ICC Profile not showing in Assign ICC Profile list

[KevinC]

I have been trying to set up profiling for my camera using the X-Rite i1Pro System, and Affinity Photo 1.6.7 on a Mac, and have managed to generate an uncompressed TIFF from a digital negative using the Affinity Photo Beta. I've then used that within the supplied X-Rite ColorChecker Passport software to generate an ICC profile. I've managed similar with my scanner and have that working. When I first profiled the camera and placed it within the profiles folder where the scanner profile sits, it would not show up in the assign profile list within Affinity. I checked the profile using Mac ColorSync utility, and it showed an issue with the headers for the profile which I fixed, but that still not fix the issue within Affinity after restarting it. I deleted the profile and started again and this time ColorSync did not report an error, but the profile still doesn't show up in the list of profiles even after rebooting the computer. Has anyone else come across this problem, or have any suggestion of what else to try?

[v_kyr]

Well assuming your generated icc-profile is a correct and an Ok one then, it depends where certain software does OS related look after possible locations for profiles. See ...

• How to install profiles on your computer

... and similar net entries about that theme, do a Google search after that topic.

[KevinC]

Yes I've placed it in the correct folder alright, which is the same one in which the scanner profile is held, which shows up fine, so I'm at a bit of a loss to understand why the camera one does not do likewise, given it's recognised by the file system and ColorSync as an icc profile.

[v_kyr]

Do you have or use some other color management aware software, in order to test and check if that can instead see and make use of that profile?

[KevinC]

Thanks for your input v_kyr and BofG. To answer your questions, yes both profiles are RGB, and the only other thing I have that uses profiles is Preview on the Mac, and neither the scanner nor the camera profile show up in that. I will email both profiles to a friend who uses Photoshop and Lightroom, and get him to try them out and see if they both work in Adobe.

[KevinC]

I've now had my two profiles checked out by a friend using Photoshop on a Mac and both the scanner and the camera profiles load correctly and can be used to adjust images, so the issue here would appear to be with Affinity and its handling of these particular files. If someone from Affinity would care to comment that would be useful, as otherwise I can't get proper colour management working with my X-Rite system. I bought the colour management software at this year's Photography Show at the NEC and Affinity Photo was bundled with the device, although I already own a copy for use. 

[v_kyr]

You can file in a bug report and/or feature request here in the forums appropriate Mac sections.

[R C-R]

1 hour ago, KevinC said:

... so the issue here would appear to be with Affinity and its handling of these particular files.

But you mentioned in your previous post that the profiles don't show up in Preview.app either, so that suggests the issue isn't with Affinity.

[KevinC]

58 minutes ago, R C-R said:

But you mentioned in your previous post that the profiles don't show up in Preview.app either, so that suggests the issue isn't with Affinity.

I don't know why the profiles don't display in Preview and I haven't time to investigate that at the moment as I don't use Preview. The problem may not lie with Affinity alone, but Affinity Photo displays one profile and not the other on a Mac, while Photoshop on a Mac displays both, so Affinity in conjunction with OS 10.4 appears problematic too, unless there is some unspecified issue with the ICC profile that ColorSync is not telling me. Affinity comes bundled with X-Rite, so between X-Rite, Affinity and OS X 10.4 there is something for Affinity to potentially address as well, but an understanding in the first instance of whether this issue has ever cropped up with other users with the same workflow would be a help in deciding what to do next.

[KevinC]

Thanks for the suggestion BofG. I've uploaded the ICC files for anyone who might care to try them for me. I removed both profiles from user Profile folder, which is where they are automatically stored when first saved, and is the correct location according to X-Rite documentation, but still had the scanner profile showing up in the list of profiles in Affinity, so I deleted everything for Affinity within Application Support, Preferences, Containers etc and manage to get the profiles list to reset. Then I added both profiles back to the Profiles folder, and now neither of them shows, where before I did have the scanner. Does anyone know anything about where Affinity stores its list of available profiles? It does seem to be an issue of recognising the profiles, and the ICC files are much larger file sizes than others such as the monitor profile. I will run it past X-Rite as well as it is their ColorChecker Camera Calibration software that is generating the profiles.

