Indent to here with drop caps & distance to text partially respected + paragraph sign going wild

[laurent32]

[walt.farrell]

Interesting.

One comment: You say the "paragraph mark" is going wild. That's a Section/End-of-Story mark, not a paragraph mark.

[laurent32]

You're correct @walt.farrell !

Sorry for that, you know my English and my Affinity knowledge are not 100%…

[Andreas CH]

Zum Englisch, das kann ich auch nicht. Ich verwende DeepL
Für dich: https://www.deepl.com/fr/translator

Zu deinem Problem.
Die Initiale hast du 2 Zeilen hoch. Das heisst die 3. Zeile wird «normal» gesetzt.
Anscheinend hast du zudem noch einen Einzug gesetzt.

Setzte den Einzug an die Stelle des Textbeginn, so beginnt die Zeile immer am gleichen Ort.

 

 

Pour l'anglais, je ne sais pas non plus. J'utilise DeepL
Pour toi : https://www.deepl.com/fr/translator

Concernant ton problème.
Tu as mis l'initiale sur deux lignes. Cela signifie que la 3e ligne est placée » normalement «.
Apparemment, tu as également mis un retrait.
Place le retrait à l'endroit du début du texte, ainsi la ligne commence toujours au même endroit.

 

 

As for English, I don't know that either. I use DeepL
For you: https://www.deepl.com/fr/translator

About your problem.
You have the initial 2 lines high. That means the 3rd line is set "normally".
Apparently you have also set an indentation.
If you set the indentation at the beginning of the text, the line always starts at the same place.

 

[laurent32]

Thanks for your comment @Andreas CH.

In this example, i'm using "Indent to here" :

"Indent here" was placed just before the "t" of "this" and the distance to text should be applied to the 4 lines, not only the 2 first ones.

I think it's the way it should work ?

Also, the "Section/End-of-Story" mark is not positioned where it should be. 

[walt.farrell]

1 hour ago, laurent32 said:

"Indent here" was placed just before the "t" of "this" and the distance to text should be applied to the 4 lines, not only the 2 first ones.

I think it's the way it should work ?

I think you are seeing an interaction between Distance to Text in the Drop Caps section of the Paragraph panel, and Indent to Here.

You have caused the additional 3mm indenting after the drop cap by using Distance to Text, which applies just to the first two lines of text. Then the Indent to here applies to the remaining text in the paragraph.

So yes, that's the way it should work, in my opinion.

1 hour ago, laurent32 said:

Also, the "Section/End-of-Story" mark is not positioned where it should be.

I cannot reproduce that on 2.1.0.1730. What did you do to get the Section mark to lose the proper position? Can you reproduce that starting over from scratch?

[laurent32]

39 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

Then the Indent to here applies to the remaining text in the paragraph.

Since I placed the "Indent to here" before the "t" of "this" I expect the function to be applied from "this" to the end of the paragraph. To me, "indent to here" is applied AFTER "Drop caps". That is 2 different actions. Actually, I feel we are in a situation where the 2 functions are like melt together… To me, it is a strange behavior…

1 hour ago, walt.farrell said:

Can you reproduce that starting over from scratch?

Sorry, I'm not able to reproduce it, but here is the file with the "section mark" problem active :

test lettrines.afpub

If I hit return after "long" (make a paragraph) then the "section mark" goes where it should.

Before :

After :

 

[Andreas CH]

 

Setze hinter «long» einen Absatz und lösche ihn wieder. Nun sollte das Ende Zeichen richtig stehen.

Place un paragraphe après "long" et efface-le à nouveau. Le caractère de fin devrait maintenant être correct.

Put a paragraph after "long" and delete it again. Now the end character should be correct.

[walt.farrell]

5 minutes ago, laurent32 said:

Since I placed the "Indent to here" before the "t" of "this" I expect the function to be applied from "this" to the end of the paragraph. To me, "indent to here" is applied AFTER "Drop caps". That is 2 different actions.

