TIFF vs PNG

[leoskats]

Hello Guys,

Hope your are good! Today I'm making this thread in order to understand the difference between TIFF and PNG. Theoretically, I know the characteristics of each file format. So I edit my RAW photos with Affinity Photo, which is really good. When the time comes to the export, I just want to preserve the highest possible quality for my post-publishing in web. I know about the PNG - 24 bit that its really cool format and it has lossless compression. My problem with this format is that it can't support higher color depth. Thus I choose to export my images in TIFF 16 bit in RGB color space. Also, the TIFF has a strange compression called LZW that it doesn't lose information of the image and the quality stays crystal clear, but it reduces the image's file. Affinity doesn't support no compression selection in TIFF file. When it will come to the Affinity one option to choose uncompressed the TIFF files? Is it safe or wise to safe in such a method? When I read compression I feel unsafe for my image's future and I cannot understand how it is applied in one lossless image's format. Should I use another method in order to have the best possible result or is it no problem for my image this TIFF's compression procedure?  For example PNG-24 uses compression like ZTW? How minimise the image's memory?  
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PS: I use TIFF 16 bit also for my web. Nowadays safari can read TIFF files and upload them perfectly. Moreover, I upload my TIFFs in Canon irista cloud, whereas i can found them from my phone and post them later in other social networks: the quality is really good.
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Thanks in advance!

[lepr]

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[leoskats]

Thank you for your reply! What has the best quality tho? 

[lepr]

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[leoskats]

I see. In what the both TIFFS the compressed and the uncompressed differ? In the quality or what? And a final question is there any way to save uncompressed 16 bit TIFFs :) Thanks 

[walt.farrell]

14 hours ago, leoskats said:

I see. In what the both TIFFS the compressed and the uncompressed differ? In the quality or what? And a final question is there any way to save uncompressed 16 bit TIFFs Thanks 

As TIFF compression is lossless, they should normally differ only in the file size, where the compressed form should usually require fewer bytes to store it.

The Affinity apps do not currently provide a way to save TIFF files without compression 

[leoskats]

On 5/31/2018 at 6:01 PM, walt.farrell said:

As TIFF compression is lossless, they should normally differ only in the file size, where the compressed form should usually require fewer bytes to store it.

The Affinity apps do not currently provide a way to save TIFF files without compression 

Yes I just want only to store and edit my images in crystal quality. I hope not to degrade my photo quality the LZW compression. I have read in many forums that lossless compression affects only the file size, but I'm not sure, because I'm amateur with photography.

One more question: when will affinity bring the "no compression" selection for TIFF files? Is it possible to know or to request it?  I ask because when you export 16 bit TIFF with LZW compression, then the file size is very very big!

Thank you very much for your help!

[Alfred]

5 minutes ago, leoskats said:

I have read in many forums that lossless compression affects only the file size, but I'm not sure

What’s to be unsure about? ‘Lossless’ means ‘without loss of quality’. The trade-off is that the file needs to be compressed when saved and then uncompressed again when loaded into RAM, but the amount of time required for that is trivial on a modern computer.

[leoskats]

4 minutes ago, αℓƒяє∂ said:

What’s to be unsure about? ‘Lossless’ means ‘without loss of quality’. The trade-off is that the file needs to be compressed when saved and then uncompressed again when loaded into RAM, but the amount of time required for that is trivial on a modern computer.

Hello! Can you explain me please because I’m amateur, what do you mean by “the file needs to be compressed when saved and then uncompressed again when loaded into RAM”. Basically I cannot understand how can I uncompress a compressed image, like my case with TIFFS. 

Ps: I have Mac OS Sierra!

[Alfred]

1 minute ago, leoskats said:

Basically I cannot understand how can I uncompress a compressed image, like my case with TIFFS.

My apologies: I should have said “the computer needs to compress/uncompress the image”. I was just trying to make the point that there is a (small) time factor involved; I didn’t mean to imply that you need to do anything special.

[leoskats]

36 minutes ago, αℓƒяє∂ said:

My apologies: I should have said “the computer needs to compress/uncompress the image”. I was just trying to make the point that there is a (small) time factor involved; I didn’t mean to imply that you need to do anything special.

When I have an edited photo, like the TIFF, can I uncompress it to get the original back? How you do such thing in the PC?

[Alfred]

11 minutes ago, leoskats said:

When I have an edited photo, like the TIFF, can I uncompress it to get the original back? How you do such thing in the PC?