CameraProfile.icc

CanoScanLiDE100.icc

[KevinC]

I’ve held a conversation about this issue with a member of the technical team at x-rite, and it appears the situation is as follows:

The x-rite colour profiling software (ColorChecker), in conjunction with their Passport Photo reference target for cameras, makes use of a DNG file to generate a DCP profile. Alternatively, ColorChecker requires an uncompressed TIFF file, which importantly, must also be free of any colour space information, to generate an accurate ICC profile. Affinity Photo cannot handle DCP profiles, and will not handle ICC files generated by X-Rite ColorChecker.

Adobe Lightroom and Adobe Photoshop both handle X-Rite’s requirements for professional colour profiling correctly.

Affinity Photo is advertised as the “standout choice for professionals”, and having “all the power and performance you will ever need”, and yet it does not support colour profiles for a leading colour management solution, which its own software has recently been bundled with.

It makes me wonder which if any colour profiles output by current colour management solutions Serif has ever tested with its software. And what function does the Assign ICC Profile have exactly, if it cannot assign a profile made for a camera, when that forms an important element in full colour management?

As it stands, Affinity Photo cannot be used as a professional photo editor by those seeking precise colour management of their workflow, and for all its otherwise excellent features, appears to fall at the very first hurdle. Would someone from Serif care to comment now about this situation?

[lepr]

.

[KevinC]

On 5/5/2019 at 4:07 PM, >|< said:

Your two files are classed as input profiles. If you use AP's File > Import Profile then they will be stored in "~/Library/Containers/com.seriflabs.affinityphoto/Data/Library/Application Support/profiles/" folder and available in the Photo persona. The Develop persona currently does not allow selection of input profile, however, unlike Capture One and several other raw developers.

Thanks for that. I must admit I’d passed over the File > Import ICC Profile option in favour of the Document > Assign ICC Profile, since I was expecting it to display all available profiles once saving them to User > Library > ColorSync > Profiles, as per X-Rite’s own procedure. That said, things are still not working, and I’ve now switched over to Adobe Lightroom to get accurate colour management working. Just to elaborate the differences here:

Adobe obviously uses the DNG format and so successfully loads my DCP camera profiles, which are available to apply from within it’s RAW processing, unlike Affinity Photo, which only allows me to assign my ICC camera profile within its Photo Persona. In addition Lightroom’s White Balance adjustment panel features an eyedropper that can be used on an image of the X-Rite Color Passport to set an adjustment, which in conjunction with the camera profile, provides accurate colour adjustment to the eye. I’m photographing objects which have various shades of colour which I can compare directly against images produced on my calibrated screen.

Affinity Photo’s White Balance Tool on the other hand gives a wider range of values when clicking on a Color Passport square, but when an average set of values for Temperature and Tint are applied to a chosen image, it is improved, though still different when viewed side-by-side to the same image with colour correction applied in Lightroom. However when I develop the image in Affinity, and then assign my camera profile, that adversely affects the colours, and takes everything about .70 of a stop deeper. If I make that adjustment in Affinity Photo, colours are still not accurate. Part of the issue may well be the ICC camera profile is not correct, since as previously stated, X-Rite have informed me any TIFF used for a profile must be both uncompressed and without colour space information, but getting accurate colour management that I can trust from within Affinity Photo appears impossible at this time.

I would be genuinely interested to learn how Serif sees the situation, and how their development team has gone about achieving accurate colour management with standard industry tools, in particular X-Rite, since they had their software bundled with that product. The bottom line here is that my colour management tools work as advertised within Lightroom, which produces very good results I can trust, and provides a much better RAW workflow. Affinity Photo is an impressive piece of software at the price, but doesn’t seem geared up to perform accurate colour management, which is something any serious amateur or professional requires.

[RudiG]

On 5/8/2019 at 12:27 PM, KevinC said:

I would be genuinely interested to learn how Serif sees the situation, and how their development team has gone about achieving accurate colour management with standard industry tools, in particular X-Rite, since they had their software bundled with that product. The bottom line here is that my colour management tools work as advertised within Lightroom, which produces very good results I can trust, and provides a much better RAW workflow. Affinity Photo is an impressive piece of software at the price, but doesn’t seem geared up to perform accurate colour management, which is something any serious amateur or professional requires. 

