Page Setup

[Alan9940]

OMG...I'm perplexed, confused, amazed, and even dumbfounded...

 

Someone, please correct me if I'm wrong. I wanted to print a landscape image on my Epson 3880 today and was totally confused when I couldn't find a Page Setup dialog to direct my landscape oriented image to print landscape on the page! I went through all the menu items, but couldn't find anything related to Page Setup (I would expect it to be on the File menu.) Am I missing something? Didn't we have Page Setup for output going back as far as the Commodore 64? ;)

 

Best regards,

AlanH

[billtils]

Alan - that is my one and only gripe with AP.  There is no printer UI in the sense that Aperture, Photoshop/LR etc have one.  What you get when you try to print directly from AP is determined by what you defined in Document set up and the image size.   I posted a "please fix it" and received a reply that more or less said OK, but there are things we want to deal with before that.  

 

I got round it by setting AP as the external editor in Aperture and round-tripping from there and back for editing.  That keeps my library current and lets me use the Aperture print interface.  There is a drawback in that to do it directly means that the image sent to AP is a TIFF file.  If you want to work on a RAW file you have to use File > Export > Original and then when finished editing in AP, File > Share > Add to Aperture which adds the image as a new project.

[Alan9940]

@billtils

 

Thanks for the validation that I'm not simply loosing my mind! :D I use external RAW converters to do initial processing, and then send a TIFF file to AP for further post-processing so my file dimension, PPI, etc, is pretty much already set. Yeah, it would be nice to change PPI on the fly like Image>Image Size in PS, but I could learn to live without it. I know that I could export my edited file and bring it into some other editor or LR or...to print, but...DANG...a Page Setup command is pretty basic! C'mon, how could anyone call a photo editor even a basic editor, let alone professional editor (read PS replacement), without a basic thing like dictating that I want my image printed in portrait or landscape mode? I'm not expecting a fully realized print UI such as Print Options in PhotoLine, but I'd like to be able to print from AP. As it stands now, I really can't! I really, really, r-e-a-l-l-y hope this changes...

 

Best regards,

AlanH

[Andy Somerfield]

Hello guys,

 

We've had similar complaints to this for Designer - our apps just present whatever document you have to the OS X printer driver, and it lays them up how it sees fit. Most of the Designer users who had problems found that they could make the corrections they required in the Print dialog, and it all ended well..

 

I'm not saying we don't have some issues / missing functionality here - I'm just trying to get a handle on exactly what we are missing..

 

Thanks,

 

Andy.

[billtils]

Andy, the intimacies of what OS X and AP do with images to take them from screen to paper are well beyond me, but I can describe the issue very simply:  

 

If I use any of the other photo editing programs that I have (Pixelmator, Aperture, Nikon ViewNX 2, and, in the case of LR, have recently trialled) they all have a reasonably comprehensive print UI that lets the user set up the page (printer to be used, paper size and orientation) and print conditions (confirm the printer to be used, select colour handling, select print quality, select paper type at a minimum).   This is totally missing in AP, and, to put it gently but plainly, detracts sufficiently from a first rate app to make it too much of a hassle for many of those (us) who would otherwise see it as a hands down winner as an Aperture replacement / Adobe beater.

 

Not trying to get you to drop everything and do something about this right now, but if it's not in the release version it'll very sadly have to be one of the others that is permanently parked in my Launchpad.

 

Cheers (and thanks for all the really, really, good things in AP  :) )

 

 

Bill

[Alan9940]

Hello Andy,

 

I have no idea how folks work with Designer or what their needs are for output, but please allow me to explain how I believe most photographers (certainly this photographer) work with images intended for web presentation or paper output.

 

1) Some way to modify the pixel density without interpolation of the image is necessary; for example, AP's Document>Resize Document dialog should allow me to change from 300 PPI to 240 PPI without actually resampling the image. I know that I can get acceptable prints using anything from 240 - 360 PPI and if I sent a 300 PPI file to AP and want my print to be  slightly larger, than I know I can change it to 240 PPI and still get good quality. Currently, there is no way that I know of to make this change in AP.

 

2) There should be a basic Page Setup dialog that allows me to specify paper size and orientation (landscape/portrait.)

 

3) I'm really not sure what's going on with this last issue... Normally, when working with an image editor such as PS if I send a small image (say, 5x7) to the printer driver whereby I've specified an 8.5 x 11 paper size, the image is centered by default because a checkbox is set to center the image. However, I can uncheck that box and move the image anywhere I need it on the page. Many folks print greeting cards exactly this way; the image is moved where needed allowing the paper to be folded in half. Currently, since I have no way to specify paper size I can't tell if the driver is simply not responding as expected, since my image appears in the driver as if I am printing borderless.

