garrettm30 Posted April 7, 2020 Posted April 7, 2020 After fighting with the master pages for the last half hour, it is my opinion that the master pages handling on spreads is not sorted out. I think I have distilled it down to at least one aspect of the problem (whether there are others, I am not sure, but I will here try to focus on the one). When you create a master page that is a spread, but then you apply it to only one page of a spread, the other page (without the master applied) still has phantom frames that would have gone there if it did have the master. I have attached a simple file to demonstrate. Is this intended? Could it be improved? master pages.afpub Quote
thomaso Posted April 7, 2020 Posted April 7, 2020 (edited) Do I understand right that you observed this occurrence without experiencing an actual bug? Note that a spread master can't be selected in the masters pages panel as single either left or right only: As soon you click one half of its page icon the entire spread gets selected, whereas on document pages you may select either left or right, or both. There is also another, similar unexpected, behavior which might confuse users: If you have a spread master applied to a spread of document pages then this master is 1 collapsed layer and is named by default "... – 2 Pages". If you clear the master of the right page of this spread then this master layer gets auto-renamed to "... – Left" (maybe you need to toggle the masters visibility to make the change appear immediately). Now, if you unfold that master layer in the layers panel you might still find all items of the original master, those of the un-applied master included, but set to invisible on your page in main view. And/but if you select the master layer then only the left half of your spread shows a selection rectangle, the hidden items of the cleared master are still there but not selected. Although you can select the hidden sub-layer of this unfolded master layer to make its selection occur in your main window. Maybe this hidden halfs of master spreads do help the application to make text flow work correctly; I don't know, I haven't tried. I remember any earlier APub (beta?) version where your observation also happened for single pages, means the first/last page of a facing page document. They always showed the other, 'invisible' half of their master, off the page, in the workspace. That appears to be improved for first/last page, at least I can't see it happen nowadays. But in their layers panel I still see all items of the entire 2-page-master spread. Edited April 8, 2020 by thomaso irrelevant part in 2nd paragraph deleted Quote macOS 10.14.6 | MacBookPro Retina 15" | Eizo 27" | Affinity V1
garrettm30 Posted April 8, 2020 Author Posted April 8, 2020 14 hours ago, thomaso said: Do I understand right that you observed this occurrence without experiencing an actual bug? No, the suspected bug is the part where I can select an object that should not be there. After I was able to work through the confusion, I was able to understand that the program still keeps all of the objects of the entire master spread even when applied to one page. Perhaps that is how it has to work, and I don't know about that. However, an attempt is made to hide that fact from the user, as it should be (the user does not need to know about the inner workings). The objects themselves are not visible, and often they are not selectable. But in this case, it is possible to select them, and even edit them without seeing it. Consider, for example, that you can type a misspelled word in a such a text frame that is not visible in the document. Now you have a spelling error that might be hard to fix. I have made this video below demonstrating this confusing experience: buggy_exprience_demo.mov This is a buggy experience to the user, even if this was the expected behavior, so improvement is welcome however you classify it. However, at this point, I am still inclined to think it is more likely that the behavior in my sample file was not intended, which is what led me to choose this forum to start with. Quote
Seneca Posted April 8, 2020 Posted April 8, 2020 6 minutes ago, garrettm30 said: This is a buggy experience to the user, I have reported this usability issue at least twice on this board so this is not an unknown issue. I hope that when Serif comes up with an updated layer system they will also address this issue here. garrettm30 and Wosven 1 1 Quote 2017 27” iMac 4.2 GHz Quad-Core Intel Core i7 • Radeon Pr 580 8GB • 64GB • Ventura 13.6.4. iPad Pro (10.5-inch) • 256GB • Version 16.4
garrettm30 Posted April 8, 2020 Author Posted April 8, 2020 4 minutes ago, Seneca said: I have reported this usability issue at least twice on this board Thank you for letting me know. If you can find one of those threads without much effort, I would appreciate a link to it. Quote
thomaso Posted April 8, 2020 Posted April 8, 2020 13 minutes ago, garrettm30 said: The objects themselves are not visible, and often they are not selectable. But in this case, it is possible to select them, and even edit them without seeing it. Consider, for example, that you can type a misspelled word in a such a text frame that is not visible in the document. Now you have a spelling error that might be hard to fix. Thanks for clarifying! Yes, indeed this buggy occurrence creates confusion, in my yesterday trial I just hadn't clicked on those objects on the page. Now I also discover again the unexpected half of spread masters even for single pages: they occur if I click in the – visually empty – workspace. So the improvement I assumed for those pages in my recent post did not happen actually, sorry. garrettm30 1 Quote macOS 10.14.6 | MacBookPro Retina 15" | Eizo 27" | Affinity V1
garrettm30 Posted April 8, 2020 Author Posted April 8, 2020 1 minute ago, thomaso said: So the improvement I assumed for those pages in my recent post did not happen actually, sorry. You are not alone in assuming an improvement. I can't remember the details, but I seem to remember this was fixed somewhere in 1.8, so I was surprised to see it again. Quote
Seneca Posted April 8, 2020 Posted April 8, 2020 35 minutes ago, garrettm30 said: If you can find one of those threads without much effort, I would appreciate a link to it. Oddly enough you were the one one that left a comment there. Quote 2017 27” iMac 4.2 GHz Quad-Core Intel Core i7 • Radeon Pr 580 8GB • 64GB • Ventura 13.6.4. iPad Pro (10.5-inch) • 256GB • Version 16.4
garrettm30 Posted April 8, 2020 Author Posted April 8, 2020 1 minute ago, Seneca said: Oddly enough you were the one one that left a comment there. That's funny, but it doesn't surprise me at all. Sometimes I have to be careful not to make new threads for bugs I myself already reported and forgot about. Thanks for sharing the link. It seems we haven't heard back from Serif on this issue yet. Seneca 1 Quote
Stan.B Posted April 8, 2020 Posted April 8, 2020 5 hours ago, garrettm30 said: No, the suspected bug is the part where I can select an object that should not be there. After I was able to work through the confusion, I was able to understand that the program still keeps all of the objects of the entire master spread even when applied to one page. Perhaps that is how it has to work, and I don't know about that. However, an attempt is made to hide that fact from the user, as it should be (the user does not need to know about the inner workings). The objects themselves are not visible, and often they are not selectable. But in this case, it is possible to select them, and even edit them without seeing it. Consider, for example, that you can type a misspelled word in a such a text frame that is not visible in the document. Now you have a spelling error that might be hard to fix. I have made this video below demonstrating this confusing experience: buggy_exprience_demo.mov 19.68 MB · 0 downloads This is a buggy experience to the user, even if this was the expected behavior, so improvement is welcome however you classify it. However, at this point, I am still inclined to think it is more likely that the behavior in my sample file was not intended, which is what led me to choose this forum to start with. Hi, I was to write about the problem as well. I am seeing "ghost objects" (coloured frames) from the spread template applied to just one page of the spread. Cheers, Stan Quote
Wosven Posted December 25, 2020 Posted December 25, 2020 I had long time ago complain about the double master pages needing to be appied as single pages to not have those ghost frames, that can be problematic or confusing. I'm happy at least it's noted as bug! Quote
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