Color Balance adjustment - Shadow tonal range bug

[Dan C]

On 1/5/2023 at 12:52 PM, SrPx said:

This doesn't collide/give a problem with having there a custom profile generated by a color calibration software, right? Like those generated (indeed, often, for those of us who calibrate the monitors every now and then) by software like iProfiler or Eizo's ColorNavigator, using them with a colorimeter (i1 display pro) to calibrate the screens

It certainly shouldn't, as these custom profiles generated aren't 'virtual' profiles, which I believe is the cause of the issue here - though our developers will have to confirm this.

On 1/5/2023 at 12:52 PM, SrPx said:

I was wondering if Affinity needs solely a sRGB color profile there to operate fine, as this would be a problem (I have sRGB there, but also two other wider range custom profiles, all as "ICC" not "WCS".).

The following Spotlight article from James Ritson covers this well - https://affinityspotlight.com/article/display-colour-management-in-the-affinity-apps/

On 1/5/2023 at 12:52 PM, SrPx said:

Is Photo doing the internal operations in sRGB? (Gimp and PSP do this, actually)  I say it as I am basing my workflows (not photography, so no develop persona, neither RAWs) in Adobe RGB color profile. Surely is unrelated, but I noticed that the color panel (color studio), in the foreground and background color samples' circles,  in v1.x was like using sRGB or something very similar, for files that actually were using Adobe RGB profile and had much richer color, so. Adobe RGB has much more intense greens (among other tones) that can't be reached in sRGB, which can be easily checked in a monitor capable of this range (ie, RGB color 0,255,0 on canvas will look very different to the foreground sample in color panel, being that also 0,255,0 RGB color, in V1 ). In files that are Adobe RGB, and being my default Affinity settings also Adobe RGB. But thankfully, version 2.0.3 is using apparently a wider range color profile in the color panel's foreground/background sample circles. I don't know if it's now (in V2) using Adobe RGB, or just my monitor color profile, but in v2 the color panel sample color circles make justice to the Eizo monitor's wide range, and there's no difference (or almost) between the circle sample in color panel, and the 100% color in the canvas (ie, filing a marquee with the tone)

I'm not au fait with the internal colour management of Affinity, as I understand it I don't believe internal operations to be limited to sRGB - however I can confirm that the UI within Affinity will change based on the monitor colour profile, so assigning an Adobe RGB colour profile to your monitor will change how the colours are displayed in the Colour Studio UI etc. This is the reason that incorrect/corrupted colour profiles can cause White in the Colour Studio to appear Yellow, as the profile is used for the UI output.

I hope this clears things up

[SrPx]

Thank  you very much, Dan. Yes this clarifies a lot, and I will read that article that you linked, I think it's going to help quite.   

[super_average_gunpla]

Good morning Dan C,

It appears the error is persistent using the sRGB IEC61966-2.1 color profile with OpenCL enabled. The weird thing is the error only seems to effect the Shadows tonal range. I've attached my file for review.

Regards

20230107_COLOR_BALANCE_ERROR_FILE.afphoto

[Dan C]

Thanks for your file provided @super_average_gunpla - I've opened this document here and it's display correctly for me, until I set the display profile in Windows to the Virtual profile.

Can you please open Windows Run (Windows Key + R) then paste the following string and press OK:

colorcpl

Then provide a screenshot of your settings here for me?

Many thanks once again!

[super_average_gunpla]

17 hours ago, Dan C said:

 

 

Can you please open Windows Run (Windows Key + R) then paste the following string and press OK:

colorcpl

Then provide a screenshot of your settings here for me?

Many thanks once again!

No problem, please see attached.

[Dan C]

Thanks for providing that for me - I've just tested with the same setup here and I'm seeing this issue also, even with the profile not set to 'default', if it is simply listed in this dialog then the application displays incorrectly.

I'll be sure to update our devs with this information, but in the meantime selecting this profile and choosing 'Remove' (this only removes it from the list, the profile remains on your PC) should stop this from happening
(Note you may need to restart the PC after removing the profile from the list for this to take effect)

[Rene B]

Hey all, hey @Dan C

I have the same issue. Whenever I try to use the color balance adjustment layer to set negative values for shadow colors (i.e. cyan, magenta, yellow) I get strange color overlays even with only -1%. If I lower all three shadow sliders -1% the image turns black.

I have a NVIDIA RTX 3070 and tried it with latest Studio OR GameReady driver (tried both in version 528.49) on up-to-date Windows 10 and every combination produces this error.

Only "fix" is to disable OpenCL acceleration, but honestly I got this GPU for exactly this acceleration, so this is no solution.

I tried the color profile "hack" (my list was empty), but even with the sRGB ICC profile, it did not do the trick.

Any updates on a fix or other solutions?

I love AP 2 and use it every day for my RAW edits, so I really want this to be fixed.

