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Petar Petrenko

Adjustment Layers, Live Filter Layers, Develop Persona

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Hi,

1. Is it possible to make Develop Persona to be directly available for any kind of photo formats, not only for RAW? Maybe to add all the features into Studio Palettes? Some RAW specific features could be added into Adjustment or Live Filter Layers.

2. Is it possible to make any number of Adjustment and Live Filter Layers to be opened simultaneously? This way fine tuning of photos would be much easier and faster.

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For 1, the Develop Persona is usable on any kind of file you want. Just open the file, then switch to the Develop Persona. Serif have stated that they want to provide improvements in the Develop Persona, such as a non-destructive form, which might provide some of the other items you've asked for.

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Yes, I know that Develop Persona is usable on any kind of files. But, why to treat RAW files as something special? They need adjustmenets just as any kind of files. The only difference is that they must be saved in some other format. Anything else is the same as for other type of photos.

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3 hours ago, Petar Petrenko said:

But, why to treat RAW files as something special?

Not really a case of treating them as special.  With RAW files, it's just data from the camera, it needs to be 'developed' which is what the develop persona does.  It takes all of the data and creates an image, if my memory is correct i believe this process is called demosaicing  and for more information i'd suggest checking out this article.  With a JPG, the image has already been created and processed by the camera to an actual image, which is why there isn't any need for the develop process.

Hope that helps but i'd suggest giving the article i linked to a read as it explains it a lot better than i have :) 

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4 minutes ago, Petar Petrenko said:

Term "developing" can be used for any kind of photo, not just for RAW. When you work on a photo you are actually developing it.

That is true and also why we have the Develop Persona available to non RAW images... I really don't see the problem here.  RAW files, have to be developed, this is not something unique to Affinity.  Its why Photoshop uses Adobe Camera RAW, they need to read the data from the camera into an actual image.  With a JPG or any other non RAW image, that job has been done.  If you want to go into the Develop Persona and tweak it further you can.  That stage isn't needed when you 1st open a JPG but is when you open a RAW as until it's been developed there isn't really an 'image' to work with, just data file from the camera.

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5 minutes ago, stokerg said:

That is true and also why we have the Develop Persona available to non RAW images... I really don't see the problem here.  RAW files, have to be developed, this is not something unique to Affinity.  Its why Photoshop uses Adobe Camera RAW, they need to read the data from the camera into an actual image.  With a JPG or any other non RAW image, that job has been done.  If you want to go into the Develop Persona and tweak it further you can.  That stage isn't needed when you 1st open a JPG but is when you open a RAW as until it's been developed there isn't really an 'image' to work with, just data file from the camera.

What so specific featrures Develop Persona has that needs to be different/separated from all standard photo adjustments and live filters? Couldn't they be included in adjustment and live filters menus and be common for all files?

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10 minutes ago, Petar Petrenko said:

Couldn't they be included in adjustment and live filters menus and be common for all files?

Some of the options are, Shadows and Highlights for example but when working with a non RAW file, eg when you've left Develop persona/working with a JPG,  they do work differently as they are no longer working with the RAW data at that stage.  The main problem with RAW is, until it's been developed, there isn't an actual image file to work with.  So what would we open on screen?  We have to read the data from the camera and present an image on screen, as until the data has been read, there isn't a image file to work with. 

Personally, i do very little work in the Develop persona and stick to the main the photo persona for my workflow but thats just me.  I'm sure someone could argue the benefits of only shooting JPG files on a DSLR, personally i shoot RAW and JPG and if i need to quickly share a shot on Instagram or Facebook, normally the JPG straight from the camera will do with very little correction.   

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12 minutes ago, stokerg said:

Some of the options are, Shadows and Highlights for example but when working with a non RAW file, eg when you've left Develop persona/working with a JPG,  they do work differently as they are no longer working with the RAW data at that stage.  The main problem with RAW is, until it's been developed, there isn't an actual image file to work with.  So what would we open on screen?  We have to read the data from the camera and present an image on screen, as until the data has been read, there isn't a image file to work with. 

Personally, i do very little work in the Develop persona and stick to the main the photo persona for my workflow but thats just me.  I'm sure someone could argue the benefits of only shooting JPG files on a DSLR, personally i shoot RAW and JPG and if i need to quickly share a shot on Instagram or Facebook, normally the JPG straight from the camera will do with very little correction.   

You open pixels on screen. Type of the picture doesn't matter. You can make temporary file from RAW just for editing.

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RAW format is "special" only for saving. You don't like to destroy your original data so the software must offer you another format to choose from for saving. Anything else is the same as the other photo formats.

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9 minutes ago, Petar Petrenko said:

You can make temporary file from RAW just for editing

Which is actually what other apps do, they open the embedded JPG file and present that to the screen.  Affinity does it differently because the Devs have coded it to work this way, eg if we have the raw data from the camera, why not use that?  Yes it means an extra step, which is present in every other photo editing app but you can always just shoot JPG and hope the camera you are using processes the image correctly, understanding there will only be so much you can do in post.

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1 minute ago, Petar Petrenko said:

RAW format is "special" only for saving

I don't think you are understanding the difference between RAW and JPG/other formats.  Until the RAW file has been developed, there isn't an image to work with.  It's just a data file from the camera.  

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You have the RAW file on your HD as you have the other bitmap files. So, what is the big deal here? Just when you finished editing and press "Save..." the app MUST offer you another file format to save it.

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2 minutes ago, Petar Petrenko said:

You have the RAW file on your HD as you have the other bitmap files

But thats the thing, it's not the same as any other bitmap file.  The thumbnail preview you see in Finder (on Mac) or Explorer (Windows) is the embedded JPG file a lot of the time.  Other times you need a plugin from the camera maker to show that preview.  When you open that RAW file (which isn't a bitmap file at all, its data from the camera) we have to draw the image from that data.  Other apps don't bother and just load a JPG preview which is embedded in the RAW file, but still present you with their version of the Develop Persona.  Again this is standard to how RAW files work.  Not anything that will be changing within the app

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You don't take RAW pictures with your compter so that "the light" (the picture) is somewhere in you computer buffer or in another space. The RAW format is just the original (the best) format you can get from your camera. And does not need some special "king like" treatment.

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4 minutes ago, stokerg said:

But thats the thing, it's not the same as any other bitmap file.  The thumbnail preview you see in Finder (on Mac) or Explorer (Windows) is the embedded JPG file a lot of the time.  Other times you need a plugin from the camera maker to show that preview.  When you open that RAW file (which isn't a bitmap file at all, its data from the camera) we have to draw the image from that data.  Other apps don't bother and just load a JPG preview which is embedded in the RAW file, but still present you with their version of the Develop Persona.  Again this is standard to how RAW files work.  Not anything that will be changing within the app

You use the driver/plugin to open the RAW file and you work on it with the standard tools the Photo already has. Why should "Exposure" be, for example, different for RAW files from the "Exposure" for the other files.

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PS It would be great if it will be possible to use Develop Persona on a pixel / raster layer as an additional non-destructive live filter :)

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