Next Page and Previous Page Shortcuts Display Incorrectly in Document Menu

[walt.farrell]

I know this has been reported previously, but it's still not fixed and it just confused me as a new Mac user, and it was hard to find the report, so I thought I'd mention it again

The default shortcut keys for Next Page and Previous Page in Publisher on Mac are fn+Cmd+down-arrow (or up-arrow). However, they display in the Document menu as simply Cmd+down-arrow (or up-arrow). The display in the Document menu should be fixed.

The only prior report I've found so far is this one:

 

[loukash]

1 hour ago, walt.farrell said:

it just confused me as a new Mac user

Well, even me as a Mac user of 35 years gets confused nowadays because…

1 hour ago, walt.farrell said:

they display in the Document menu as simply Cmd+down-arrow (or up-arrow)

… and the thing here is that this is in fact a new MacOS schtick as of Ventura:
The "arrow up/down" symbols apparently represent "page up/down" keys = fn+arrowup/down.
Whereas regular arrow-up/-down keys are represented in the menus by solid up/down triangles ▲ ▼ as printed on the actual keys.

That applies to all apps on current MacOS.
Definitely Apple is to blame.

[loukash]

What's still broken though – and as far as I recall has been reported already – is the display of the Home character = ⤒
It's invisible.

[walt.farrell]

15 minutes ago, loukash said:

The "arrow up/down" symbols apparently represent "page up/down" keys = fn+arrowup/down.
Whereas regular arrow-up/-down keys are represented in the menus by solid up/down triangles ▲ ▼ as printed on the actual keys.

Thanks. That may explain why the Document menu items display as they do, but it's still inconsistent with the display in the Shortcuts dialog.

[loukash]

31 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

it's still inconsistent with the display in the Shortcuts dialog.

It's just as inconsistent as if you add shortcuts via System Settings → Keyboard → App Shortcuts where you'd see regular arrows as well, not triangles.

As I said:

50 minutes ago, loukash said:

Definitely Apple is to blame.

 

[loukash]

P.S. Welcome to Mac  

[walt.farrell]

1 hour ago, loukash said:

It's just as inconsistent as if you add shortcuts via System Settings → Keyboard → App Shortcuts where you'd see regular arrows as well, not triangles.

 

Document menu:

Publisher Shortcuts Settings:

I am talking strictly about what I see within Publisher (though I may have misunderstood what you meant).

[loukash]

2 hours ago, walt.farrell said:

I am talking strictly about what I see within Publisher

It's the same inconsistency as in other apps. I just randomly assigned a (not needed) shortcut with fn-arrowup (=page up) to an audio editor that has its own shortcut UI similar to Affinity, and it's exactly the same discrepancy:

I have my doubts that Serif can do anything here except filing a bug report with Apple.

[MikeTO]

I believe that 'function' has been deprecated by Apple as a valid modifier on macOS and it's now reserved for system use. The shortcuts still work but perhaps they can't be displayed in the menus now.

I don't think Publisher is showing the wrong shortcut for Previous and Next page because Help describes two shortcuts for these commands, Cmd+Page Up/Down.

But I think there's an issue with the right modifiers and page up/down glyphs appearing under Sonoma. Here's a thread. I only have Sonoma but I recall these appearing in the menus before I upgraded.

With regard to the triangle vs. arrow thing - that's a bug in macOS and not in Affinity, it happens with Apple's apps, too, and pre-dates Sonoma. They display correctly in the Shortcuts dialog because that's under Serif's control. Here's a thread.

[loukash]

35 minutes ago, MikeTO said:

I believe that 'function' has been deprecated by Apple as a valid modifier on macOS and it's now reserved for system use.

Well, fn is now this silly "globe" key by default "because reason". One of the first things I turned off for good while exploring my new MacBook a few months ago:
System Settings → Keyboard → Press 🌐 key to [ Do Nothing ] (thankyouverymuch FFS!)

Then it just does what it's supposed to do: fn

(With Karabiner-Elements, you can then also program an input modification that will allow NumPad key simulation via fn, just like my good ole PowerBook G4 does. Also the first thing to do on any new MacOS installation via Karabiner: remapping the right option key to NumPad Enter, also just like my old PowerBook does. You just can't kill decades old habits and muscle memories… )

44 minutes ago, MikeTO said:

With regard to the triangle vs. arrow thing - that's a bug in macOS

My gut feeling is that the triangles are now "by design" in the menus. 

[MikeTO]

2 hours ago, loukash said:

Well, fn is now this silly "globe" key by default "because reason". One of the first things I turned off for good while exploring my new MacBook a few months ago:
System Settings → Keyboard → Press 🌐 key to [ Do Nothing ] (thankyouverymuch FFS!)

Then it just does what it's supposed to do: fn

(With Karabiner-Elements, you can then also program an input modification that will allow NumPad key simulation via fn, just like my good ole PowerBook G4 does. Also the first thing to do on any new MacOS installation via Karabiner: remapping the right option key to NumPad Enter, also just like my old PowerBook does. You just can't kill decades old habits and muscle memories… )

My gut feeling is that the triangles are now "by design" in the menus. 

Apple's official list of keyboard modifier symbols show they should appear as arrows: https://support.apple.com/en-ca/guide/mac-help/cpmh0011/mac. I believe the triangles were a side effect of the change in system fonts. It's curious that Apple hasn't fixed it yet, but they're not always very speedy at fixing bugs.

Fn really is deprecated as a modifier key in Apple's developer docs and is reserved for system use. https://developer.apple.com/documentation/swiftui/eventmodifiers/function

I turned off the silly globe key, too. 🙂 

I'll have to check out Karabiner. I rarely use the right option key and could probably make better use of it. Thanks.

[Old Bruce]

Here on my Mac OS 12.7 I used to have the First/Previous/Next/Last Page set up to use the home, page up, page down, and end keys on their own. One of the reasons I purchased this (Apple extended) keyboard was its having those keys.

The home key now requires the use of a Modifier key to work. And I doubt that it ever actually showed up in the menu as a shortcut. I include a screenshot to illustrate the way I have the Control + Home set for the First Page shortcut. The Control glyph is visible and the Home isn't, yet there is a blank area present. The other keys work without the Control Modifier.

[loukash]

25 minutes ago, Old Bruce said:

One of the reasons I purchased this (Apple extended) keyboard was its having those keys.

If a keyboard has the fn key, you'll always get home/pageup/down/end keys with fn-arrows.
But home/pageup/down/end are usually reserved for general scrolling on system level, that's why they are likely blocked for custom shorcuts, also via System Settings → Keyboard.

33 minutes ago, Old Bruce said:

The Control glyph is visible and the Home isn't

Yes, that's an old bug. Not sure if on Serif's or on Apple's part though.

[Old Bruce]

I looked at the symbols used from the Page that @MikeTO linked to and compared the glyphs there with the ones in my screenshot earlier. Quite different.

 Home, end, page up, and page down.

 

[loukash]

Different fonts, different glyphs. Apple has definitely made a mess here.

[DWright]

I have logged this with our UI team, Apple has changed the symbol for the Page up and down on their keyboards the document menu shows the new one while the Settings Shortcut shows the older keyboard symbol.