flattening...

[*mark]

It all seems so simple - Flatten document command - except it doesn't. 

I've flattened my document, merged and flattened again (just to be doubly sure) and still when I add outline to the overall image, it won't - because I have used a 'rounded rectangle' in my design.

As a result, no matter how many times I flatten, AF keeps the rounded rectangle as an 'unflattened layer', so when I try to add an outline to my overall design, I simply get an outline around my rounded rectangle... smh..

At what point is a flattened document actually flattened and not retaining hidden layers I don't want, cannot detect or remove??

Any advice greatly received thank you.

[GarryP]

There are lots of ‘moving parts’ and unknowns (to us) in your description.

Would you be able to supply an example document, and give us a step-by-step workflow which we can follow to try and reproduce the problem?

[*mark]

Thanks Garry, it really isn't that complex - that's why I'm baffled that the rounded rectangle can't be flattened, yet doesn't show as a separate layer, until using the outline tool. Here's my image: 1 layer with text, a rounded rectangle around the text - my intention, flatten and add outline to the outer edge. Job done. 

 

[GarryP]

You’ve given us a PNG image, which only has one layer, not a document.

Can you supply the AFPHOTO document, which contains the layers you are trying to flatten, instead?

(My suspicion is that you are trying to add a Stroke to a Pixel layer, which (I think) can’t be done, but I can’t tell without the actual document.)

[*mark]

Thanks for your input Garry - Yes its a PNG - I tried to reduce the size - but in doing that (for reasons I haven't yet got my head round) Affinity pixelates the document - whereas in PSD's it simply shrinks everything and maintains picture sharpness.

So here's the full size attached - no pixel layer - simply type layers and the rounded rectangle... the rounded rectangle remaining a hidden layer when flattened - the only way so far to get an outline, is to save first as a jpeg, then bring the document back into Affinity to add the stroke to the jpeg.

Why I cannot do that in one, with a supposedly flat document, I can't work out... Thanks

SERIFcopy.afphoto

[markw]

I’m still unsure of what you are expecting to happen? Sorry.
After flattening everything down it all becomes one Pixel layer for me as expected.
As the original white Rectangle had rounded corners so dose the now new single Pixel layer.
When you add the Outline Effect where do you expect to see it applied?
In the attached I’ve used Merge Visible which has given me the Pixel layer at the top.
I have then used the Outline Effect to give the red border.
I then turned off your four original vector layers.

[R C-R]

2 hours ago, *mark said:

So here's the full size attached - no pixel layer - simply type layers and the rounded rectangle... the rounded rectangle remaining a hidden layer when flattened....

Not happening here. As @markw just mentioned, for me as well it all becomes one Pixel layer. How specifically are you flattening the file? Are you using Document > Flatten or doing something else?

 

2 hours ago, *mark said:

Yes its a PNG - I tried to reduce the size - but in doing that (for reasons I haven't yet got my head round) Affinity pixelates the document...

PNG is a pixel (raster image) file format, so whether you change its size or not there is no mystery there, nor is it surprising that if you flatten an afphoto file it reduces to a single Pixel (raster image) layer.

[GarryP]

In addition to, and extending, the advice above...

18 hours ago, *mark said:

but in doing that (for reasons I haven't yet got my head round) Affinity pixelates the document

When you Flatten a document (via menu “Document → Flatten”) the software converts what you can see in the document (except guides, grid, etc. basically ‘your stuff’) into a Pixel Layer.
This is why the document looks “pixelated”, because it’s now only made of pixels.

18 hours ago, *mark said:

whereas in PSD's it simply shrinks everything and maintains picture sharpness

A PSD file can hold vector information so that's why you can see a difference.

18 hours ago, *mark said:

the rounded rectangle remaining a hidden layer when flattened

There is no “hidden layer”.
If you are using the Outline Effect to get your “outline” (that term is vague so it’s better to be specific about what you are doing) then what you describe, as much as I can understand it, is the expected result of using that Effect on your flattened document.
The Outline Effect looks for the ‘outside’ of the pixels in the layer which it is applied to (don’t ask me how) and then recolours the pixels beyond that 'boundary' to the user-specified distance.
In this case, the software finds the pixels that make up the rounded rectangle and recolours the pixels around those to give you the outline.

------

I think you may be flattening the document without having any need to do so.

If you can tell us what you want to do, rather than how you are doing it, then we can probably advise better.

[*mark]

Thanks for your input people - much appreciated.

In short, what I'm trying to achieve/expecting to happen. 1: is an outline around the whole rectangular extremity of the document.

In addition to this, 2: I also want an outline around the rounded rectangle...  That's all.

As I'm interpreting it, (from the examples of others) - I can have the existing outline around the rounded rectangle, but consequently, I can't 'flatten' the document and add an outline to the whole document? Is that right?

And therefore - does the rounded rectangle/shape stay 'live', irrespective of using the flatten or merge commands?

