Proper way to draw and layer?

[Brownfox]

Ok, noob question.  Please don’t flame, I’ve tried to figure this out but I just don't know what to search for.  I’m trying to find the “proper” i guess you would call it, way to layer a vector design.  What I mean is, and bear with me….

 

When I’m drawing, I layer a shape upon another shape, so while you only see part of one shape, technically the rest of the other shape, exists behind it.  So to me it looks correct but, if you were to convert it to embroidery it would stack on itself and i presume not look right.

 

I didn't think much of it until I downloaded a vector of the Utah state seal, and when I ungrouped it and took it apart I found what I thought was going to be a complete shape was actually a “fill”, which was perfectly aligned with the void it was in.

 

When I used fills in Inkscape it didn’t fill the space perfectly, perhaps because of how I drew my lines in the first place.

 

Does this make sense to anyone, and can you tell me how I should be drawing?  Or know of any good sample files I could download to see how different looks were achieved?

[Alfred]

Welcome to the Serif Affinity Forums, Brownfox. :)

 

If you have two overlapping objects and you want to get rid of the overlap, you can copy the top one to the system clipboard, select both objects and 'subtract' them to make the top object take a bite out of the bottom one, and then paste the copy of the top one back in again. Alternatively, selecting both objects and using the 'divide' command will give you three separate pieces, one for the overlap and one for each of the two non-overlapping portions.

 

I'm not sure I understand your description of lines and fills. It sounds as though you're trying to draw a stroke (i.e. a line/curve) and separately draw a fill shape to match, but there's no need to do this: any shape that you draw can have a stroke or a fill, or both. Apologies if I've got the wrong end of the stick!

 

BTW, the text in your post looks tiny at my normal zoom setting. You might want to consider using the default size in future posts.

[A_B_C]

Hi Brownfox,

 

assuming you downloaded the .svg file from Wikipedia, I believe I know what you are talking about. For instance, have a look at the shield. The artist created a closed path for the outline and some open and closed paths for the background of the shield. In general, there is no need to do so, for, as Alfred said, any path can have a stroke as well as a fill.

 

However, in this particular instance the artist might have had a different objective. He or she wanted the stroke that forms the border of the shield to look jagged on the inside and smooth on the outside. So that might have been the reason, why the artist decided to use this particular method.

 

But there are other anomalies in this .svg file, that would call for a different explanation. I have the impression that the artist used an auto-trace algorithm to create a vector file from a pixel image, loaded the result of this operation into a vector editing application and started to draw over it. There are a lot of redundant elements in this file, so I wouldn’t perhaps take this as an example for good vector design.

 

I'd rather suggest that you download the examples that ship with the Affinity apps in order to get the right impression of how to organize a document. Simply go to Help > Welcome > View Samples.

 

Furthermore, Kevin House (retrograde) has a fantastic tutorial that will provide a lot of insights. Just check it out:

 

https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/topic/19509-new-affinity-designer-tutorial-cowboy-dog-character-beer-label/

https://design.tutsplus.com/tutorials/how-to-create-a-detailed-beer-label-in-affinity-designer--cms-26010

 

Hope that helps …  :)

Alex

[JET_Affinity]

When I’m drawing, I layer a shape upon another shape, so while you only see part of one shape, technically the rest of the other shape, exists behind it.  So to me it looks correct but, if you were to convert it to embroidery it would stack on itself and i presume not look right.

 

​Understand, having paths effectively partially "mask" others behind them is not necessarily "improper"; and having paths always "kiss" or abut is not always required to be considered "proper." You simply always have to construct your designs with the intended downstream use(s) in mind.

 

​Generally speaking, embroidery software can either semi-automatically "fill in" the area of a closed path with stitches, or it can stitch a "running stitch" along the path.

 

Generally, the individual paths in the file are individually assigned particular stitch types. For example, a yellow hexagonal closed path may need to have a black border stitched around it. Although in your drawing software, it is routine to apply both a fill and a stroke to a single path, that does not guarantee that the embroidery software which imports your drawing can do that. The embroidery software quite likely needs a separate path for each operation.

 

​Regarding fills, the embroidery software doesn't automatically limit itself to what are just the visible bounds of a path when viewed in your drawing software or when printed. It's entirely normal for an embroidery stitching operation to be performed on top of a preceding background stitched area. Other times, that's not desired, and you may have to use compound paths so that the stitching of what looks like a "background" leaves voids to be filled in by a subsequent stitching operation of a different color.

