RobinMcL Posted May 27, 2019 Posted May 27, 2019 Hello, I have a small book ready to print but have not yet managed to find a way to do so. I have many, many problems but the one of greatest significance is to find a way of actually printing the book in the signatures I need for binding. The following is what I have looked at. There must be a solution somewhere (It is called Publisher after all.) but I have not found it. Any help will be greatly appreciated. I require signatures from 1 (rare) to 4 sheets of paper (that is, 4 to 16 pages). However, this requirement is not fixed as, for different books, I will be using paper of differing thicknesses and hence will select different numbers of sheets for the signatures. I have coloured photos that go to the edge of the spread and cover the entire spread, NOT just an entire page. This means that I have to use Bleed and then trim the text block. If I use Booklet as the printing option, it prints the entire file as a single signature (a "booklet" is, essentially, a single signature.) This is no good whatsoever. An average book has between 6 and 10 sheets for each signature. I've never seen a 100 page book bound in a single signature. Since I am using thick paper, my signatures will have about three sheets (on average). If I use Book as the printing option, then it does the page imposition assuming that each signature has a single sheet. This option is equally useless as it would force me into hand sewing every single sheet. As above, I have never seen a book where all the signatures have only a single sheet. Since neither of these options make sense in my situation, I have tried workarounds via the use of pdf files. I purchased a PDF editor (at twice the price of Publisher) just to do the imposition - but that failed too! The reason is subtle ( and very frustrating). IF I export spreads then I can get the bleed done correctly AND get crop marks etc., things that I need for alignment and trimming at the binding stage. BUT, while the PDF software CAN do imposition, it is NOT imposition of spreads that I need. It is imposition of pages AND .... Phew! IF I export, from Publisher, as Pages, THEN it puts bleed round each page. That is, Bleed round FOUR sides of each page (not round each spread)!!! So then, when the imposition is done, there are two strips of bleed down the middle of each spread! Ouch!! This is NOT what is required. If I export as pages WITHOUT bleed, then the imposition in the PDF software does look fine. BUT there is no bleed, crop marks etc. So, although this looks nice on the monitor, it is NOT suitable for printing and binding when I need to trim the text block on the Crop Marks. There are additional, still serious, problems. I use Affinity Photo for photo-editing but, when I put a Photo image into Publisher, the colours change. I have checked and I have the same colour profile in each. I have also checked using Windows Explorer preview window. There is NO difference between the image in Photo and Windows Explorer (preview), but the same image in Publisher is significantly different. When I try my workaround by creating a PDF file, I have not yet found a way to get a PDF that does not change the colours. My monitor is a high-end NEC with its own 14-bit LUT and I re-calibrate it every two weeks. Surely all I need MUST be in Publisher but I have not found it yet. I have searched the tutorials but found no reference. I have been struggling with this for two years (from PagePlus9 days). The imposition algorithm is utterly trivial. I expected to find it under Print but can't see it. Where is it? I will be eternally grateful to anyone who can help me solve this problem. I have spent two years on this project, spent many thousands of dollars all the time assuming that printing a small book would be a feature in any publishing software. I have asked this question before and people have been sympathetic but could offer me no solution. I hope someone out there knows the answer. Splitting my file into several files is not practical as small changes are likely to be made from one printing to the next and these would cascade over all subsequent files. There is also the problem of all the photos covering entire spreads, not just pages. Sincerely, Robin Patrick Connor 1 Quote
MikeW Posted May 27, 2019 Posted May 27, 2019 No possibility of signatures. Consider buying an imposition application that will have better control over the imposition process. Mike Quote
