Need advice from experienced Mac Mini M2 users

[Chris Sutton]

I'm considering replacing my (old) Macbook Pro with a Mac Mini M2 (not the Pro).  I edit and publish books for local and upcoming authors - budget is a concern.  Is anyone out there using a Mac Mini M2?  Will the 8gb RAM Mini be sufficient to run Affinity, or do I need to go to 16GB?

 I'm bi-lingual Apple and Windows, I prefer Apple for the work I do. Is there much difference between Mac and Windows 11 Affinity 2.2?

[NotMyFault]

Every current Mac will do and you will certainly recognize the upgrade in speed. Please always take as much RAM as your budget allows, and minimum 16GB.

Publisher files are prone to get extremely large, and having less RAM will slow you down.

Apple is right that Macs with their uniform memory architecture and SSD perform quite well even for 8GB in principle, but wrong at the same time as they definitely will perform better with more RAM, have longer  usable life span of the device, and higher resale value. It would be „Falschgeiz“ trying to save 15% on a new purchase, and permanently suffer from degraded performance.

Similar, don’t choose the smallest SSD, those have lower IO throughput, too.

Edited November 10, 2023 by NotMyFault
PS Falschgeiz: trying to save money in the wrong place

[Andreas Scherer]

9 hours ago, Chris Sutton said:

Will the 8gb RAM Mini be sufficient to run Affinity?

I've been using Affinity V1 and V2 on Mac Mini M1 in its base configuration—8 GB RAM, 256 GB SSD—both at work and in private since 2021 and haven't faced any obstacles with this combination.

[v_kyr]

This has been often discussed like here (EN translation) on this site recently for example.

• https://www-heise-de.translate.goog/news/Wie-Pro-sind-8-GByte-RAM-Debatte-um-Apples-karge-RAM-Ausstattung-entbrannt-9356803.html?_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=de&_x_tr_pto=wapp

In my experience, you won't get very far with just 8 GB of RAM, nor with an SSD that's too small. Both of these reduce the performance of the systems for more demanding tasks, so you shouldn't save money at the wrong end. - If you just see how much main memory and disk space even trivial APub files use up, this should actually be obvious!

Personally I won‘t buy anything below 32 GB of RAM and an internal 1 TB SSD. But in your case for a plain Mac Mini M2 I would go at least with 16 GB of RAM and a 512 GB or even better a 1 TB SSD.

[bwob]

I've been using a Mac Mini M2 with 8GB RAM for a while now, and it's been handling Affinity pretty well. Editing and publishing books should be fine on it. But if your budget allows, going for 16GB could give you some extra headroom.

[Andreas Scherer]

1 hour ago, v_kyr said:

If you just see how much main memory and disk space even trivial APub files use up, this should actually be obvious!

Simultaneously opening half a dozen (6) of my recent APub projects requires about 1.7 GB of RAM on MacOS 13.6.1 Ventura on the Mac Mini M1 described above. I really don't feel the system gets bogged down in any way, shape, or form at all. Using linked ressources keeps all of these projects at around 500–700 KB (yes, Kilobytes!).

I guess my gist is: Don't listen to the fearmongers! 😇

[thomaso]

On 11/10/2023 at 12:19 AM, Chris Sutton said:

I'm considering replacing my (old) Macbook Pro

13 hours ago, Andreas Scherer said:

I guess my gist is: Don't listen to the fearmongers!

Apart from the fact that Apple's silicon architecture handles RAM + GPU differently then before AND that Affinity document's content + tasks may be quite differently demanding, this site has several articles about RAM and various M-versions, for instance

https://eclecticlight.co/tag/ram/

https://eclecticlight.co/2021/03/26/how-big-should-the-memory-and-ssd-be-in-your-next-m1-mac/

[Andreas Scherer]

14 hours ago, Andreas Scherer said:

at work and in private

Amendment re storage usage: At work we are required to store all our projects on the centrally managed NAS, which has more TB than I care to count, so the SSDs only hold installed programs. At home, my private Mac Mini M1 with "228Gi" SSD is "59%" full after two years of use (according to "df -h"). If need be, I could always move stuff to any of my backup SSDs.

[lacerto]

15 hours ago, Andreas Scherer said:

I guess my gist is: Don't listen to the fearmongers! 😇

It of course depends on the workload, and personal needs and preferences, but I tend to agree... I have had MacBook Air entry level M1 2020 with 8GB RAM and 256GB SSD now for 3 years. I recently got into a situation (after having upgraded to Sonoma) where I had only 10GB free disk space left and did not want to install a cleaner to mess around my system, even cache files. I backed up all on a portable SSD with Time Machine, did a clean reinstall using Ventura, which I immediately upgraded to Sonoma 14.1.1, and had about 220GB free disk space after having finished, just a couple of hours later. Now I have installed all apps back (including Affinity and Adobe apps, a bunch of other graphic design apps, VisualStudio and Xcode), and the most important documents, and have about 150GB free disk space.