(NB. Regarding my interpretation of 'hidden', if the document is 'flattened', but the rounded rectangle isn't, that's still a layer (as such) that I can't see ('hidden' by any other suitable description). I can't think of how else to best describe it. Thanks

[Westerwälder]

Was soll eine Abflachung sein den Begriff kenne ich in Affinity Photo nicht.
Mehrere Ebenen zusammenführen oder Abwärts zusammenlegen.
Vergess das altertümchen aus den 1980 Jahren aus den USA die verkaufen Dir nur Schrott!

What is a flattening supposed to be? I don't know the term in Affinity Photo
Merge multiple layers or merge downwards.
Forget the antiquity from the 1980s from the USA, they only sell you junk!

Rechtecke.afphoto

[PaulEC]

43 minutes ago, *mark said:

an outline around the whole rectangular extremity of the document

You can't put an outline outside the document. How could you see it if it was outside the bounds of the document? It has to be inside the document!

[markw]

The white your are currently seeing, outside of and surrounding your rounded rectangle, is just the document/canvas fill colour, it is not something that can have effects applied to it or otherwise be interacted with.
The background white can be turned Off to give you a Transparent document background if needed, but that’s all.
In order to have a line around the outer edge of the document there first needs to be some form of object filling the whole canvas like for example a square cornered rectangle that can have a stroke applied to it.

Regarding your current rounded rectangle it already has a thin black stroke could that not be changed to something more to your liking e.g. width, colour etc… in the Stroke panel?

[*mark]

59 minutes ago, PaulEC said:

You can't put an outline outside the document. How could you see it if it was outside the bounds of the document? It has to be inside the document!

This is a joke right? 😂 I said the 'extremity' of the document - the 'edge' of which, it is not OUTSIDE of it, and since you ask, yes you can outline the extremity. So that when it's on the white background of a website for example, it's outlined with a colour to separate the image from the white background of the webpage.

[markw]

16 minutes ago, *mark said:

So that when it's on the white background of a website for example, it's outlined with a colour to separate the image from the white background of the webpage.

Dose my post immediately above your last post help explain what is happening in you document?

As for merging the content of the document into one layer, I think it’s hard for us looking in from the outside, as it were, to see what editorial advantage/s you are hoping to gain by doing that?

[*mark]

18 minutes ago, markw said:

 

 

18 minutes ago, markw said:

Regarding your current rounded rectangle it already has a thin black stroke which you could change to something else; width, colour etc… in the Stroke panel.

That sort of answers it Mark - Thanks.

The actuality being, if there isn't a rounded rectangle or shape, and I flatten, I can outline the whole area. By introducing the rounded rectangle, it then assumes that to be my new boundary, and disregards anything outside the rounded rectangle, flattened or not.

However, if I flatten and save 'as it is' - it will save the outlined rounded rectangle and the area outside of it. Then I have to drag it back in and outline the edge of the whole thing, so they've both got the outline - if that makes any sense. Which I was trying to do simultaneously in the AP file, not on the jpeg. But it appears 2 outlines in the same document isn't possible. Thanks again for the help

[markw]

2 minutes ago, *mark said:

In order to have a line around the outer edge of the document there first needs to be some form of object filling the whole canvas like for example a square cornered rectangle that can have a stroke applied to it.

Doing the above will give you your outline.
When you merge everything together it will look as it should.

But again I'm still not sure what editorial advantage you hope this merging down will give?

[*mark]

1 hour ago, Westerwälder said:

What is a flattening supposed to be? I don't know the term in Affinity Photo

Try the document menu at the bottom - it's all there...

[- S -]

It's because pixels aren't covering the whole canvas.  If you were to add a white Fill layer behind and rasterise it, it work as expected – as the layer would contain opaque pixels that same size as the canvas.

Depending on what you're doing, it may be more flexible (and non-destructive) to use a second rectangle instead of Layer Effects for the outline.

 

[*mark]

3 minutes ago, markw said:

there first needs to be some form of object filling the whole canvas

That's not actually correct Mark, since as I tried to explain, if there is no rounded rectangle or shape used, when the outline command is used, it will automatically outline the edge of the document (that's why it has to be flattened first - my editorial advantage? although of course there are many ways, to do many things).

Therefore, adding a square rectangle then isn't necessary to get an outline on an already (flattened) rectangular document.

If it's not flattened, it outlines anything and everything.

[*mark]

4 minutes ago, - S - said:

It's because pixels aren't covering the whole canvas.

Thanks - that's very helpful and a good work around to what I'm doing - (and gets me my 2 outlines). Appreciate that - Cheers 'S'

[markw]

In the attached first screenshot I have added a Square Rectangle at the bottom of the Layer stack which has a red stroke applied to the inside edge of it via the Stroke panel.
Is this the kind of outline you want around your document? Yes/No?
Using; Document > Flatten now will rasterise all the document’s content into one layer. See second screenshot.

[*mark]

14 hours ago, markw said:

Is this the kind of outline you want around your document? Yes/No?

That's it yes, what I hadn't realised, is that the rounded rectangle layer 'compromises' or repositions the perceived edges of the document and that new layer is then required to reinstate the full width and height of the document. Thanks for all your help resolving. Much appreciated.