Seneca Posted May 27, 2019 Posted May 27, 2019 40 minutes ago, RobinMcL said: I will be eternally grateful to anyone who can help me solve this problem. Sorry if I didn't grasp your requirements but are you going to print this book yourself on your local printer or are you going to send it out to a professional printer? Quote 2017 27” iMac 4.2 GHz Quad-Core Intel Core i7 • Radeon Pr 580 8GB • 64GB • Ventura 13.6.4. iPad Pro (10.5-inch) • 256GB • Version 16.4
Seadog Posted May 28, 2019 Posted May 28, 2019 17 hours ago, RobinMcL said: There are additional, still serious, problems. I use Affinity Photo for photo-editing but, when I put a Photo image into Publisher, the colours change. I have checked and I have the same colour profile in each. I have also checked using Windows Explorer preview window. There is NO difference between the image in Photo and Windows Explorer (preview), but the same image in Publisher is significantly different. When I try my workaround by creating a PDF file, I have not yet found a way to get a PDF that does not change the colours. Hope I can give you a little encouragement regarding "changed" colours and AffPublisher. Forgive me if this is something you already know about. I have just this week had printed (by professional printer) a booklet, almost entirely laid out in and output from Aff Publisher. As previous editions of the book were laid out in Apple Pages (not a bad app by the way, but a bit limited), I decided some of the more complex pages should continue in this issue to be generated from within Pages as I didn't want to start from scratch designing them in AffPublsher. The finished pages in the Pages app were output as the usual high-res PDFs required for this job by the printer. The nub of this story is that I got quite a shock to discover at this stage that the output PDFs from Pages app displayed marked differences in colour to colours displayed on similar pages being worked on in Aff Publisher.......eeeek! This was despite identical colours being used on both sets of pages (ie within Pages app and within AffPub). All of the above relates to the colours displayed ON SCREEN – the same screen for all. Foolhardy or not, I pressed on, dropping the odd-looking PDFs generated in Pages into blind holding pages in the book file in AffPub. Then the whole was output to PDFs and off to the printer. It was a huge relief to discover, when I arrived to pass page proofs at the printer's, that the colours had been output and more importantly printed identically to each other on both sets of pages, regardless of the disparity in the ON SCREEN originals. Moral of this tale: not all programs display graphics – especially PDFs – in the same way on screen. (Which I sort of vaguely knew but had never tested in a production run) Hope this helps you RobinMcL....... Quote MacOS 10.14.5 – MBP – 16Gb DDR – 500Gb Crucial SSD Affinity Publisher (beta) Affinity Designer Affinity Photo
Amontillado Posted January 29, 2024 Posted January 29, 2024 I'm working through a similar situation. The solution I'm using is save the file I want to print. Create a new file and use Document->Add pages from file to grab a range of pages for the signature I want to print next. Make sure to grab an even multiple of four pages. Use the section manager to set the starting page correctly, otherwise page numbers will restart at 1. Ignore preflight warnings to fix tables of contents (hopefully that was done before saving the main file). Print the signature. Repeat for each signature. Imposition is correct. If you use or reference page numbers, it's critical to use the section manager to set the starting page number of each signature as you print it. Quote
Robert Leblanc Posted August 1, 2024 Posted August 1, 2024 I use a signature calculator that I created to calculate pages sequences for booklet printing. It allows me to enter the first and last pages I want to print and then select a signature size. It then generates the required page sequence, which can then be copied and pasted into the pages field of the print dialogue. Choose n-up printing with 2 across and with short side page flipping print your document. So far it seems to have worked OK for me. You are welcome to try it if you like. Unfortunately, I only have it for Windows. Oufti 1 Quote
