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Affinity Photo is fantastic but still cumbersome to use on basic level


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I know this has been brought up since the very first beta and it is sad to see that no real progress has been made now over a long time. when you work hours, weeks retouching images as i do it is total frustrating that tool settings are still not sticky.  the same is true for filters and raw develop settings. another issue for me are macros which still do not offer equal functionality as actions in ps.  i really hope this fields which negatively impact work experience for user doing commercial retouching get some attention.

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On 2/6/2021 at 10:52 AM, csp said:

I know this has been brought up since the very first beta and it is sad to see that no real progress has been made now over a long time. when you work hours, weeks retouching images as i do it is total frustrating that tool settings are still not sticky.  the same is true for filters and raw develop settings. another issue for me are macros which still do not offer equal functionality as actions in ps.  i really hope this fields which negatively impact work experience for user doing commercial retouching get some attention.

Indeed. The most clever career move I made - out of pure interest - was to focus on optimizing workflows. Whatever workflow. My pay check reflects this. The most important thing involved in optimizing workflows is involving those... involved. Done right it can be a peaceful process that in the end makes people work faster with fewer annoyances and it simply generates happier more participating co-workers. It is an ever ongoing proces that requires some effort but is much more rewarding. It is simply part of work life and what professional companies do. I love working worth it because when we succeed - we can focus more on complex issues or tasks. In the end we just make better high-quality products this way. This is why I adore SCRUM retrospective in IT-companies as well.

Doing things the wrong way again and again ... well, do I need to explain who would do that and what's wrong with it.

That Serif has so little focus on user friendly, fluid and optimized workflows in especially Photo amazes me without end. And I can't honestly believe they are truly targeting professionals with their heavy use of the term professional in their marketing. That is just a strategy for selling software to the crowd. They have their eyes fixed on a lucrative segment of the market not really served by Adobe or Corel. Probably a clever move for Serif. If they intend to serve the professional segment then these workflow issues must be addressed and ironed out. It will require a lot of effort. And... it must involve true professionals.

It is some of the most rewarding and interesting work there is - so I will never understand anyone who skips it. 

  • "The user interface is supposed to work for me - I am not supposed to work for the user interface."
  • Computer-, operating system- and software agnostic; I am a result oriented professional. Look for a fanboy somewhere else.
  • “When a wise man points at the moon the imbecile examines the finger.” ― Confucius
  • Not an Affinity user og forum user anymore. The software continued to disappoint and not deliver.
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hi jowday,

fully agree ! 

I think the core issue is that the developers don’t understand or ignore the need that for some user working on more than one image at the same time is important.  so with no surprise there is not even an elegant way to display more than one image, not to talk about the option to apply the last used adjustments settings as in PS but the most crazy thing for me  is that the warp tool starts with bilinear instead of bicubic. all this is a clear indicator that they do not listen or talk to professional user or see them as an important audience and I think this is sad because AP does a lot of things much better than adobe. 

 
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1 hour ago, csp said:

hi jowday,

fully agree ! 

I think the core issue is that the developers don’t understand or ignore the need that for some user working on more than one image at the same time is important.  so with no surprise there is not even an elegant way to display more than one image, not to talk about the option to apply the last used adjustments settings as in PS but the most crazy thing for me  is that the warp tool starts with bilinear instead of bicubic. all this is a clear indicator that they do not listen or talk to professional user or see them as an important audience and I think this is sad because AP does a lot of things much better than adobe. 

Yep - Serif won't realize a lot of the potential in Affinity - and they already miss the mark for professionals.

Developers are not supposed to make decisions about how the software looks and how workflows should work. If they do it is so 1990. And a huge mistake. This is what user experience designers and such specialists do. They involve users and professionals. They "own" the user interface with the responsibility for it. That is how professional companies work now - 30 years from 1990. Layers of specialists working closely together with deep respect for each others specialty.

Take it from one who knows it: it is just so rewarding and fascinating to work together that way - to see the product grow, mature and shine with the help of experts in each field. I am at a loss to understand why Serif insists on working like companies did 25 years ago. It is a fascinating to read about how Google solved the ui issues in a gigantic company - Apple and Microsoft kind of did it too - a microscopic company like Serif could do it without internal battles.

But the decision must come from above. Leadership. The absolute top.

Otherwise we will drown in posts with people begging for usability fixes of this and that for years and:

“When a wise man points at the moon the imbecile examines the finger.”

