How to stop the document (canvas) from moving around...

[Figmatt]

This is still causing me grief every single day. Sigh.

 

Interestingly everything is fine (I can move objects with precision) until I scroll the canvas using the mouse.

After that moving objects turns into pin the tail on the donkey whilst on a boat in a storm.

 

My current workaround:

 

 

[MattP]

1 hour ago, matt said:

This is still causing me grief every single day. Sigh.

 

Interestingly everything is fine (I can move objects with precision) until I scroll the canvas using the mouse.

After that moving objects turns into pin the tail on the donkey whilst on a boat in a storm.

 

My current workaround:

 

 

I appreciate the frustration but I don't really know what to say...   The device itself doesn't allow us to distinguish events it broadcasts differently to that of a touch pad (unless someone knows of a magic way to differentiate the two devices?) so the only thing we could do to mitigate this is to effectively destroy the (currently beautiful) behaviour of the touch pad... If you're getting different behaviour after scrolling the document around, I'd suggest that's because the device itself is acting more sensitively to additional scrolls for a period after the initial scroll, as we certainly aren't doing anything like that.

 

So we're open to suggestions if anyone knows how to detect where the input is from, but other than that we'd just be making changes that are to the detriment of anyone with a touch pad...

[MEB]

I believe this is the same issue as the one described here. Seems some kind of fix was applied to the Node Tool. Can't this be done to the Move Tool as well, or am i missing something?

[Figmatt]

That would make sense @MEB! In fact that fix should be applied in many places, or higher up the app logic so that it applies to many interactions.

 

I'll happily loan my Magic Mouse to the Affinity Team to test if they can't reproduce this and/or find a workaround.

[MattP]

The 'fix' that was applied to the Node Tool is just that as soon as the mouse button goes down, we discard all the scroll messages until the mouse up. This annoys me that we even have to do this behaviour, but more than that it stops you panning around mid-drag - which I often use in the Move Tool to help me when I wanted to drag the object to somewhere I've not got in the current view yet...

 

We've got a few Magic Mice - but they don't get used much because they're not very comfortable as they require a very 'perched' hand position, but I appreciate that not everyone is the same and some people love them. The main issue we have is that by disabling scroll during mouse drag, we lose useful functionality for people with Touch Pads... Which is more useful overall? I'm not sure

 

EDIT: I suppose we could just add a 'Disable pan during mouse drag' preferences item that Magic Mouse owners could just enable?

[Figmatt]

Such a preference makes sense. 

 

Is it not possible to apply the "fix" automatically? only when the user is using  a Magic Mouse? 

 

MacOS knows whether the computer has a Magic Mouse and/or a Trackpad, so can Designer? 

 

It'd be great if you could use your Magic Mice just long enough to get this fixed.

[MattP]

The NSEvent that comes through doesn't know if it came from a Magic Mouse or Touch Pad (from memory) so we'd have to query if you had one or the other device attached and perhaps auto-set this variable and if you had both devices just require the user to set it? We'll see how dangerous the code looks....

[MattP]

There may well be 'just enough' data in the NSEvent that gives us a hint whether it came from one or the other - we'd have to examine it...

[Figmatt]

I'm hopeful! 

 

This is some interesting reading, particularly ignoring resting touches: https://developer.apple.com/library/content/documentation/Cocoa/Conceptual/EventOverview/HandlingTouchEvents/HandlingTouchEvents.html

[MEB]

Would be nice to at least have an option to control the behaviour. Currently i simply use another regular scroll-wheel mouse when working in Designer to prevent these issues. For all the rest the Magic Mouse is quite handy.

[Figmatt]

I think I might have to buy another mouse

[GFS]

Actually ... if Serif could improve their Wacom support, that would do me just fine.  I'm more at home with it than a mouse.  I use trackpad left-hand, wacom/mouse right-hand.

[Figmatt]

My new workaround is using: MagicPrefs (free)

 

Cons to this workaround: MagicPrefs has to be open all the time.

 

ONE ALL APPS

1. Create a Preset, in the preset text entry type "Narrow Scrolling Area"
2. In Configure Scrolling, make the scrolling area narrower, click Close
3. Click the cog (next to the preset text entry)
4. Choose Export current settings into this preset

This means that the scroll area in all applications will now not include your chosen area (I removed about 30% from the left side as that's where I click). This means you're less likely to click and scroll at the same time, but you can still scroll if you need to. Result!

 

 

FOR SPECIFIC APPS

1. Create a Preset, in the preset text entry type "No Scrolling"
2. In Configure Scrolling, uncheck all scrolling boxes, click Close
3. Click the cog (next to the preset text entry)
4. Choose Export current settings into this preset
5. Click the cog
6. Choose  Bind specific applications to this preset
7. Select the Affinity apps one at a time, clicking + after each

Now each time you switch to your chosen apps you'll see a notification that your chosen preset has been activated. You can turn the notifications off in System Preferences > Notifications . When you use other apps the chosen preset will not be active.

[Figmatt]

Apple responded to my bug report (was made with reference to Transmit, Panic's FTP app)

 

Quote

Engineering has the following feedback for you:

From an event perspective, AppKit just routes the event. It’s up to higher level views to determine what’s a click and what’s a drag. In this case, it’s a PCGridMenuView which inherits directly form NSView. This is out of AppKit’s control.