walt.farrell Posted August 1, 2024 Posted August 1, 2024 10 hours ago, Robert Leblanc said: I use a signature calculator that I created to calculate pages sequences for booklet printing. It allows me to enter the first and last pages I want to print and then select a signature size. It then generates the required page sequence, which can then be copied and pasted into the pages field of the print dialogue. Choose n-up printing with 2 across and with short side page flipping print your document. So far it seems to have worked OK for me. You are welcome to try it if you like. Unfortunately, I only have it for Windows. Welcome to the Affinity forums, Robert. Thanks; that's a kind offer, and a useful approach to think about. I wanted to point out that the Moderators won't allow sharing of compiled executable files (.exe) here, due to security concerns. It might be different if it were a Python or other kind of human-readable script. Quote -- Walt Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases PC: Desktop: Windows 11 Pro 23H2, 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 Laptop: Windows 11 Pro 23H2, 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU. Laptop 2: Windows 11 Pro 24H2, 16GB memory, Snapdragon(R) X Elite - X1E80100 - Qualcomm(R) Oryon(TM) 12 Core CPU 4.01 GHz, Qualcomm(R) Adreno(TM) X1-85 GPU iPad: iPad Pro M1, 12.9": iPadOS 18.3, Apple Pencil 2, Magic Keyboard Mac: 2023 M2 MacBook Air 15", 16GB memory, macOS Sequoia 15.0.1
Alfred Posted August 1, 2024 Posted August 1, 2024 12 minutes ago, walt.farrell said: the Moderators won't allow sharing of compiled executable files (.exe) here I imagine that this choice, if indeed it is a choice, would be made at admin rather than moderator level. Executable files can, however, usually be attached to forum posts if you zip them up first. Quote Alfred Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 2 for Windows • Windows 10 Home/Pro Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 2 for iPad • iPadOS 17.5.1 (iPad 7th gen)
walt.farrell Posted August 1, 2024 Posted August 1, 2024 1 hour ago, Alfred said: I imagine that this choice, if indeed it is a choice, would be made at admin rather than moderator level. Executable files can, however, usually be attached to forum posts if you zip them up first. They can be attached even without zipping. However, the moderators will remove the attachment when they notice it, and that would apply even if zipped. Alfred 1 Quote -- Walt Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases PC: Desktop: Windows 11 Pro 23H2, 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 Laptop: Windows 11 Pro 23H2, 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU. Laptop 2: Windows 11 Pro 24H2, 16GB memory, Snapdragon(R) X Elite - X1E80100 - Qualcomm(R) Oryon(TM) 12 Core CPU 4.01 GHz, Qualcomm(R) Adreno(TM) X1-85 GPU iPad: iPad Pro M1, 12.9": iPadOS 18.3, Apple Pencil 2, Magic Keyboard Mac: 2023 M2 MacBook Air 15", 16GB memory, macOS Sequoia 15.0.1
Oufti Posted August 1, 2024 Posted August 1, 2024 If this signature calculator is an .xlsx file or the like it shouldn't be a problem, should it? Quote Affinity Suite 2.5 – Monterey 12.7.5 – MacBookPro 14" 2021 M1 Pro 16Go/1To I apologise for any approximations in my English. It is not my mother tongue.
walt.farrell Posted August 1, 2024 Posted August 1, 2024 1 hour ago, Oufti said: If this signature calculator is an .xlsx file or the like it shouldn't be a problem, should it? No, but if it were XLSX, then it wouldn't be "only for Windows" as @Robert Leblanc mentioned, would it? Quote -- Walt Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases PC: Desktop: Windows 11 Pro 23H2, 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 Laptop: Windows 11 Pro 23H2, 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU. Laptop 2: Windows 11 Pro 24H2, 16GB memory, Snapdragon(R) X Elite - X1E80100 - Qualcomm(R) Oryon(TM) 12 Core CPU 4.01 GHz, Qualcomm(R) Adreno(TM) X1-85 GPU iPad: iPad Pro M1, 12.9": iPadOS 18.3, Apple Pencil 2, Magic Keyboard Mac: 2023 M2 MacBook Air 15", 16GB memory, macOS Sequoia 15.0.1
Oufti Posted August 1, 2024 Posted August 1, 2024 2 minutes ago, walt.farrell said: if it were XLSX, then it wouldn't be "only for Windows" as @Robert Leblanc mentioned, would it? It could, if he uses macros, thing that doesn't exist on Excel for Mac. walt.farrell 1 Quote Affinity Suite 2.5 – Monterey 12.7.5 – MacBookPro 14" 2021 M1 Pro 16Go/1To I apologise for any approximations in my English. It is not my mother tongue.