I already checked what I'd get for this "toy" if I trade in to a new Apple laptop: EUR512 (EUR 362 for the computer, and EUR 150 as an Apple trade in offer), so I'd basically only need to pay about EUR 600 to get a new M2, or about 800 more for an entry level M3 Pro. I am tempted, but might be able to resist 🙂 I am just writing this to let you know that you can get a well performing computer for graphic design at about EUR1,100 that you would need to pay for an entry level M2 laptop (or Mini) and keep it for years, or trade it in after a few years and still get a good price. If you really do not need a high-end super computer, settle with something more reasonable and more suitable to your budget!

[v_kyr]

1 hour ago, Andreas Scherer said:

Simultaneously opening half a dozen (6) of my recent APub projects requires about 1.7 GB of RAM on MacOS 13.6.1 Ventura on the Mac Mini M1 described above. I really don't feel the system gets bogged down in any way, shape, or form at all. Using linked ressources keeps all of these projects at around 500–700 KB (yes, Kilobytes!).

I guess my gist is: Don't listen to the fearmongers! 😇

Then you may don‘t run other huge apps in parallel, I always do and need to.

9 minutes ago, Andreas Scherer said:

Amendment re storage usage: At work we are required to store all our projects on the centrally managed NAS, which has more TB than I care to count, so the SSDs only holds installed programs. At home, my private Mac Mini M1 with "228Gi" SSD is "59%" full after two years of use (according to "df -h"). If need be, I could always move stuff to any of my backup SSDs.

The Affinity apps are known to often have problems when dealing with direct access to external/remote data file storage like NAS drives. Further having always to copying files first back and forth due to too small sized SSDs isn‘t fun and something which offers an overall fluid workflow, no matter if at work or home.

Thus it‘s overall better to always have some more RAM and storage space in reserve here if urgently needed by certain project processings.

[thomaso]

5 minutes ago, lacerto said:

did not want to install a cleaner to mess around my system, even cache files. I backed up all on a portable SSD with Time Machine, did a clean reinstall using Ventura, which I immediately upgraded to Sonoma 14.1.1

FWIW, usually cache files aren't backuped by Time Machine and you can get some used disk space back if you interrupt the local snapshots for 24 hours + then reboot your mac in Save Boot Mode (which cleans some caches).

Curios: What was the reason to do a clean install of Ventura first if you wanted to get Sonoma actually?

[lacerto]

9 minutes ago, thomaso said:

Curios: What was the reason to do a clean install of Ventura first if you wanted to get Sonoma actually?

For some reason the reinstaller did not offer Sonoma. I'd have chosen that if offered. But after a direct upgrade from Ventura, no disk space was lost for the upgrade. I do not know where I had lost all that disk space but now I am basically back in a situation where I was three years ago, having about 150GB free disk space. It took me 3 years to waste it, pretty much the time Apple thinks one should spend money for a new mac 🙂 Really, no clue on what the now saved 140GB were wasted, but there is no way a cleaner could have done the same! Just to encourage someone in doubt to do the same -- just a few hours spent on the job... 

[Andreas Scherer]

1 hour ago, v_kyr said:

Then you may don‘t run other huge apps in parallel

Indeed not. The next largest RAM consumer is Firefox at around 900MB. I haven't checked VLC (for background noise) nor Rawtherapee (for RAW processing).

1 hour ago, v_kyr said:

The Affinity apps are known to often have problems when dealing with direct access to external/remote data file storage like NAS drives.

Apart from the time delay we very rarely have issues. (There have been other times with the old server.)

1 hour ago, v_kyr said:

having always to copying files first back and forth due to too small sized SSDs

I do copy my projects with "unison" between work and home via a 32GB MicroSD card on a daily basis. No problem there.

1 hour ago, v_kyr said:

Thus it‘s overall better to always have some more RAM and storage space in reserve

I still don't buy this argument after three decades of computer usage. I started out with machines at around 8MB RAM and 250MB of internal storage in 1991. Over the years I upgraded both resources at a factor of 1000, but guess what, it never ever matched my own productivity—the machines were always faster and larger than I had use for.

[v_kyr]

4 hours ago, Andreas Scherer said:

I still don't buy this argument after three decades of computer usage. I started out with machines at around 8MB RAM and 250MB of internal storage in 1991. Over the years I upgraded both resources at a factor of 1000, but guess what, it never ever matched my own productivity—the machines were always faster and larger than I had use for.