   ― Confucius

  • "The user interface is supposed to work for me - I am not supposed to work for the user interface."
  • Computer-, operating system- and software agnostic; I am a result oriented professional. Look for a fanboy somewhere else.
  • “When a wise man points at the moon the imbecile examines the finger.” ― Confucius
  • Not an Affinity user og forum user anymore. The software continued to disappoint and not deliver.
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....maybe i simply make the wrong assumption that AP is targeted at photographers and retoucher working with real images when it fact it is the new painter & illustrator. looking at how they promote it, what features are added and what user post indicates this. 

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45 minutes ago, csp said:

.... maybe i simply make the wrong assumption that AP is targeted at photographers and retoucher working with real images when it fact it is the new painter & illustrator. looking at how they promote it, what features are added and what user post indicates this. 

I don't know. They do add features to it that are for photographers with ambitions. The RAW editor for example and ON PAPER the product has some pretty impressive features. They are just not tied together professionally. IN REALITY the product is hard and clumsy to use and it is pretty old school. I can't imagine professionals choosing such a workflow killer. A damn shame. The features are there! It is like someone is throwing features into the box - blindfolded.

Old school photo editing for personal use will probably die within not too long. I have met quite a few hobby photographers that use iPad apps instead of the hard and slow programs on desktop computers. And no they do not use Photo for iPad. They use apps with ridiculously easy workflows and features. It makes them happy and no salespeople can talk them into more.

  • "The user interface is supposed to work for me - I am not supposed to work for the user interface."
  • Computer-, operating system- and software agnostic; I am a result oriented professional. Look for a fanboy somewhere else.
  • “When a wise man points at the moon the imbecile examines the finger.” ― Confucius
  • Not an Affinity user og forum user anymore. The software continued to disappoint and not deliver.
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I am a Nikon user and for years I have been using and still do Nikon Capture NX2 to process my Raw images from my D70, D300 and D610 cameras. Although its features are limited it does have a spot removing feature and the wonderful u-points for dodging and burning . Nikon NXD has the same 2 features plus more but it is slow and not that user friendly.

To process my Z6 images I use the Capture 1 Express for Nikon which is FREE. It has a lot of the same features the Affinity has. If need be I can edit an image from this software into NX2 and use the spot remover and u-point feature. It only takes seconds to open up a raw image into this software but when I use Affinity I am told to use the Develop persona first and then develop into Photo persona which takes about 30 secs WHY???. The only difference I can see between both personas is the clipping tool in Develop so why can't both personas be combined?  If NX2 and Capture 1 can process a raw image in one step why can't Affinity?.

Right now the only reason I use Affinity is for their focus stacking and making panoramas. If they were to speed up the raw processing then I might go back and use it. 

Affinity and Serif...Nikon Capture 1 Express  is better and faster than you for and it is FREE    

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22 hours ago, Jowday said:

I have met quite a few hobby photographers that use iPad apps instead of the hard and slow programs on desktop computers. And no they do not use Photo for iPad. They use apps with ridiculously easy workflows and features. It makes them happy and no salespeople can talk them into more.

This reminds me of when I first got into desktop publishing using early model Macs while all the 'professionals' insisted on cutting rubylith, burnishing Letraset and running photostats, or when I first started using a digital camera (in 1997—it admittedly was a bit sh!t) and 'professionals' laughed at the quality, while ignoring the convenience. Or when Illustrator was first released, but my boss insisted that I write PostScript by hand because it would rip faster on the image setter. But all of these things allowed me to not only work in new ways, but also to 'think differently'. Overused Apple strap-line aside, these new technologies changed the way generations viewed themselves in the world, and empowered us to explore new ideas in ways that wouldn't have been possible using the old technology. For me, watching what folks are choosing to create on their mobile devices today is completely transformative—and the arguments as to whether it's deemed 'professional' or not is largely a moot point—in the same way that the original Mac, Illustrator and digital cameras were first deemed to be toys—it's what people ultimately do with the tools that matters.

