Edited TIFF files are much larger on V2 than they were on V1

[RobW42]

In V1.10, I edit a 45Mb TIFF file, merge visible, delete all other layers then save.  This yields a 55Mb TIFF file.

Using a similar process in V2.0.0 yields a 162Mb file!

One difference in the dialogue is that I see is that V2 doesn't simply save as V1 did but gives a message saying the document has non-pixel elements and gives an option to save as TIFF with affinity layers or as an AFPHOTO file.

Save history with document is disabled.

Any suggestions as to what these new 'non-pixel' elements that are present in V2 but not in V1?  More importantly, how can I get rid of them?

For now, I have reverted back to using V1.10

 

[walt.farrell]

There are other reports of there being a problem editing a TIFF file and then Saving it.

The reason your file is so big is probably because you chose the "Save with Affinity Layers" option, effectively gives you a TIFF that contains a .afphoto file. For now, I recommend using File > Export rather than Save, until this problem is fixed.

[David in Яuislip]

I developed the same raw file in V1 & V2, added a few random shapes, added some text, merge visible, delete all other layers then export to 8bit uncompressed tiffs. File sizes identical

As a wild guess I would suggest saving your fiile as an aphoto, close it, reopen and export from there

[RobW42]

Thank you Walt and David for the suggestions for exporting rather than saving.  
I’m glad to hear that others are seeing similar problems as that makes me happy that I’m not missing something obvious and that it is a problem that will, hopefully, soon be resolved.

I’m opening each of my photos from within Lightroom (V6.14) to do some very simple edits.  Whilst exporting is certainly a workaround for the file size problem it’s a little tedious to go through the extra export steps and then get Lightroom to update its preview.  For the edits I’m currently performing (small amounts of inpainting), V2 offers no advantage over V1 so I can simply use V1 until the problem has been resolved.

[David in Яuislip]

Aha, I had no idea you were roundtripping with Lightroom, I wonder if LR is using compression which is what stuffs APhoto2?

Round 2, I saved the tiff file as LZW compressed with APhoto2
Opened it, painted a squiggle, <ctrl>S and got the dreaded warning

Saved with layers
Opened it, only one layer

Uncompresssed    60092 KB
LZW                22518 - Tiff comp. 8, Adobe Deflate
With 'layers'    95748 - Tiff comp. 5, LZW

19 days trial left, there's no chance of me buying after this and the msix debacle

[walt.farrell]

20 minutes ago, David in Яuislip said:

and got the dreaded warning

I think that always happens in V2, when you Open a TIFF file and try to Save it, rather than Exporting.

[David in Яuislip]

8 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

I think that always happens in V2, when you Open a TIFF file and try to Save it, rather than Exporting.

You are quite right, opened an uncompressed tiff, no squiggle, <ctrl>S, error message, file jumps to 129500 KB

What a farce

[RS1250]

This is also happening to me. I’ll use V1 until V2 gets fixed (I hope it happens soon). 

[RobW42]

Unfortunately, the new Photo V2 Beta (2.0.3.1670) still has this file size problem.  It's rather frustrating to have bought V2 but not be able to make practical use of it in my workflow.

[walt.farrell]

2 hours ago, RobW42 said:

Unfortunately, the new Photo V2 Beta (2.0.3.1670) still has this file size problem.  It's rather frustrating to have bought V2 but not be able to make practical use of it in my workflow.

You can't just switch to using File > Export rather than File > Save?

[RobW42]

2 hours ago, walt.farrell said:

You can't just switch to using File > Export rather than File > Save?

Hi Walt, I could indeed work around the problem by using Export but, to be honest, it’s rather a nuisance. Export won’t, by default, open the same file location as the original file from Lightroom.  I’ve been caught out by this a few times and ended up saving to the wrong location leaving me wondering why my edits haven’t shown up in Lightroom.

I could use lightroom to ‘show in explorer’,  navigate to that folder in the export dialogue, export then quit without saving but it rather breaks the fluid workflow achieved with V1 where I simply quit then save and the modified file replaces the original.
 

If there is a feature in V2 that I absolutely need then I’ll go through the hassle.  If not, I’ll simply stay with V1 until the problem is resolved.

One might question why I’m so concerned about these overly large files when disk storage is quite cheap. The answer there is that my NAS, where my photos reside, doesn’t have a huge capacity nor does my cloud backup account.  On top of that, I don’t have the luxury of super fast broadband internet so my uploads from NAS to cloud are painfully slow.  Larger files will exacerbate that pain.

[RobW42]

V2.0.3, Sadly even this version saves ridiculously large files.  My 57Mb TIFF file becomes 200Mb after going through AP2.

It still insists on only giving the option to save as TIFF with layers on a round trip from Lightroom - even when I have deleted all layers! 

It is quite disappointing that files, in V2, are unnecessarily bloated in this way.

 

[walt.farrell]

1 hour ago, RobW42 said:

V2.0.3, Sadly even this version saves ridiculously large files.  My 57Mb TIFF file becomes 200Mb after going through AP2.

It still insists on only giving the option to save as TIFF with layers on a round trip from Lightroom - even when I have deleted all layers! 

It is quite disappointing that files, in V2, are unnecessarily bloated in this way.

 

It is saving with Affinity Layers, which gives you effectively a TIFF containing a .afphoto file.

You should use Export, rather than Save, until this is fixed.

[RobW42]

24 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

It is saving with Affinity Layers, which gives you effectively a TIFF containing a .afphoto file.

You should use Export, rather than Save, until this is fixed.