 

To be honest and to speak frankly, with all the thought I've seen put into the development of AP I'm shocked that printing from the application is not more flushed out! Many, many photographers print their images and, as AP stands today, another application will be needed for printing. IMO that's really bad and will reflect poorly on the great product that I anticipate AP becoming when it's released.

 

I cannot begin to express how strongly I feel about the lack of printing facility in this application. I really hope others on this board agree and campaign hard to get this resolved.

 

Thank you for allowing me to express my opinions.

 

Best regards,

AlanH

[Leftshark]

Most of the Designer users who had problems found that they could make the corrections they required in the Print dialog, and it all ended well..

 

I'm not saying we don't have some issues / missing functionality here - I'm just trying to get a handle on exactly what we are missing..

When you say "Most of the Designer users..." I wonder what about the rest of them.

 

I agree with Bill and AlanH. For the last 30 years, the OS X Page Setup dialog box has told the Print dialog box which printer is selected and which paper size is selected, among other things. Many of the features have migrated to the OS X Print dialog, but not all of them. Some of the missing ones are useful to photographers.

 

Some other current OS X applications do not have a Page Setup command in the menus, but in those applications it is not a problem. Why? Because they instead provide the functionality in the Print dialog box, so you can still choose a different paper size. Examples of these applications include Safari and Photoshop. Safari makes sure Paper Size is present in Print, while Photoshop includes a Page Setup button in Print so you can get the entire standard OS X Page Setup dialog box.

 

The above is the bare minimum that is required. Choosing a paper size informs the Print dialog box not only about the paper size, but the available print margins, and with some photo printers, in Page Setup you choose a paper size that also sets the paper input (sheet feeder, front feed, rear feed, roll feed...). Unless I can't find it, those are currently things Affinity Photo can't do.

 

Beyond the bare minimum are the features that truly professional photo editors have: XY positioning of the print within the available printable area, print scaling, flipping, negative, and maybe a soft proof preview. I really appreciate the detail and control that Photoshop and Lightroom provide in their print interfaces. I would expect Affinity to provide a comparable level of power and control, in a sleeker and hopefully simpler and more interactive way.

 

And if you're wondering why this is so important, it's because printing is not free. Whether you are paying the high costs of inks and photo papers at home, or trying to output to a high-end printer for an important client, every screwed up print job costs money, and the bigger the job the more money you waste on prints that did not come out as expected. The reason I appreciate the print controls in Photoshop & LR is because if you do it right you can almost completely anticipate how your print is going to come out, get the print right the first time, and avoid wasting money on prints you had to throw away!

 

A 17x22 sheet of exhibition quality photo paper can cost $5. Right now the problem with Affinity is you have to trust that Affinity is going to do the right thing when it prints, and if Affinity gets it wrong, that's money out of your pocket. You could blow more money on a single bad print than you would on a trip to the coffee shop for a sip and a snack.

[Pete123]

I found this thread when searching for printing options, and I want to add my vote for more robust printing features.

 

I do lot's of large format printing on a HP z3100 44" printer, and I have currently finished a job entirely in Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo, yet I find myself incapable of printing it.

I'm now exporting everything to tiff & pdf to open it in other applications just to print it.

 

The standard OS X print dialog is sufficient for pages, numbers, office type applications, but it really falls short for any designer related print work.

For years I have used Photoshop, Lightroom and Acrobat (for vector work) to print as they are the gold standard.

 

 

All the info requested above is right on the mark, so no need for me to repeat.

[carbmac]

I'm adding my vote... Can't change paper orientation (unless it's too early in the morning for me and I'm not looking in the right places..) is a real issue.

[LilleG]

Add another vote for a decent Page Set-Up under Print.  

[toyotadesigner]

One solution: Print the document -> Open PDF in Preview (bottom left -> PDF) and specify your page size there. It works like a charm.

 

If needed, you can change the document size in AP and crop the image to the correct aspect ratio before you print. 

 

With this workflow I'm sending my images to my printer RIP which takes care of color and paper profiles, resolution, etc.

[Andy Somerfield]

Hi,

 

Just to keep everyone in the loop, so to speak - we're in the process of revamping the print dialog, to implement many features described in this thread - as soon as it's ready to be tested, it will make its way into a beta build :)

 

Andy.

[billtils]

Thanks for the encouraging update Andy.

[carbmac]

Brilliant !  Thank you :)