Robert Leblanc Posted August 1, 2024 Posted August 1, 2024 (edited) 1 hour ago, Oufti said: If this signature calculator is an .xlsx file or the like it shouldn't be a problem, should it? It can be done as an xlsx file. Without macros might be a challenge. I'll try to put that together and post it if I succeed. Edited August 1, 2024 by Robert Leblanc Oufti 1 Quote
Robert Leblanc Posted August 2, 2024 Posted August 2, 2024 On 8/1/2024 at 2:02 PM, Robert Leblanc said: It can be done as an xlsx file. Without macros might be a challenge. I'll try to put that together and post it if I succeed. Here is an excel spreadsheet. It's kind of clunky - but it seems to work OK. Give it a try and let me know if it works for you. If you find problems with it, let me know and I will do what I can to fix it. Signatures.xlsx Oufti and walt.farrell 2 Quote
Oufti Posted August 2, 2024 Posted August 2, 2024 On 8/1/2024 at 2:16 AM, Robert Leblanc said: I use a signature calculator that I created to calculate pages sequences for booklet printing. […] Unfortunately, I only have it for Windows. It gave me the idea to try to make something similar with Apple Numbers, for Mac users (but quickly done, much simpler than what you described). On 8/1/2024 at 2:16 AM, Robert Leblanc said: It allows me to enter the first and last pages I want to print [and then select a signature size]. It then generates the required page sequence, which can then be copied and pasted into the pages field of the print dialogue. Choose n-up printing with 2 across and with short side page flipping print your document. Inspired by your description, what this tool offers: It calculates in-folio signatures (4 pages on two spreads rº-vº, then all sheets are folded and put inside each other, then saddle stitched or stapled) — Note: you can't select other signatures (like in-quarto, in-octavo, etc.), it's only intended for booklets. For home printing, it should still be useful. Number of visible rows is automatically adjusted (Filter function) Visual control of the page sequence – It can also be hidden Formulas used are split in small chunks, for a better understanding later… 😇 What we have to do: Choose the number of pages (multiple of 4) Change the separator sign used between each page number, if needed (comma + space by default) Change the first page number, if needed. It has to be a multiple of 4 + 1 (p.1, 5, 9, 13,…) — Cells to be completed are bordered in green Copy-paste the result into the pages field of the print dialogue Though it's still quite rough: There is no check for the number of pages, thus no automatic blank pages added if it's not a multiple of 4 (should not be difficult to implement if wanted) Exported as .xlsx, it is not really functional. So I made a screen capture with the formulas I used, in case it gives ideas for others to adapt it. UI is in French only, up to now (but there is not much to translate…) Hope this helps or inspires someone. Anyway, thank you @Robert Leblanc for having given me the will to make this little tool. Booklet Imposition Calculator.numbers Booklet Imposition Calculator.xlsx walt.farrell 1 Quote Affinity Suite 2.5 – Monterey 12.7.5 – MacBookPro 14" 2021 M1 Pro 16Go/1To I apologise for any approximations in my English. It is not my mother tongue.
Oufti Posted August 2, 2024 Posted August 2, 2024 6 minutes ago, Robert Leblanc said: Here is an excel spreadsheet. It looks like we were coordinated! Thank you very much for this contribution. I'll look at it (opening it with Numbers or LibreOffice as I don't really have Excel anymore, beside on an old Mac I barely use now) and tell you how it works. Quote Affinity Suite 2.5 – Monterey 12.7.5 – MacBookPro 14" 2021 M1 Pro 16Go/1To I apologise for any approximations in my English. It is not my mother tongue.
Oufti Posted August 2, 2024 Posted August 2, 2024 On 8/2/2024 at 8:17 PM, Oufti said: I'll look at it (…) and tell you how it works. Brilliant! Thank you again. It works perfectly well, for all I tested. It probably does not look as good as you intended, since conditional highlighting does not work the same in both programs (I'm curious to see that in action), but calculations are correct, error messages appear and the underlaying logique is very clear. Here's the essential. Opening it with Numbers, I had first this harmless message: And in practice, once I've removed these cosmetic alerts, there was only one function that had been modified, for the best (IFNUMBER handles numbers and dates, not only numbers but since there are no dates here, it doesn't even matter). In conclusion, as you can see, your spreadsheet is perfectly usable as it is: For what I see, it's working mainly the same way I followed, with a major advancement i.e. it also uses sheets folded as "in-folio" but to create multiple booklets (= signatures) of a fixed length. — This goes a step further than what I did, since in your spreadsheet, you can multiply the signatures to make a broader book, I imagine by sewing or glueing together all the booklets. In my first unsuccessful attempts, I was stuck with more complex foldings (in-4º, in-8º, in-16 etc.), involving pages printed upside down and so on… That's another ball game, for which I had no personal use and printers I'm in contact with are generally equipped to make their imposition. Now, I can't wait to integrate your advanced method in my spreadsheet! Quote Affinity Suite 2.5 – Monterey 12.7.5 – MacBookPro 14" 2021 M1 Pro 16Go/1To I apologise for any approximations in my English. It is not my mother tongue.