Then you probably do (and always did/run) only small/tiny things or project related stuff here. - If I fire up an Affinity app, together with an Jetbrains dev IDE & image + database server, FF and some smaller tools, I would go nowhere with just 8 GB of RAM. Things then would rapidly slow down and the system would often stall due to too much I/O swapping.

[NotMyFault]

To summarize:

it will absolutely depend on your actual workload, sensitivity to perceived slowness, willingness to invest or accept compromise.

nobody can give you a good advice. You must understand your requirements and make your own decision. And accept the risk of bad decision. 

[Andreas Scherer]

1 hour ago, v_kyr said:

an Affinity app, together with an Jetbrains dev IDE

Nice comparison: https://www.jetbrains.com/help/idea/prerequisites.html vs https://affinity.help/designer/English.lproj/index.html?page=pages/Appendix/system_requirements.html?title=System requirements 🙃

[v_kyr]

56 minutes ago, Andreas Scherer said:

Nice comparison …

For Affinity the minimum to start & use the app. Now if you add a bunch of contents (huger images & drawings etc.) let‘s say for a >100 page APub (aka the suites greatest memory waster app) and apply some operations on these, it‘s memory usage will be factor x of that for RAM & doc‘s used disk space.

For IDEA add some common needed dev plugins, aka some Java/Kotlin based Frameworks/libraries and other services stuff (from Maven repositories, db and utility help stuff etc.). Then during project work, indexing, runtime & build processes having only 8 GB of RAM is nothing and no fun (nearly impossible) to have to work with. - For the distributed systems project stuff I usually tend/have to deal with in daily practice, having an M-based Mac with at least 24/32 GB of RAM is needed. 

[Andreas Scherer]

27 minutes ago, v_kyr said:

For the distributed systems project stuff I usually tend/have to deal with

I totally understand that this can easily require more than 8GB RAM/250GB storage.

What I don't understand is why you are blaming APub to break the wall, when it – at least from the info above – requires only a fraction of your other main app?

23 hours ago, Chris Sutton said:

I edit and publish books for local and upcoming authors - budget is a concern.

I stick with my observation that the OP with the task at hand will most likely not require more than a base configuration on any current Mx-Mac.

[Chris Sutton]

Andreas - thank you. Good advice.  From all that I have seen so far in response to my question, I tend to agree with you.  Most responses seem to be coming from people whose use of Affinity for graphic design.  What I do is mainly text based for print books, with some photo enhancement.

I'm currently using a 2013 MacPro (current Big Sur) with backup on 2 external hard drives (one as an archive) and working files in One Drive. The Mac handles the load of a photograph heavy 200 page book easily. I'm only retiring the MacPro because it will be unsupported soon. Being unfamiliar with the Mini and not knowing how much faster the M2 is than the M1, I was looking for sensible comparisons.  

I think I have my answers now. the 8GB will be fine.  I started in the 1960s with an Apple IIe and clunky cardboard disks. When you have worked in DOS and in Windows from the first iterration, speed doesn't bother you. At 77 years of age I don't need to replace my tired old work horse with a rolls royce.  What we have today is pure luxury.   Thanks again.

Chris

[thomaso]

1 hour ago, Chris Sutton said:

Being unfamiliar with the Mini and not knowing how much faster the M2 is than the M1, I was looking for sensible comparisons.  

On this site you can choose two setups to get them compared in various aspects, for instance:

https://nanoreview.net/en/cpu-compare/apple-m2-vs-apple-m1

It may be in particular interesting if you want to compare the (none), Pro, Max, Ultra models of different M versions, for instance to detect that a M1 Pro can be more useful than a M2 (no Pro).

That might mean it could be more useful (cost/performance/efficiency) to purchase a former model than a currently available model, for instance in Apple's refurbished store:

https://www.apple.com/shop/refurbished/mac

[v_kyr]

On 11/11/2023 at 12:56 AM, Andreas Scherer said:

What I don't understand is why you are blaming APub to break the wall, when it – at least from the info above – requires only a fraction of your other main app?

As APub is a huge memory hog (RAM and disk memory wise) when used for some none trivial things. Your info pointing just shows the initial mem size marketing tells for running the app, not what happens mem wise then when you create and feed in some greater doc with many pages etc. - Just search over the forum for APub used by people on M based hardware in conjunction with occupied memory size growing over working on document iterations.

[v_kyr]

On 11/11/2023 at 12:21 AM, Chris Sutton said:

... the 8GB will be fine.