Text Flow

[Hilltop]

I'm putting together my first Affinity Publisher book (but not using the Books feature) and made, I discovered, a beginners mistake by adding chapter texts in one continues text frame. Now I need to insert another chapter somewhere in the middle and thus first cut the text flow between the two said chapters. I know how to unlink the text frames on the the two pages but would like to have the text of the second chapter start in its own text frame and not stay with the first text frame. Hope I made myself clear...

[Brian_J]

You could select all the content in chapter 2, cut, and paste it into the new text frame. Then delete the original text frames that are no longer needed.

[Old Bruce]

13 minutes ago, Hilltop said:

Now I need to insert another chapter somewhere in the middle and thus first cut the text flow between the two said chapters.

Myself I would add the second chapter to the text flow as text, not a separate set of text frames/pages. Just copy and paste as text after the end of the first chapter.

If you really do want to have multple text flows then the first thing I would try is adding two pages (I will assume you are using double page spreads) at the end of the first chapter. Make sure to have None chosen for a master. This should make the flow of text jump over the new pages. Now apply your Master Page (I do hope you are using Master Pages) to the new pages and you should be able to add the text to the new text frames and auto flow the second chapter in the proper place with the original text flow continuing after that newly added second chapter.

[Hilltop]

Thanks for your replies, guys. Both your solutions are a bit problematic because there are many other chapters following chapter 2. So, copying/pasting or inserting text will (possibly) play havoc with the layout. I'm I correct in saying that what I really want, namely cut the text flow between two frames but leaving the text in the second frame is not possible?

[Old Bruce]

6 minutes ago, Hilltop said:

Thanks for your replies, guys. Both your solutions are a bit problematic because there are many other chapters following chapter 2. So, copying/pasting or inserting text will (possibly) play havoc with the layout. I'm I correct in saying that what I really want, namely cut the text flow between two frames but leaving the text in the second frame is not possible?

I have to say that I have no clear idea of what you are actually up against. Or what it is that you are wanting to achieve.

Is it simply adding some text (a chapter) to the middle of the existing text in the book? If so why do you need/want a second separate text flow?

Currently do you have multiple text flows in your book? When I lay out a novel I have one text flow for all the chapters. Multiple text flows as you describe will prove to be a recipe for disaster later on.

[thomaso]

1 hour ago, Hilltop said:

not using the Books feature) and made, I discovered, a beginners mistake by adding chapter texts in one continues text frame.

What specifically made you "discover" that the used workflow is "a beginner mistake" ?

56 minutes ago, Hilltop said:

So, copying/pasting or inserting text will (possibly) play havoc with the layout.

In what way havoc ? Does the existing layout contain other elements (images, graphics, margin column, footnotes, etc) in addition to the story text frames? If yes, are they pinned to the story text?

[Hilltop]

2 hours ago, Old Bruce said:

Myself I would add the second chapter to the text flow as text, not a separate set of text frames/pages. Just copy and paste as text after the end of the first chapter.

If you really do want to have multple text flows then the first thing I would try is adding two pages (I will assume you are using double page spreads) at the end of the first chapter. Make sure to have None chosen for a master. This should make the flow of text jump over the new pages. Now apply your Master Page (I do hope you are using Master Pages) to the new pages and you should be able to add the text to the new text frames and auto flow the second chapter in the proper place with the original text flow continuing after that newly added second chapter.

Yes, I use a double spread and master pages. The issue is that I tried your second option but the flow of text jumps over some twenty pages. That's confusing and difficult to maintain when further edits are needed. 

2 hours ago, Old Bruce said:

I have to say that I have no clear idea of what you are actually up against. Or what it is that you are wanting to achieve.

Is it simply adding some text (a chapter) to the middle of the existing text in the book? If so why do you need/want a second separate text flow?

Currently do you have multiple text flows in your book? When I lay out a novel I have one text flow for all the chapters. Multiple text flows as you describe will prove to be a recipe for disaster later on.