Thanks,

René

[Sonny Sonny]

@Rene B Try this method if you want the Color Balance works well with latest Nvidia driver:

1. Clean uninstall the driver, restart PC.

2. Download the old driver: version 517.40 and install.

3. Restart PC then use Geforce Experience to update the driver.

So if version 517.40 works fine to you. Just stay with it, don't update and don't forget to turn off "auto update" on Geforce Experience settings.

[Rene B]

@Sonny Sonny thanks for replying, but this doesn't sound like a real solution to me, I want my drivers to be up-to-date

Is this an issue Nvidia or Serif has to fix?

[Sonny Sonny]

11 minutes ago, Rene B said:

@Sonny Sonny thanks for replying, but this doesn't sound like a real solution to me, I want my drivers to be up-to-date

Is this an issue Nvidia or Serif has to fix?

My solution is helping you fix the color Balance and still using latest driver. Because I did it and it worked fine.

The last step "Keeping version 517.40" is just an optional.

[Dan C]

Hi @Rene B,

Welcome to the Affinity Forums

10 hours ago, Rene B said:

Is this an issue Nvidia or Serif has to fix?

As this is only occurring with specific Nvidia drivers, it indicates an issue with the driver itself, rather than the Affinity app.

Are you able to provide an .afphoto document that shows this issue on your system, so that I can investigate further here?

On 2/26/2023 at 1:15 PM, Rene B said:

I tried the color profile "hack" (my list was empty), but even with the sRGB ICC profile, it did not do the trick.

If you have multiple monitors, please ensure this profile is in use for each of them, as setting this option in Windows only affects 1 monitor and it's certainly possible that if the profile is not set for a second monitor, you may still experience this on your main monitor.

[Rene B]

12 hours ago, Sonny Sonny said:

My solution is helping you fix the color Balance and still using latest driver. Because I did it and it worked fine.

The last step "Keeping version 517.40" is just an optional.

Thanks, I just got it wrong. I did it a bit different but it worked with your general approach. I hate Geforce Experience you know

1 hour ago, Dan C said:

Hi @Rene B,

Welcome to the Affinity Forums

As this is only occurring with specific Nvidia drivers, it indicates an issue with the driver itself, rather than the Affinity app.

Are you able to provide an .afphoto document that shows this issue on your system, so that I can investigate further here?

If you have multiple monitors, please ensure this profile is in use for each of them, as setting this option in Windows only affects 1 monitor and it's certainly possible that if the profile is not set for a second monitor, you may still experience this on your main monitor.

Thanks and yes I can confirm, Affinity is definitely not the problem here 😍. It is an Nvidia driver issue.

I fixed it with those steps:

1. Set the sRGB ICC profile for all monitors (did not help, but might be part of the solution)
2. Uninstall all Nvidia products using "Apps & Features"
3. Restart PC
4. Download "517.40-desktop-win10-win11-64bit-international-nsd-dch-whql" and do a "Custom" driver only install and check "Perform clean driver installation"
5. Download "522.30-desktop-win10-win11-64bit-international-nsd-dch-whql" and do an "Express" driver only install
6. Download "528.49-desktop-win10-win11-64bit-international-nsd-dch-whql" and do an "Express" driver only install
7. Configure everything in "NVIDIA settings" (like resolution, bit depth, DSR etc.)
8. Start Affinity with OpenCL enabled and latest drivers
9. Enjoy

This endured a full restart, so I think that is it.

MANY thanks for the kindness and the quick help. I really enjoy this great product

[Dan C]

I'm very glad to hear this, many thanks for letting me know and for your kind feedback - it's certainly appreciated

[Sonny Sonny]

This bug is back with Photo Beta 2.1.0.1714. I'm running both beta and stable version and ver 2.0.4 stable works fine. So weird.

I'm using: latest Nvidia Studio Driver.

P/s: I don't create new thread in Beta forum because I don't want any double topic about this bug.

[Dan C]

I'm sorry to hear this @Sonny Sonny, as this is only occurring in the beta version, we ask that you create a new thread in the relevant section (linked below) so that the correct team can investigate this further -

https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/forum/139-other-new-bugs-and-issues-in-the-betas/

Many thanks in advance

[Nicolas.yax]

Hello,

Just for information, putting "sRGB IEC61966- 2.1" ALONE in the "color management" page does not solve the problem.

See image below :



I'm not sure if this issue is unique to Nvidia, as I also use photoshop and other image editing software and don't experience this issue.
It is in my opinion rather a problem of conflict between Nvidia and Affinity photo.

[Dan C]

I'm sorry to hear this @Nicolas.yax - have you tried the steps listed above from Rene?

[Nicolas.yax]

1 hour ago, Dan C said:

Je suis désolé d'entendre ça@Nicolas.yax - avez-vous essayé les étapes énumérées ci-dessus de René ?

Hello Dan,

Thanks for your feedback, i appreciate your responsiveness

In the steps listed by rené, it talks about removing Nvidia apps from the pc initially.
However, I need to keep Gforce Xperience installed on my PC for other useful functions.