Now, I totally agree that Serif has some real work to do (Adobe's newer iPad apps are surprisingly good and iterating quickly, and Procreate is quickly becoming a standard for digital painting) as it's interfaces and workflows feel rather dated and rooted in the desktop world of 20+ years ago (even on the iPad). As @Jowday mentioned, many of the features are already there but are hidden behind an awkwardly poor user experience. It's all very 'pretty', but I swear the design team has never heard of Fitt's Law or Gestalt principles. Panels and menu options aren't where I'd expect them to be (or are hidden in some other unrelated menu or a tucked away button), tools and modifiers have obscure icons which provide no indication of the functionality they provide, and one must commit to memory countless panels (studios?!) in order to find anything. If you look at Procreate, Pixelmator, or what Adobe is doing with it's iPad apps (and bringing those ideas back to the desktop) they are taking the opportunity to rethink our interactions and remove unnecessary interfaces and workflows (the new pattern/grid tool in Illustrator). And don't even get me started on the annoyingly frustrating 'modes' (Personas) which always leave me scrambling to find the tools I'm looking for, only to realize that I again need to switch modes.

I really enjoying using the Affinity apps where I can, but between the feature gaps, bugs and hair pulling user experience issues I don't use them nearly as much as I'd like.

iPads and mobile devices will be a part of our futures, as will laptop (and desktop) computers. The applications we use on all of these platforms will change largely through the evolution and disruption of our mental models from newer technology (mobile/tablet/AR/wearables/cloud/streaming/AI/etc). Both Microsoft and Adobe have realized there is only so long they can continue trying to pass off their legacy software as relevant, and have already begun migrating some of their products accordingly (or creating new ones). But increasingly users and organizations are already moving towards modern alternatives, apps and services that better align with the ideas and mental models we have today. Browsers/JavaScript, iPhones/iPads, AWS, Salesforce, Google Docs, Github, Procreate, Slack, Figma, Instagram, Twitter, etc. were all originally written off as 'toys' - yet here we are a few years down the line and these toys are now deemed essential to many folks (professional and non-professional) and organizations.

Hopefully, Serif have learned a little from the 1.x versions and are looking to 'think different' for the 2.x versions - especially as the competition appears to be finally waking up.

 

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2 hours ago, Bryan Rieger said:

cutting rubylith

Thank you for that! Just a few weeks ago I desperately tried to recall what the name of this film was. Actually we used to call it "Ulanofolie" in our Swiss German designer slang, but you brought me on the right track nonetheless.
I still have a bunch of them buried somewhere in my studio…

MacBookAir 15": MacOS Ventura > Affinity v1, v2, v2 beta // MacBookPro 15" mid-2012: MacOS El Capitan > Affinity v1 / MacOS Catalina > Affinity v1, v2, v2 beta // iPad 8th: iPadOS 16 > Affinity v2

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almost all new imaging software today is a more or less a copy from an existing concepts with interfaces without style and bad design and speaking about old times 30 years old "livepicture"  (http://lensgarden.com/uncategorized/live-picture-software-that-was-way-ahead-of-its-time/ ) comes to my mind a revolutionary software with an resolution independent concept, still unmatched in some points and how great this software would work on our mobile devices today .  seems younger software developer are not only unaware of the past but are also blocked to think outside the box not able to develop new exciting ideas. now imagine what we could do with an a iPad version of livepicture........

 

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39 minutes ago, csp said:

almost all new imaging software today is a more or less a copy from an existing concepts with interfaces without style and bad design

Well don't forget that nowadays OS systems mostly dictate the look  & styles of an apps UI much more than in the pasts (they have their design & style guides/rules to follow), they want apps to have an OS related unique corparate l&f. Their system libraries and GUI builders already provide those l&f UI elements, so people don't reinvent the (different looking) wheel and keep to be conform to their requirements and specifications. - If you don't follow these (their) rules, there are chances that your apps are then not accepted for being distributed through their corporate store markets and the like, due to the fact that they don't follow their defined UI style guides.

52 minutes ago, csp said:

...and speaking about old times 30 years old...

NeXTstep/OpenStep was one of the best here in many aspects and would still be from UI usability and it's overall quick and flexible turnarounds capabilities, much better than nowadays OS UIs.

☛ Affinity Designer 1.10.8 ◆ Affinity Photo 1.10.8 ◆ Affinity Publisher 1.10.8 ◆ OSX El Capitan
☛ Affinity V2.3 apps ◆ MacOS Sonoma 14.2 ◆ iPad OS 17.2

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5 minutes ago, csp said:

...todays imaging software also resamples a supermarket, endless aisle cramped with stuff you never need...

... or important things are missing that are simply not on the shelves!

☛ Affinity Designer 1.10.8 ◆ Affinity Photo 1.10.8 ◆ Affinity Publisher 1.10.8 ◆ OSX El Capitan
☛ Affinity V2.3 apps ◆ MacOS Sonoma 14.2 ◆ iPad OS 17.2

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