We are now closing this bug report.

 

 

 

[Figmatt]

Well! This is surprising.

I've just replaced my old mouse mat (that I'd had so long the cloth had started to go shiny) with a new one (cheap Fellowes fabric on rubber base, £5 from Ryman) and I have much less random scroll whilst clicking. Much more accurate mouse click performance.

 

So, buy yourself a new mouse mat/surface!

 

I still think the app would benefit from better mouse scroll/click logic.

[MEB]

Hi matt,

I'm currently trying to replicate my issues with the Magic Mouse again - using it on an illustration - to see if i can discover where it goes wrong for me.

My problem with it is that sometimes a few objects have moved a few pixels from their original position (accidentally) without me realising how it happened. I believe this is due to the double input of the Magic Mouse (surface + mouse movement) but was yet unable to make it fail intentionally for me. This apparently doesn't happen with a regular mouse. I'm trying to discover what operation causes this, saving the History with the document, which seems a different issue that the one you were describing...

 

Apparently you are having trouble while positioning objects. Have you tried to disable the inertia from the Accessibility Preferences as MattP pointed out above? Does it help at all?

 

[GFS]

Interesting about the matt.  I have mine on my Wacom, which is old and shiny.  I wonder if dust in the mouse could accentuate too? Hmmm.

 

[Figmatt]

2 hours ago, GFS said:

Interesting about the matt.  I have mine on my Wacom, which is old and shiny.  I wonder if dust in the mouse could accentuate too? Hmmm.

 

No idea about dust. It wasn't a factor in my setup AFAIK.

 

2 hours ago, MEB said:

I'm currently trying to replicate my issues with the Magic Mouse again - using it on a illustration - to see if i can discover where it goes wrong for me.

My problem with it is that sometimes a few objects have moved a few pixels from their original position (accidentally) without me realising how it happened. I believe this is due to the double input of the Magic Mouse (surface + mouse movement) but was yet unable to make it fail intentionally for me. This apparently doesn't happen with a regular mouse. I'm trying to discover what operation causes this, saving the History with the document, which seems a different issue that the one you were describing...

3

Well, I have kept my old, shiny mouse mat so I can reproduce on demand. 

 

I would summarise the issue as follows: during a drag operation the canvas scrolls without my intention.

 

"Drag operation" only one single finger on the mouse doing a left click, the mouse moved by fingers grabbing each side. 

 

Swapping to the new mouse mat, I have not been able to get the issue to happen. A drag operation does just that, and the canvas stays fixed.

 

Here are two videos in which I select a group of objects and move it around the canvas using a drag operation.

Let me know if you can figure out which one was recorded whilst using my new mat/surface, and which one whilst using my old mat/surface?

 

https://transfer.sh/15Cqwq/A.mov (file available for 14 days)

https://transfer.sh/CumXC/B.mov (file available for 14 days)

 

it's obvious when you compare both.

 

Let me know if you want me to save a document with history?

 

2 hours ago, MEB said:

Apparently you are having trouble while positioning objects. Have you tried to disable the inertia from the Accessibility Preferences as MattP pointed out above? Does it help at all?

 

I tried it on/off and it made no difference to the random scrolling issue.

 

matt

[MEB]

Thanks for the clips. The A movie is the one that uses the faulty mouse obviously. I will see if i can reproduce this and get to the bottom of the issue.

[Figmatt]

37 minutes ago, MEB said:

Thanks for the clips. The A movie is the one that uses the faulty mouse obviously. I will see if i can reproduce this and get to the bottom of the issue.

 

Indeed. It's obvious by the scroll bars appearing frequently, and also the position of the canvas at the start and end of the video.

 

I'd like to clarify that it's the same Magic Mouse in both videos, just used on different mats/surfaces. 

 

Let me know if I can assist in any way.

[MEB]

You sad mat? Sorry, I misunderstood you. I though you were using two different mouses. That's weird.

[Figmatt]

Yes, very strange. I think that a bad surface causes the Magic Mouse to report spurious events. I will try to log them... somehow.

[MattP]

4 hours ago, matt said:

Well! This is surprising.

I've just replaced my old mouse mat (that I'd had so long the cloth had started to go shiny) with a new one (cheap Fellowes fabric on rubber base, £5 from Ryman) and I have much less random scroll whilst clicking. Much more accurate mouse click performance.

 

So, buy yourself a new mouse mat/surface!

 

I still think the app would benefit from better mouse scroll/click logic.

This may explain something - we're all using it directly on our desks (which are surprisingly clean - at least visually!) and we're not able to reproduce anything strange no matter what we try! Interestingly, I've added a fix earlier that will just stop the misbehaviour in its tracks, so the next beta should resolve the problem - even if you go back to the old mouse mat, haha!

[Figmatt]

Result! Thanks for your effort.

 

I'll keep the new mouse mat, regardless. Much more presentable. 

[Figmatt]

14 hours ago, MattP said:

Interestingly, I've added a fix earlier that will just stop the misbehaviour in its tracks, so the next beta should resolve the problem - even if you go back to the old mouse mat, haha!

What did the fix entail?