MikeW Posted August 2, 2024 Posted August 2, 2024 Geez. Just purchase an imposition software application and do it right. An imposition application will deal with creep based upon paper thickness and the pdf it will produce will print properly. Quote
Amontillado Posted August 2, 2024 Posted August 2, 2024 The imposition software I've found is quite expensive. Making the signatures by printing page ranges sounds pretty simple. Do you have a recommendation for imposition software? I'm inexperienced at binding. Creep in even a ten sheet signature seems minimal and in my case I've solved it by trimming. My output hasn't exactly been artisanal. My use has been for limited distribution business reports in sections of about 100 pages. And, of course, protest pamphlets of 20 pages or less, which I just do in one center stapled pamphlet. Quote
MikeW Posted August 2, 2024 Posted August 2, 2024 36 minutes ago, Amontillado said: Do you have a recommendation for imposition software? Please search the forum. This has been discussed in the past. You'll find threads with recommendations. Quote
Amontillado Posted August 3, 2024 Posted August 3, 2024 Thanks, Mike, I appreciate the referral. Feedback is somewhat limited, understandable in an Affinity forum not targeted for apps like Imposition Studio or CreateBooklet. I couldn't find anything recent about printer support for creep control. It looks like some relatively low cost Canon printers have creep compensation built in. A Canon forum would be the appropriate place to learn more. Off I go! Quote
Robert Leblanc Posted August 3, 2024 Posted August 3, 2024 11 hours ago, MikeW said: Geez. Just purchase an imposition software application and do it right. An imposition application will deal with creep based upon paper thickness and the pdf it will produce will print properly. Sure - or just go back to Indesign which includes signature printing. But this is a low cost solution that meets my needs. And creep is not significant for my purposes. To tell you the truth, lack of signature printing in Affinity Publisher was almost a deal breaker for me. I pretty much only design longer books (170 to 300 pages) which I print and bind by hand myself. I have been trialing Affinity Publisher and I really, really like it. As much as I like Indesign, I like Affinity more. But signature printing is a must have for me. I was almost going to stick with Indesign because of this. But then, I found that by putting the required page sequences into the pages field of Affinity's print dialog and choosing 2-up printing, I can in fact print signatures. So I created a signature calculator that allows me to specify the number of pages in my book (must be multiple of 4) and then choose from among a list of viable signature sizes for that number of pages up to a signature size of 32. The signature calculator then calculates the page sequence required to print your book in signatures. I can then copy and paste the sequence into the pages field of the print dialog and print accordingly. This will meet my needs until Affinity has a viable signature printing feature of its own and I am quite happy with it. Admittedly, the spreadsheet I posted is a bit of a hack. I don't use it myself. I use my compiled program, which has a few more features than can be implemented with a spreadsheet. Because I couldn't post an EXE in these forums, I offered the spreadsheet up instead in case anyone else might find it useful. Oufti 1 Quote
MikeW Posted August 3, 2024 Posted August 3, 2024 4 hours ago, Robert Leblanc said: Sure - or just go back to Indesign which includes signature printing. But this is a low cost solution that meets my needs. And creep is not significant for my purposes. To tell you the truth, lack of signature printing in Affinity Publisher was almost a deal breaker for me. I pretty much only design longer books (170 to 300 pages) which I print and bind by hand myself. I have been trialing Affinity Publisher and I really, really like it. As much as I like Indesign, I like Affinity more. But signature printing is a must have for me. I was almost going to stick with Indesign because of this. But then, I found that by putting the required page sequences into the pages field of Affinity's print dialog and choosing 2-up printing, I can in fact print signatures. So I created a signature calculator that allows me to specify the number of pages in my book (must be multiple of 4) and then choose from among a list of viable signature sizes for that number of pages up to a signature size of 32. The signature calculator then calculates the page sequence required to print your book in signatures. I can then copy and paste the sequence into the pages field of the print dialog and print accordingly. This will meet my needs until Affinity has a viable signature printing feature of its own and I am quite happy with it. Admittedly, the spreadsheet I posted is a bit of a hack. I don't use it myself. I use my compiled program, which has a few more features than can be implemented with a spreadsheet. Because I couldn't post an EXE in these forums, I offered the spreadsheet up instead in case anyone else might find it useful. I didn't mean to denigrate your contributions. With typical/nominal home printer paper thickness, a 32-page sig will spread, or choke (using either methodology separately), between 4mm and 5 mm. Depending on the design, that is very visual to me. At least for Windows, there is a limited free imposition application (Montax). The limit is on the output, imposed page size (A4/Letter). I don't know if there are other limitations. I have used their paid-for versions for many years, which has no limitations. There are (at least, were) free on-line imposition solutions as well. lacerto 1 Quote
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