Yes, as I mentioned previously, that is indeed a workaround though it is inconvenient and something that gets in the way of my workflow. 

If Export would default its destination folder to that of the source file then it wouldn't be as much of a hassle.  Unfortunately, it doesn't.

I would much prefer Affinity Photo helps my workflow rather than hindering it.  For now, I shall continue with V1.

As to whether or not it will get 'fixed' is anybody's guess.  It may be that Serif have decided this is the way they want to continue.  All that is needed in the dialogue is an option to save without 'non-pixel' layers.

[RobW42]

Sadly, V2.0.4 still does not provide the option to save without layers when round trip editing from something like Lightroom.  This is one of the few things I find disappointing with AP V2 but it is definitely sufficiently frustrating to keep me on V1.

[walt.farrell]

10 minutes ago, RobW42 said:

Sadly, V2.0.4 still does not provide the option to save without layers when round trip editing from something like Lightroom.  This is one of the few things I find disappointing with AP V2 but it is definitely sufficiently frustrating to keep me on V1.

2.0.4 was a very limited release to solve a few very high priority issues. The next beta release should have many more fixes.

[RobW42]

We each have our own idea of what constitutes a very high priority issue.  Unnecessarily quadrupling the size of a file appears to be quite a big problem to me.

I await the next release with bated breath.  For now, I shall remain a hopeful user of V1.

[NathanC]

Hey @RobW42,

Since it does look like this is being caused by the app forcing you to save the TIFF with Affinity layers resulting in the file size increase, i'm trying to identify at what point/why it is doing this in comparison to V1, particularly if you're following the same workflow on both apps.

Could you perhaps provide me with an example of an edit/change (Even if it was later removed/Merged) you've done after passing an image from LR to V2 which forces you to save with Affinity Layers which V1 isn't?

I can see there has been an issue logged previously which relates to adding and applying Non-Live filter layers to tiffs and then saving causing the prompt when it shouldn't, however from what I've checked in 2.0.4 this should no longer be the case.

[RobW42]

Hi @NathanC,

Using Windows 11.

From Lightroom (V6.14), I 'edit in' Affinity Photo V2.0.4.  The Lightroom parameters are TIFF, ProPhoto RGB,   16bit/Component, No Compression.

AP2 is launched from LR using a .bat file  (start /b affinityphoto2.exe %1)

Any edit will demonstrate my problem.  For example, select in-painting, click on canvas, close by clicking 'x'/close window.

AP2 prompts to save edits then pops up a message saying 'The document contains non-pixel elements would you like to save as a TIFF with Affinity layers or as a new document'.  Selecting 'with layers' yields large file.  Selecting 'new document' only presents the option to save as .afphoto or .aftemplate.

[NathanC]

12 minutes ago, RobW42 said:

Using Windows 11.

From Lightroom (V6.14), I 'edit in' Affinity Photo V2.0.4.  The Lightroom parameters are TIFF, ProPhoto RGB,   16bit/Component, No Compression.

AP2 is launched from LR using a .bat file  (start /b affinityphoto2.exe %1)

Any edit will demonstrate my problem.  For example, select in-painting, click on canvas, close by clicking 'x'/close window.

AP2 prompts to save edits then pops up a message saying 'The document contains non-pixel elements would you like to save as a TIFF with Affinity layers or as a new document'.  Selecting 'with layers' yields large file.  Selecting 'new document' only presents the option to save as .afphoto or .aftemplate.

Many thanks for the additional detail, I had originally been trying to replicate this on Mac which is handling this a lot better when saving the file and not prompting . I've replicated this and bumped the existing issue that's logged with the developers with the details of your report, many thanks

[RobW42]

Hi @NathanCI've just checked with the latest beta and, unfortunately, this problem still exists.  It seems that this isn't going to be on the final list for fixes for V2.1 so I'll continue using V1.10 and await V2.2.

 

[NathanC]

Hi @RobW42,

I've just attempted to replicate this issue on 2.0.4 again to compare the .MSI and the .MSIX version of the apps, unusually I can't replicate this problem on the .MSI version of the app, it only appears to happen if using the .MSIX version, I'll get this issue updated internally to reflect this.

If you haven't got it already, try uninstalling your current app(s) and then install .MSI version of each and then try this again, I have linked the FAQ below which details how to find and install via the .MSI/EXE.

 

[Patrick Connor]

@RobW42, @RS1250 and @David in Яuislip and other readers of this thread, I was surprised by Nathan's suggestion so I looked into it and it seems this is caused by an uninitialised variable, that creates a channel called "Unassociated Alpha". So being an uninitialised bit of memory, it happens to work sometimes and not others. So unfortunately it is not possible to say definitively that the EXE will work where the MSIX did not, so I would not recommend this solution.

WORKAROUND

Open the TIFF and look in the Channels panel. When the bug happens you will have a channel called "Unassociated Alpha" at the bottom of your list. Delete that channel, which was not in your source file. You can then save without "the dreaded warning prompt", and the file size should remain similar, as in V1

[RobW42]

@Patrick Connor thank you for the workaround.  That does indeed remove my frustration.  Much appreciated.

[Affinity Info Bot]

The issue "Non Live Filters are prompting the app to ask if the user wants to save a TIFF with layers or flattened" (REF: AFP-5635) has been fixed by the developers in internal build "2.1.0.1742".
This fix should soon be available as a customer beta and is planned for inclusion in the next customer release.
Customer beta builds are announced here and you can participate by following these instructions.
If you still experience this problem once you are using that build version (or later) please reply to this thread including @Serif Info Bot to notify us.