When you have an image which is stored in a compressed file format, your image editor performs the necessary uncompression for you when it loads the image, so you “get the original back” automatically. When you export the edited image (to the same file format or a different one) any compression that you ask for is again performed by the image editor, relieving you of the burden of having to worry about the details.

[leoskats]

46 minutes ago, αℓƒяє∂ said:

When you have an image which is stored in a compressed file format, your image editor performs the necessary uncompression for you when it loads the image, so you “get the original back” automatically. When you export the edited image (to the same file format or a different one) any compression that you ask for is again performed by the image editor, relieving you of the burden of having to worry about the details.

Oh okay. So if I understood good, the image whenever is compressed or uncompressed, for example in Tiff files in Affinity, the quality is the same and never changes (when we speak about lossless compression). The bytes / size of the image only change in order to load quicker in the web for the other users. Hence, with or without compression in TIFF files, it doesn't matter at all... Correct me if I'm false Thanks for the help. 

[Alfred]

1 hour ago, leoskats said:

in order to load quicker in the web

Compressed files will download quicker, but will require processing power and time to uncompress so that they can be displayed. TIFF is not a “web friendly” format, so you wouldn’t use it for images intended to be displayed on web pages.

[leoskats]

19 minutes ago, αℓƒяє∂ said:

Compressed files will download quicker, but will require processing power and time to uncompress so that they can be displayed. TIFF is not a “web friendly” format, so you wouldn’t use it for images intended to be displayed on web pages.

Yes I totally agree with you, but see. Nowadays Safari can upload TIFFS, so we can have better visual results with our images and photographs. TIFFS are very big files but they can support a better color depth than the other (lossless) image format: png. Personally, I upload my TIFFs via Safari in FB and it's very okay. Also in order to transfer them in my phone for social networks, as instagram, I use the online clouds. The results are superb, why not to try something different?  

[lepr]

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[leoskats]

TIFF supports (and) 16 bit color depth. PNG - 24 that’s more widely popular supports only 8. PNG - 48 supports 16 bit color but it’s not that popular in many editing programs.

[Uncle Mez]

Guys, this is interesting discussion. 

I wondered for days what format would be good for my design works. 

I usually design (combined photo + vectors) for print and web (Facebook etc...)  But I end up with bad output when I export as PNG. 

what do you recommended to me? And why please. 

 There are tons of formats out there (svg, PNG, tiff, BMP, jpeg) but what to use and why? 

[leoskats]

2 hours ago, Arnaud Mez said:

what do you recommended to me? And why?

Hello! Well, when you use graphic design you should use PNG. PNG nowadays is popular as a photograph file too for a better quality photo archiving. PNG - 24 uses a lossless compression - so no quality is lost, but it supports an 8 bit color depth. Yes it exists also PNG - 48 bit that is more elitistic for now and has a 16 bit color depth as TIFF. I suggest that if you take photographs you should go with TIFFs for a better visual result and a bigger color palette. Don’t worry when you read that TIFF is not so web friendly -  Safari can upload perfectly TIFFS. If you do graphic design I suggest you to stay safely with PNG. You don’t need tons of colors there! 

[Alfred]

1 hour ago, leoskats said:

Don’t worry when you read that TIFF is not so web friendly -  Safari can upload perfectly TIFFS. 

I think you mean download (to your local computer), not upload (to the remote server), but even Apple users don’t all browse the Internet with Safari. Apple stopped developing Safari for Windows many years ago, and the current major browsers for Windows can’t display TIFF images. There are new formats such as WebP, but for the moment it’s safer to stick to GIF, JPEG and PNG (and perhaps SVG with PNG fallback).

[leoskats]

I totally agree with you and I understand the difficulty with TIFF file. My problem is that when you edit a RAW photo and you export it as a PNG 24 then you lose the 16 color bits depth and transform it into 8 bit. I mean you lose colors of the image. 

[lepr]

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[leoskats]

2 hours ago, owenr said:

 

My first reply told you that you can export PNG with 16 bits per channel.

 

Hm? What do you mean by this? Theoretically, I know that PNG - 24 supports 8 bit color depth... Doesn’t that apply in Affinity PNG’s export? 

[lepr]

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[leoskats]

1 minute ago, owenr said:

My fist reply told you that the export preset "PNG-24" is poorly named because it actually exports a 16 bpc PNG when the Affinity document is 16 bpc or 32 bpc.

 

 Oh I didn’t know. Really now? So you mean when I edit a RAW that it’s in 16 bit color depth and export it as a png - 24 the color depth stays again in 16 and not degraded in 8? How can you know such thing? Thanks for the information. I have used TIFF than png for this reason...