The function is applied from "this" to the end of the paragraph. But the Drop Cap specification of "Distance to Text" is also applied to the first two lines, as you requested. Therefore, the first two lines (affected by Drop Cap settings) are indented further. If you don't want that, remove the extra indentation from your Drop Cap settings.

[laurent32]

Yes @Andreas CH it does.

The question is why (and how come) that "Section/End-of-Story" mark went "for a walk" ??!

[laurent32]

7 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

The function is applied from "this" to the end of the paragraph. But the Drop Cap specification of "Distance to Text" is also applied to the first two lines, as you requested.

I understand your point of view but I did it the other way around…

I first applied the "drop caps" and then I decided to use the "indent here", so I believe you can also understand my point of view : I applied an "indent to here" after a "drop caps"…

I already tried to return to 0 (Distance to text) but then I wasn't able to put some space between the 23 and the text as easily… ? 

[walt.farrell]

1 hour ago, laurent32 said:

I first applied the "drop caps" and then I decided to use the "indent here", so I believe you can also understand my point of view : I applied an "indent to here" after a "drop caps"…

Sorry, but no, I don't understand. Both will be applied, I think, and that's what you're seeing.

1 hour ago, laurent32 said:

I already tried to return to 0 (Distance to text) but then I wasn't able to put some space between the 23 and the text as easily… ? 

How about: Set the Drop Cap "Distance to Text" to 0. Then move the Indent to Here slightly further to the right. That way, you just use one of the available indentation functions, instead of trying to use both.

[Old Bruce]

All I have to add to this discussion is that there is something broken with multiple White Space spaces and Drop Caps. I haven't been able to figure out all the permutations other than things don't go right.

[Andreas CH]

Leider ist die Grösse der Initiale immer von der Anzahl der Zeilen abhängig.
Ich wünsche mir hier mehr Flexibilität bei den Einstellungen.
Zum Beispiel, dass die Höhe der Initiale unabhängig der Höhe für den einzurückenden Bereich eingestellt werden kann.

Mit einem Trick kann man das auch jetzt schon umsetzen.

• Erstelle ein Rechteck in der Höhe von 2 Zeilen

• Pinne das Rechteck an den Text
• Stelle den Textumbruch auf Quadratisch
• "Bis hier Einrücken" ist nicht nötig

·

 

 

 

 

Malheureusement, la taille de l'initiale dépend toujours du nombre de lignes.

Je souhaite ici plus de flexibilité dans les réglages.

Par exemple, que la hauteur de l'initiale puisse être réglée indépendamment de la hauteur de la zone à mettre en retrait.

 

 

Une astuce permet de réaliser cela dès maintenant.

• Crée un rectangle de la hauteur de 2 lignes.
• Épingle le rectangle sur le texte
• Règle la mise en forme du texte sur Carré

• "Retrait ici" n'est pas nécessaire

 

 

Unfortunately, the size of the initial always depends on the number of lines.

I would like to see more flexibility in the settings here.

For example, that the height of the initial can be set independently of the height of the area to be indented.

 

 

With a trick, this can already be done.

• Create a rectangle with the height of 2 lines.
• Pin the rectangle to the text
• Set the text wrap to square

• "Move in here" is not necessary

 

 

 

 

 

 

[laurent32]

14 hours ago, walt.farrell said:

Sorry, but no, I don't understand.

Imagine I set the "drop caps".

Then I decide to have the sentence in red.

Would you expect to only have the 2 first lines in red (half of the sentence) ?

14 hours ago, walt.farrell said:

Then move the Indent to Here slightly further to the right.

How would you do that ?

 

13 hours ago, Old Bruce said:

All I have to add to this discussion is that there is something broken with multiple White Space spaces and Drop Caps. I haven't been able to figure out all the permutations other than things don't go right.

I agree.

 

11 hours ago, Andreas CH said:

With a trick, this can already be done.

Thanks for the idea !

[stokerg]

Hi @laurent32,

The advice from @walt.farrell is correct.  

On 3/21/2023 at 1:38 PM, laurent32 said:

"Indent here" was placed just before the "t" of "this" and the distance to text should be applied to the 4 lines, not only the 2 first ones.