I want separate text flows for each chapter as their subject is not continuous (it's not a novel but a collection of various articles) and I wish to reshuffle them here and there. I would think that multiple text flows would prevent disaster later on. Please correct me if I'm wrong!

1 hour ago, thomaso said:

What specifically made you "discover" that the used workflow is "a beginner mistake" ?

In what way havoc ? Does the existing layout contain other elements (images, graphics, margin column, footnotes, etc) in addition to the story text frames? If yes, are they pinned to the story text?

By havoc I mean that when I change some settings in a text frame that is continued multiple pages down the line, I won't be able to see possible effects.

I hope that the above makes it clearer what the situation is and what I'm after. But, as I said, I might be wrong in the whole issue....

[Brian_J]

34 minutes ago, Hilltop said:

I want separate text flows for each chapter as their subject is not continuous (it's not a novel but a collection of various articles) and I wish to reshuffle them here and there. I would think that multiple text flows would prevent disaster later on. Please correct me if I'm wrong!

I can see how separate text flows for each chapter might be desirable in your situation.

I think the way I would approach separating the text flow for each chapter is as follows:

1. Save a copy of your existing document.
2. In your original document, delete the text/content from chapter 2 and every chapter after it.
3. Remove the text flow after chapter 1 (in original document).
4. Open the copy of the document and copy the content of each chapter, one at a time, into your original document, setting the text flow for that chapter as needed.

If there are images or pinned elements in the document, they should transfer over fine in the copy/paste. I can't think of a time I have had an issues copying/pasting content between files, but I'm not sure if there are any elements in your chapters that would present problems.

[Old Bruce]

50 minutes ago, Hilltop said:

I want separate text flows for each chapter as their subject is not continuous (it's not a novel but a collection of various articles) and I wish to reshuffle them here and there. I would think that multiple text flows would prevent disaster later on. Please correct me if I'm wrong!

In this case yes, multiple text flows would be best in my opinion too. I did my usual leap to the wrong conclusion and offered up bad advice.

The way I would do this is to make a Template, include the text styles you'll want to use. Include some Master Pages you'll use and lay out each article/chapter in separate documents, just do a quick and nasty layout so you know how long each article is. Nine pages, or twenty two and a half or six and a quarter. Then you'll know the total number of pages required.

Then do the actual layout with all the fine tuning. If you need to move the articles around I would think it would be much easier than trying to insert text into a single text flow as I had suggested. Be aware that moveing pages using the Pages Panel is apparently finicky. So check and double check after doing so. Save often and do the occasional File > Save As... after moving pages to have backups.

[Hilltop]

Thanks, Brian_J. That might be a good way to go about it. While I was doing some stretching, I got another idea: Cut the last chapter, remove the text frame, create a new one via master page and paste the text back in. And then work my way up until I have all chapters in separate text frames.

Thanks, Old Bruce. Your advise seems to point towards using the Books feature and is completely logical  and would be perfect for projects such as mine. However, I saw too many posts advising against using it. So, I fell into the trap of one text frame. Duh!

Anyway, my question -- whether there's a way to unlink two text frames with the option to also cut the text there so that the second text frame retains its text -- has been, albeit implicitly answered in the negative. Too bad as it would have made my issue easy to solve. 

[Brian_J]

6 minutes ago, Hilltop said:

I got another idea: Cut the last chapter, remove the text frame, create a new one via master page and paste the text back in. And then work my way up until I have all chapters in separate text frames.

Ingenious. That sounds like a good way to go about it.

I tend to save a backup of a file before making any drastic edits just in case things get hosed up. If you work your way back from the last chapter as you mentioned, saving a backup copy prior to the edits would be optional.

[Hilltop]

Thanks! Actually, I just went through the whole document and it was easier than I thought. I selected the text of a chapter, cut it, unlinked the first text frame and pasted the text back in again. Now there's no problem when adding extra pages somewhere in the middle of the book. 

I do a 'save as' after, at least, every chapter, so that I can always go back when things go AWOL.

Brian_J and Old Bruce: thanks again for your help!