The second thing that bothers me is having to use "the sRGB profile in the color management of windows. This colorimetric profile is much more restricted than what my screen allows me to display.

I will wait for a real solution, especially since the Beta version of Affinity Photo is again impacted despite all the steps proposed by René. The problem therefore comes from a conflict between Nvidia and Affinity, I believe that it must be resolved at this level.

[Sonny Sonny]

I just discovered that when I installed 2.0.4 MSI.exe version => This bug is back. But not with 2.0.4 MSIX version.

[Dan C]

On 3/3/2023 at 7:14 PM, Nicolas.yax said:

In the steps listed by rené, it talks about removing Nvidia apps from the pc initially.
However, I need to keep Gforce Xperience installed on my PC for other useful functions.

The uninstallation is only a temporary measure to ensure you are starting from a 'clean slate' driver-wise, you can reinstall Geforce Experience with the latest driver meaning this should still be available after updating your drivers.

On 3/3/2023 at 7:14 PM, Nicolas.yax said:

The second thing that bothers me is having to use "the sRGB profile in the color management of windows. This colorimetric profile is much more restricted than what my screen allows me to display.

This shouldn't be a necessity, as the original report was using a 'Virtual' profile, therefore I recommended changing this to the standard sRGB profile.

If you have a monitor that uses it's own colour profile or supports a wider colour gamut, I'd recommend checking our the following article regarding colour management in Affinity -

https://affinityspotlight.com/article/display-colour-management-in-the-affinity-apps/

[Dan C]

On 3/4/2023 at 8:04 AM, Sonny Sonny said:

I just discovered that when I installed 2.0.4 MSI.exe version => This bug is back. But not with 2.0.4 MSIX version.

Thanks for the update Sonny and I'm sorry to hear this - I have uninstalled the MSIX version and installed the EXE version of Affinity Photo 2.0.4, hardware acceleration enabled, using Nvidia 528.49 with no specific colour profile applied through Windows Display settings and I'm not seeing this issue with either file that super_average_gunpla has provided in this thread - 

Therefore this still appears to be a driver conflict occurring on your PC, and not a bug within the Affinity app specifically.

[Sonny Sonny]

Yeah @Dan C, thanks.

When ever I got this issue, I just repeat my method that I mentioned above:

- Un-install driver

- Download and Install the old driver (version 517.40)

- Restart and install the latest driver

- Restart and boom, the issue is gone!

That's weird but this method works for both MSIX and MSI (V2 stable and beta). My color balance works fine after that.

I think the new Nvidia driver has something wrong with OpenCL algorithm. I'm gonna share this method to my channel until the nvidia driver issue was solved completely I guess.

[cgidesign]

@Dan C can be so kind to cross check a detail regarding the monitor ICC profiles?

Somewhere in the manual I read that Affinity apps read the icc profiles from the system part of Windows color management.

In the all screen shots shown in this thread I see the user part.

An issue in Windows is, that system and user can show different ICC profiles:

I showed this in the below thread.

 

Can you let us know where exactly Affinity is looking for ICC profiles?

In my case I was able to solve ICC profile related color issues when I disable "user / my settings" and set monitor profiles in the system settings; or take care that system settings and user settings have the same profiles set. But maybe this was just coincidence?

[Dan C]

On 3/11/2023 at 7:12 AM, cgidesign said:

Can you let us know where exactly Affinity is looking for ICC profiles?

For ICC profiles that can be applied to a document within Affinity or used when exporting, we use the profiles that are installed here - 

C:\Windows\System32\spool\drivers\color

This is also the location that Windows will install profiles into, when installing through the Colour Management Windows dialog.

 

For the ICC profile that is applied to the monitor, used for document-to-screen colour profile conversion that Affinity calculates, we use the profile applied in the 'Devices' tab in the Colour Management dialog.

I hope this clears things up!

[cgidesign]

19 hours ago, Dan C said:

we use the profile applied in the 'Devices' tab

Thanks for the reply but it is covering only part of the question:

Like explained in the other post, the Windows color management has two main options:

1. Settings for currently logged on user.

2. System settings.

When you open the color management in Windows you are presented with the "user settings":

 

In this dialogue you can switch to the system settings:

 

The profiles here can differ from those in user settings:

 

Why I am asking:

In Windows it often happens that Windows changes the profiles in the user settings. To my experience this happens e.g. when using a notebook that sometimes has an external monitor attached and sometimes not. In that case it happens that in the end you have the notebook-display ICC profile assigned to the external monitor etc.

I had various color display issues with the Affinity apps because of this missmatch. But once I either switched off "use my settings" or took care that user settings and system settings have the same profiles assigned, those issues went away.

Just to know what's going on, I like to know if the apps are:

A. reading the profiles from "user settings" when "use my settings" is on

B. reading the profiles from "system settings" when "use my settings" is off

C. always reading the profiles from "system settings" but ignoring the user settings.