+1 from me ... I need a camera color profile .... and x-Rite compatibility would be great!!!

 

Any news on this?

[Jowday]

On 5/8/2019 at 12:27 PM, KevinC said:

Thanks for that. I must admit I’d passed over the File > Import ICC Profile option in favour of the Document > Assign ICC Profile, since I was expecting it to display all available profiles once saving them to User > Library > ColorSync > Profiles, as per X-Rite’s own procedure. That said, things are still not working, and I’ve now switched over to Adobe Lightroom to get accurate colour management working. Just to elaborate the differences here:

Adobe obviously uses the DNG format and so successfully loads my DCP camera profiles, which are available to apply from within it’s RAW processing, unlike Affinity Photo, which only allows me to assign my ICC camera profile within its Photo Persona. In addition Lightroom’s White Balance adjustment panel features an eyedropper that can be used on an image of the X-Rite Color Passport to set an adjustment, which in conjunction with the camera profile, provides accurate colour adjustment to the eye. I’m photographing objects which have various shades of colour which I can compare directly against images produced on my calibrated screen.

Affinity Photo’s White Balance Tool on the other hand gives a wider range of values when clicking on a Color Passport square, but when an average set of values for Temperature and Tint are applied to a chosen image, it is improved, though still different when viewed side-by-side to the same image with colour correction applied in Lightroom. However when I develop the image in Affinity, and then assign my camera profile, that adversely affects the colours, and takes everything about .70 of a stop deeper. If I make that adjustment in Affinity Photo, colours are still not accurate. Part of the issue may well be the ICC camera profile is not correct, since as previously stated, X-Rite have informed me any TIFF used for a profile must be both uncompressed and without colour space information, but getting accurate colour management that I can trust from within Affinity Photo appears impossible at this time.

I would be genuinely interested to learn how Serif sees the situation, and how their development team has gone about achieving accurate colour management with standard industry tools, in particular X-Rite, since they had their software bundled with that product. The bottom line here is that my colour management tools work as advertised within Lightroom, which produces very good results I can trust, and provides a much better RAW workflow. Affinity Photo is an impressive piece of software at the price, but doesn’t seem geared up to perform accurate colour management, which is something any serious amateur or professional requires.

I am curious too.

[v_kyr]

As many other software too, APh relies on third party color management code here, namely LittleCMS. - See also related:

• Suitability of various programs for color management (EN: via Google translate)
• Eingabeprofile [Kameraprofile] - (EN: Input profiles [camera profiles])
• Elle Stone's Well-Behaved ICC Profiles and Code
• Lumariver Profile Designer

BTW, RawTherapee can deal with DNG Camera Profiles (DCP)...

• How to create DCP color profiles

Other tools for cam profiling etc.

• DCamProf
• dcpTool

[Oilsoe]

On 1/4/2020 at 8:30 PM, Jowday said:

I would be genuinely interested to learn how Serif sees the situation, and how their development team has gone about achieving accurate colour management with standard industry tools, in particular X-Rite, since they had their software bundled with that product. The bottom line here is that my colour management tools work as advertised within Lightroom, which produces very good results I can trust, and provides a much better RAW workflow. Affinity Photo is an impressive piece of software at the price, but doesn’t seem geared up to perform accurate colour management, which is something any serious amateur or professional requires.

+1. I'm right now using Capture NX-D for RAW development, because here my Nikon camera profile is used, but like you I got one more APh license with my X-Rite and was disappointed it could not be used.  So I also need camera color profile and x-Rite compatibility.

[v_kyr]

2 hours ago, Oilsoe said:

+1. I'm right now using Capture NX-D for RAW development, because here my Nikon camera profile is used, but like you I got one more APh license with my X-Rite and was disappointed it could not be used.  So I also need camera color profile and x-Rite compatibility.

Somehow it's pretty idiotic marketing wise extra from X-Rite, to add a Photo tool bundle (or add-on gift) together with one of their specific tools, if that software gift then can't make any use out of it (their X-Rite tool) and thus is in terms of calibration support incompatible. - Either way Capture NX-D will give much better results when processing Nikon NEF files.