Affinity Photo - Another remove background question

[inityaff]

I have some products shot on a white background, but I'm having a hard time figuring out the best workflow in Affinity Photo for removing backgrounds. 
I've tried:

1. Blend Options
2. Filters>Colors>Erase white paper
3. Selection brush (then cut and past selection, or invert selection and delete background)

With the first two options, the drop shadow appears to be maintained, which is nice (see example image attached), but when I mouse over the masked area that appears to be transparent and look at the info panel I am seeing that there is color data in the areas that seem to be fully transparent (see CMYK values in sample image). Likewise, if I copy this layer, or attempt to export, I get the full background, as if the Filter or Blend Options have not been applied.

How do I "apply" the Filter/Blend to get an image with transparent background?

I think I am not understanding something about how masking works in Affinity. 
Also, if I have Levels and Color Balance layers, should I merge these down to get a single, corrected layer before dropping the background?

Thank you.

[Lee D]

Each option will give a slightly different result, it's which ever workflow works best for you. I know using the Erase White Paper option will remove all white and can make some areas semi transparent when you don't want them to be. I tend to use the selection brush and then Mask as I can then use the paint brush tool to manually adjust.

When exporting, remember to export to a format that supports transparency, such as PNG.

The CMYK readouts on the INFO panel are kind of expected but I'll log an improvement request for it to be looked at.

[inityaff]

Hi Lee, 
Thanks for your reply. 
I don't think I was clear in my question. What I'm trying to say is that the background is not being removed or made transparent. When I export the file, it looks the same as the original unedited file, or if it is added on top of a white layer, it looks the same as the original. Does that make sense? In other words, the areas that look like they are fully transparent with the white removed actually have "invisible" color (not zero for CMYK/RGBA values) and when placed on a pure white background or exported as JPEG, it looks exactly like the image did before the background was "removed". Does that make sense?

What I am really asking is how do I get 0000 values for CMYK for the white areas of the image or true transparency in the sense of no color data for the transparent areas. Is the only way to do this select and delete?

[inityaff]

For example, in the sample image, after it is exported as a transparent PNG, if I open it again and look at the RGB/CMYK values in the area that is "transparent" it would appear that they are not in fact devoid of color data. The screen captures don't show the curser, so I have circled the area of the image being measured, and you can see that it has RGBA values of 213,210, 211, 255. To have nothing there it should read 255,255,255,255, right? 

[v_kyr]

Example, create a new document with a transparent background (via the New menu entry and according settings), now inspect the shown values on the Info panel, they should read RGBA (0 0 0 0), CMYK (72% 67% 67% 88%).

[inityaff]

13 minutes ago, v_kyr said:

Example, create a new document with a transparent background (via the New menu entry and according settings), now inspect the shown values on the Info panel, they should read RGBA (0 0 0 0), CMYK (72% 67% 67% 88%).

That's correct. That's what I see.

[inityaff]

Back to my example, if I want a pure white (255,255,255) background, or a purely transparent background (0,0,0) the only way to achieve this is to select and delete?

Edited November 9, 2018 by inityaff

[inityaff]

4 hours ago, Lee D said:

The CMYK readouts on the INFO panel are kind of expected but I'll log an improvement request for it to be looked at.

My issue was that I was not expecting any color data - I was expecting it to be fully transparent or empty. There is color there, as the RGB values indicate, and it is visible when exported.

[carl123]

@inityaff  Did you use blend options in your last screenshot to get the "transparency"?

Can you upload that AP project file here?  Your blend ranges may be wrong

[inityaff]

2 minutes ago, carl123 said:

@inityaff  Did you use blend options in your last screenshot to get the "transparency"?

Can you upload that AP project file here?  Your blend ranges may be wrong

I've tried it both ways. Here is one that was done in a batch using Erase White Paper.

IMG_5882.afphoto

[carl123]

Sorry that's no good to me as Erase White Paper is destructive

Upload the AP file as it is before trying to erase the background

 

[inityaff]

47 minutes ago, carl123 said:

Sorry that's no good to me as Erase White Paper is destructive

Upload the AP file as it is before trying to erase the background

 

Here's a file before background removal is attempted.

before_background.afphoto

[carl123]

Your background is not pure white or uniformed in colour hence the blend ranges need to be adjusted for that when making the background fully transparent.  This will though affect the product's "lightness" so you may then need to adjust brightness/contrast etc for the product until you are happy with it.  See attached for the blend ranges used on the background layer and the resulting info panel measurements.

 

 

before_background2.afphoto

[v_kyr]

1 hour ago, inityaff said:

Back to my example, if I want a pure white (255,255,255) background, or a purely transparent background (0,0,0) the only way to achieve this is to select and delete?

The white background remove filter doesn't perform a complete color remove, meaning the background won't be fully transparent or completely empty in your case. Select and delete as the eraser tool too (when setup accordingly) do remove instead completely here, aka will give you the transparency you are looking for.

[inityaff]

Thanks guys!
So from what I am understanding, doing a selection or clipping path is probably necessary to maintain the product "fidelity" then delete the background, or use blend ranges applied to just the background area. 
Just out of curiosity, if you were starting with an image like this, and wanted to "drop" the background to pure white, is this how you would do it? What would your workflow be if you had 100 images like this? 

[toltec]

37 minutes ago, inityaff said:

Just out of curiosity, if you were starting with an image like this, and wanted to "drop" the background to pure white, is this how you would do it? What would your workflow be if you had 100 images like this? 

Erase white paper.

Apply a Curves layer set to adjust Alpha. Use that to adjust the transparency to clear your residue.

Copy and paste the Curves layer (and any other adjustment layers) into each one of the images.

Tweak if needed.

Only takes a few seconds for each image. 

[inityaff]

8 minutes ago, toltec said:

Erase white paper.

Apply a Curves layer set to Alpha. Use that to adjust the transparency to clear your residue.

Copy and paste the Curves layer (and any other adjustment layers) into each one of the images.

Tweak if needed.

Only takes a few seconds for each image.

I'm playing with this method now, but am not sure how to make the adjustment in curves>alpha. Can you elaborate or explain how you would manipulate the curve?

[toltec]

6 minutes ago, inityaff said:

I'm playing with this method now, but am not sure how to make the adjustment in curves>alpha. Can you elaborate or explain how you would manipulate the curve?

Set it to Alpha, click on Picker, click on the transparent area of the image and drag down. That sets a point on the Graph for you.

[inityaff]

Thanks, all of you.  I appreciate the helpful replies.