Non destructive everything: Focus merge, HDR merge, Focus Stack, Panorama, Tone Mapping.

[cosmical]

Non destructive everything:  Focus merge (with masked layers and possibility to go back "merge persona"), HDR merge (back to "hdr persona"),  Focus Stack (already non destructive),  Panorama (with masked layers and back to "panorama persona"), Tone Mapping persona etc.

[Steps]

+1

Affinity Photo already is better than PSE in that regard that is has "live filters" for unsharp masks and such what I find a great feature. So why stop there?

I hate having to duplicate a image in PSE just to apply sharpening or blur.

[John Rostron]

On 10/2/2018 at 4:29 PM, cosmical said:

Non destructive everything:  Focus merge (with masked layers and possibility to go back "merge persona"), HDR merge (back to "hdr persona"),  Focus Stack (already non destructive),  Panorama (with masked layers and back to "panorama persona"), Tone Mapping persona etc.

It seems to me that these are already non-destructive in that the original files are not changed at all. What would be a more appropriate request (which has already been made) is that we could call up one of these stack operations for a set of already loaded files (or indeed already stacked files). This would allow the user to apply their own masks as the OP desires.

John

[Steps]

24 minutes ago, John Rostron said:

It seems to me that these are already non-destructive in that the original files are not changed at all.

I'm a bit confused. What has this to do with the original files?

What I think the OP means is that even in Photo 1.7 for example you need to select a Pixel layer before going to tone mapping.

If you're done with the tone mapping all the changes are applied to this Pixel layer. This is a destructive operation.

If you don't want that you have to duplicate the Pixel layer before that.

The question is why the tone mapping settings are not also a "live filter".
The good thing about the live filters is that you don't need to duplicate Pixel layers that get modified.

The live filters are one major awesome thing that Affinity Photo can do that Photoshop is not capable of - at least PSE 12 is not.

[John Rostron]

46 minutes ago, Steps said:

 I'm a bit confused. What has this to do with the original files?

I was referring to Focus Merging, HDR and Panoramas, as mentioned by the OP. In none of these, are the original files  modified. Sorry to confuse you. I should have made it more explicit.

John

[Steps]

3 hours ago, John Rostron said:

I was referring to Focus Merging, HDR and Panoramas, as mentioned by the OP. In none of these, are the original files  modified.

I think this not what the OP meant. In the Panorama case it's not the question that the original files used for that stay untouched. This is a matter of course.

To me it becomes clear what the OP could mean if I take a look how Panorama works in Affinity Photo compared to Photoshop Elements Photomerge.

In Photo you choose some files for your Panorama and the output of this tool just a new Pixel layer.

If you use the the PS Photomerge tooling the output is a bunch of layers. Each image stays the way it was, but it's layer is automaticly transformed and the relevant part of it to the whole Panorama is visible trough a generated mask. This is where I would see that you can argue that the original input is applied non-destructive. I could imagine that this is meant by a "Panorama Persona" the OP mentioned.

For Panoramas both, PS and Photo, are pretty bad. In my case the result of Photo contains a lot of errors and Photoshop takes an enternity to calculate the Panorama and also has errors. So I won't bother for Panoramas as I would recommend everybody to stick to Microsoft ICE for that matter.

I did not try Focus Merging or HDR. So I don't know how they are destructive and could be changed.

I just wanted to support the OPs case: "Make everything you can non-destructive, always".

Live filters somehow tell me, that Serif is already underway here.

[altae]

Yes, please. Use layers and masks where appropriate (e.g. focus stacking) and where it's not possible to use layers give us other means of returning to the previous step in order to fix errors and improve the result (e.g. HDR and the panorama tool).

[cosmical]

Like most understood - i meant that AP generate new pixel layer - when PS generate new project with multiple layers with masks (and make possible to re-mask these selected areas and layers later - no need to go back panorama persona and develop / generate image from start by jumping from persona to persona this would be handy for small and fast fix/retouch issues - when fast fixes can be made directly in photo persona by selection right layer and mask).

And I agree that AP and PS panorama merge isn't as good as Microsoft's ICE or Kolor's Autopano - but I hope it will be someday.
I really hope everything will be non-destructive - no matter what process - possiblity to go back in tone mapping persona and change everything just like in the first time even better if user can add tone map layers.. well maybe persona layers would be bad idea? But non-destructive: when focus stacked or panorama sticthed image is generated by AP - it should generate layer image (if user select non-destructive workflow/stitching) -> if non-destructive is selected then generated sticthed image should have all images (layers) with masks for later mask processing if somehting need to be fixed or changed for some reason. Focus stacking should generate also final image with sticthed images with masks  - those masks could be used to generate depth map (even better if Affinity could generate it automatically - depth map)

But something innovating should be done for these projects where panorama or focus stacking includes thousands of photos - some kind of "smart layer" like group layer (something like smart group in PS but not that complex) - some kind of way to open that one layer with multiple layers and collapse it back when user is ready - and when needed - go back to that layer and expand its hierarchy again - but something more than just expanding and collapsing a hierarchy - what it should be, i don't know. Not yet. i will tell if i get some idea.

[cosmical]

At the moment (still in 1.x) it is possible to use soruces in clone stamp tool after merging (focus, hdr, panorama) but i think there should be also option to generate project with layers and masks (for better / more flexible / easier way to improve masking / continue masks by manually  - and if affinity photo generates depth maps - generating grey color image layers from depth map data would make it handy for controlling depth effects (btw. dof / detph of field effect should have some grey scale control for blur bias) / filters and for controlling alpha/opacity generating more interesting effects for focus merged/stacked images/compositing  -   http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/helicon-focus-for-basic-focus-stacking/  http://cdn.northlight-images.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/depth-map.jpg  )

https://youtu.be/ifWPtCQIGX0?t=317 like photoshop workflow - non-destructive layer based compositing from focus merging/stacking. Also that auto content-aware/inpainting would be nice option and seamless colors/tone select option (even better if this could be done also non-destructive way - some how close / hide seamless colors/tones from some layer option -> for example, generating two version: color corrected and original layers in separate groups).

Also raw developer/liquid/tone mapping should be non-destructive but that is different topic.

[Fixx]

Noticed stack function does not support PSD files. That should be added.