 

Nope.  You have the Dropcap set to 2 lines high, so the distance from text will only be applied to the first 2 lines, if your text goes over 2 lines, then any after line 2, won't be affected.  It's pretty much the same way Word does things.

As for the moving 'End of story mark' going walkabouts, it appears the character for 'End of story' has 30pt baseline set, which is causing this to happen.  Which appears to be by design from checking with QA, however I've tried replicating this from scratch and haven't been to.  So I'm not sure what the workflow is to trigger that to happen.

[walt.farrell]

On 3/22/2023 at 5:26 AM, laurent32 said:

Imagine I set the "drop caps".

Then I decide to have the sentence in red.

Would you expect to only have the 2 first lines in red (half of the sentence) ?

No, of course not. But that situation is not comparable to what we're discussing, because it doesn't involve Drop Caps, and the extra spacing options that Drop Caps provide.

On 3/22/2023 at 5:26 AM, laurent32 said:

 

On 3/21/2023 at 3:16 PM, walt.farrell said:

Then move the Indent to Here slightly further to the right.

How would you do that ?

Good question. I was forgetting that Indent to Here is a character, not a setting. However, given that it is a character, you could consider adding some thin spaces in front of it, in some combination of the sizes that are available for spaces.

And yes, that's a clumsy approach. As an alternative:

1. Insert the Indent to Here character immediately after the Drop Cap.
2. Put the cursor immediately after the Drop Cap.
3. Adjust via Text > Spacing > Loosen (Alt/Opt-Right) until it looks like you want.

In both of these, do not add extra space using the Drop Cap setting in the Paragraph panel; just leave it set to 0.

[laurent32]

23 hours ago, stokerg said:

Nope.  You have the Dropcap set to 2 lines high, so the distance from text will only be applied to the first 2 lines, if your text goes over 2 lines, then any after line 2, won't be affected.  It's pretty much the same way Word does things.

To make you understand what I am trying to explain, let me do it the other way around :

1/ I apply an "indent to here"… even with a red paragraph… no problem…

2/ Now I decide to use "drop cap"… and in this order again something bag is happening…

[Old Bruce]

I have to reiterate that there is something wrong with Drop Caps and White Space.

Having said that I do wonder why you want to use Indent to here instead of using a Tab and a left offset instead. Are you really okay with the following

The above was done with a Character Style that scaled the Dropcaps and has a Baseline offset. Also used the Indent to here.

indent to here.afpub

[laurent32]

15 minutes ago, Old Bruce said:

I have to reiterate that there is something wrong with Drop Caps and White Space.

That is also my point : there is obviously something wrong with the "drop cap".

16 minutes ago, Old Bruce said:

I do wonder why you want to use Indent to here

It is just that I very often use "indent to here".

18 minutes ago, Old Bruce said:

instead of using a Tab and a left offset instead

"Indent to here" is must faster to use then tabs where you have to do some specific tuning (for example to deal with the space).

When you insert "indent to here", boom, it's all there !

29 minutes ago, Old Bruce said:

The above was done with a Character Style that scaled the Dropcaps and has a Baseline offset. Also used the Indent to here.

That's another solution but I need more space after "9" and "10"…

For the devs, please take a look :

test lettrines copie.afpub

[Andreas CH]

Ich habe da etwas Interessantes entdeckt:
Wenn ich den Zeilenabstand ändere, stimmen zum Teil die Abstände. "Intend to here" springt jedoch zurück an die Zahl.

I have discovered something interesting:
When I change the line spacing, some of the spacing is correct. However, "Intend to here" jumps back to the number.

Initiale.wmv

[laurent32]

True @Andreas CH, interesting !

Waiting for the devs to take a look…

[walt.farrell]

2 hours ago, laurent32 said:

That's another solution but I need more space after "9" and "10"…

Did you try my suggestion above of using Indent to Here combined with Text > Spacing > Loosen?

[laurent32]

57 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

Did you try my suggestion above of using Indent to Here combined with Text > Spacing > Loosen?

Sorry for the late answer @walt.farrell => you win again !!!

That does it perfectly 👍