 

​Similar considerations are required when preparing artwork destined to be cut on a vinyl sign cutter. A design which looks and works fine for print commonly has many places where paths partially overlap others behind them. Again, that works fine for print. But sending that same file as-is to a sign shop can end in expensive disaster as the cutting knife simply follows each path in its entirety. There will be wasted vinyl and unnecessary and unwanted cuts across areas which should be cut as one piece.

 

​Even in print, overlapping is sometimes needed and other times not. Overlapping is analogous to overprinting which is an important element of building traps (chokes and spreads) where shape-following overlaps are necessary to accommodate slight miss-registration on press. That same principle is often needed in cutting sign vinyl; it's usually advantageous to provide a shape-parallel measure of overlap between adjacent dissimilar vinyl colors to make physical assembly possible and avoid gaps as vinyl shrinks over time.

 

​So again, there is no universal "proper" way to construct your drawings. They have to be constructed appropriately for the intended reproduction method.

 

​JET

[Brownfox]

Woah. Thank you so much, that answered my questions. I suspected different drawing methods could affect how a graphic is handled by the end user. That must be why the sticker and shirt shop tells me they prefer vectors converted to PDF?

 

I have an acquaintance who has opened a public safety supply shop and is getting requests for embroidery and what not. I watched him upload my design and it appeared to look correct, but seeing the state seal drawn that way made me question my methods.

 

As far as what I was seeing on Inkscape when I used the full tool, it would be hard to explain. I'll have to find an older copy of a logo I did. The best I can say is I didn't use complete shapes, so when I used the fill tool (paint bucket) it didn't have completely bound paths to fill, and it left out the corners a bit. Anyway, I'll check out that tutorial and some of the sample images. I also bought affinity photo, since I was having fun with designer. But for the love of god, the UI is tiny on my 27 inch 5k monitor. I'm 33 but I feel like and old man squinting at the damn tool bar. I believe I read there isn't a setting for it, it just is what it is for now.

 

Thanks so much for the responses.

[Brownfox]

Thanks again, I spent a few hours tonight using the subtract method to clean up my logo I made.  I seems like no matter what I do the stroke isn't considered as part of the shape?  So when I subtract one shape from another the stokes still double up.  Not a huge deal, just trying to figure out what I'm missing.

[gdenby]

The shape, the vector is defined by the position of the nodes, and the paths that connect them. The fill what can be placed within that perimeter. The stroke is what can be drawn along that perimeter.

 

If you select a shape, and change both the fill and the stroke to none, in vector view, there will seem to be nothing. But if you switch to wireframe, the underlying object appears. It just has no 2-d attributes.

 

When objects that have strokes are subject to boolean operations, the results will also have strokes. Those can be turned off, if so desired. Or the strokes can be position outside the fill, in the middle of the path, or inside the fill.  If, for instance, the stroke is set to be inside the fill, where adjacent object touch, there will appear to be a thicker line.

 

Hope that clarifies.

[JET_Affinity]

One of the most useful (and most often overlooked) functions in Illustrator's Pathfinder palette is the awkwardly-named Merge button. When invoked, it does two things to the current selection:

 

• Automatically "punches" (Boolean subtracts) intersecting areas of all paths behind each path.
• Automatically "unions" (Boolean adds) all visually touching or overlapping (contiguous) areas of paths with the same fill.

 

And it does it by actual paths' geometry, not by effectively "auto tracing" the screen display.

 

In a design involving a moderately high number of overlapping path objects, that one command gets a design destined for vinyl cutting equipment "halfway there," saving a lot of tedious and time-consuming individual punch and union operations. The "missing element" typical of many of Illustrator's features and commands is an overlap setting, which would allow the user to specify a distance by which to inset the punched paths (programmatically the same thing as the Offset Path command with a negative value) in order to create registration "traps" to facilitate assembling the individual cut-out vinyl shapes in the real world without ugly sliver voids. As it is, that part still has to be done path-by-path.

 

Most of the relatively small handful of features which actually constitute a legitimate Illustrator advantage, contain similar "almost there but not quite" Achilles' heel omissions that represent golden opportunities for surpassing Illustrator's functionality, rather than just forever playing "me, too."
 

 

JET

[SrPx]

It plays "me too" at an amazing price (which for me, is "me better" even if wouldn't be exactly reaching a "me too" , hehe). But yeah, I enjoyed reading that suggestion. I use booleans (surely more than I should) both in 2D and 3D...they are often such a time saver... Pathfinder (with that much versatility) has always been so great....