page creation.

While I agree that text frames on a master page should work differently, you can get automatic page creation from a text frame created specifically on a document page (not inherited from a master). Shift-clicking on the link triangle will create the next page, if it's not there.

-- Walt
Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases
PC:
    Desktop:  Windows 11 Pro 23H2, 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 

    Laptop:  Windows 11 Pro 23H2, 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU.
    Laptop 2: Windows 11 Pro 24H2,  16GB memory, Snapdragon(R) X Elite - X1E80100 - Qualcomm(R) Oryon(TM) 12 Core CPU 4.01 GHz, Qualcomm(R) Adreno(TM) X1-85 GPU
iPad:  iPad Pro M1, 12.9": iPadOS 17.7, Apple Pencil 2, Magic Keyboard 
Mac:  2023 M2 MacBook Air 15", 16GB memory, macOS Sonoma 14.7

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That's not really automatic if one needs to invoke something. The issue is while typing and having pages created while typing.

Nor is it automatic when when importing text...I would rather have the importing of text in the Place menu and, like in ID when there is not a primary text frame being used, shift+click imports & flows the text to as many pages as needed.

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1 hour ago, MikeW said:

That's not really automatic if one needs to invoke something. The issue is while typing and having pages created while typing.

Nor is it automatic when when importing text...I would rather have the importing of text in the Place menu and, like in ID when there is not a primary text frame being used, shift+click imports & flows the text to as many pages as needed.

I think you're right. But I don't think it is any more automatic when the text frame is inherited from a Master page, Mike. I think, with this beta, the same manual actions are needed whether one uses a Master page or not.

(I have not done much experimenting, though, because as we know that kind of text frame doesn't really work with Publisher's Master pages today.)

-- Walt
Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases
PC:
    Desktop:  Windows 11 Pro 23H2, 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 

    Laptop:  Windows 11 Pro 23H2, 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU.
    Laptop 2: Windows 11 Pro 24H2,  16GB memory, Snapdragon(R) X Elite - X1E80100 - Qualcomm(R) Oryon(TM) 12 Core CPU 4.01 GHz, Qualcomm(R) Adreno(TM) X1-85 GPU
iPad:  iPad Pro M1, 12.9": iPadOS 17.7, Apple Pencil 2, Magic Keyboard 
Mac:  2023 M2 MacBook Air 15", 16GB memory, macOS Sonoma 14.7

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7 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

I think you're right. But I don't think it is any more automatic when the text frame is inherited from a Master page, Mike. I think, with this beta, the same manual actions are needed whether one uses a Master page or not.

(I have not done much experimenting, though, because as we know that kind of text frame doesn't really work with Publisher's Master pages today.)

You're right, Walt. With APub in its current state that is.

But APub has to change the master page thing. At least for a good portion of the market it hopes to gain. 

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