toltec Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 2 minutes ago, R C-R said: If historic presidents were ignored, New definitely should but both Open & Place also require 'additional information" (the location of the file to open or place) so they should too. Of course, ignoring historic presidents is not easily done. Consider for instance one of the worst possible, least descriptive names for a graphics tool ever devised, the "magic wand" that from a modern 21st century perspective is a ridiculous, childish name. But how often do you see anybody refer to the Affinity tool as the "Flood Select Tool," a far more descriptive name? And don't even mention Lasso. Oh, I see you didn't Quote Windows PCs. Photo and Designer, latest non-beta versions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toltec Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 Should we report New and About as bug reports then? We can give Serif the benefit of the doubt for Open and Place Quote Windows PCs. Photo and Designer, latest non-beta versions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lepr Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfred Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 5 minutes ago, owenr said: Lol, it would be unethical of me to not correct misinformation on the Web lepr and Gary_F 2 Quote Alfred Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 2 for Windows • Windows 10 Home/Pro Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 2 for iPad • iPadOS 17.4.1 (iPad 7th gen) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lepr Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toltec Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 4 hours ago, owenr said: Having any two documents open uses more resources than having just one of these documents open, so what is there to be especially wary of when the two documents contain similar content? Doesn't it seem most likely that Duplicate isn't in the apps because the developers either didn't consider it or they've given it a low priority because we can work around its absence while they implement/fix other things we cannot easily work around? Could it be about good working practices? Affinity are very keen on working non-destructively. Keeping cropped areas. Live Filter Layers, Snapshots, Save History with Document, Autosave etc. I think it is good to embrace the working practices of new software and new ideas. Rather than be stuck in Photoshop mode. If you make a Duplicate into memory alone and don't save it, that is a disaster just waiting to happen! Computer crash, software crash, power failure and the work is gone. There is absolutely no need to make a duplicate in Photo if you just want to make a few experimental changes, that is the purpose of Snapshots. There are not the memory issues of having two documents open in RAM either, especially if one can't save. If you like both versions, create a new document from the snapshot and you have both versions. If you really want to work on a duplicate version just go File > Save as... (obviously save the original first) and save it with a name, you are immediately working on a duplicate document in (almost) total safely. Photo will now save it every 300 seconds as you are working. If you want the original just go File > Open Recent and there it is. In a firm I worked for (decades ago) if you lost more than a few minutes work due to a computer crash, they would give you a warning. Do it twice and they would fire you. Quote Windows PCs. Photo and Designer, latest non-beta versions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lepr Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toltec Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 18 minutes ago, owenr said: Nothing would prevent the user from saving the duplicate; the duplicate would be a regular document. I don't think you understand the Affinity apps' crash recovery system (the 300 seconds thing). It works regardless of whether the document has ever been saved by the user, and it can do that because it does not update the user's file at a regular interval. What it does at the regular interval has been explained many times in this forum. Oh, you're right, I didn't understand that. That's actually rather clever . I very particular when it comes to saving. (I never got fired) and in the early days or using Macs they crashed a lot. Boing noises still fill me with dread and don't even mention Windows 95. I've not seen Autosave mentioned, but then I haven't read every single topic on the forum and never needed to find out. I will look it up though. Thanks. Quote Windows PCs. Photo and Designer, latest non-beta versions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R C-R Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 8 minutes ago, owenr said: Nothing would prevent the user from saving the duplicate; the duplicate would be a regular document. Just curious, but would you want a duplicate function in Affinity to open a second window or tab with the copy so both versions are visible on screen simultaneously (sort of like TextEdit & some other apps do) or do something different? If so, should it inherit the default name of the original, perhaps with "copy" appended to that (also like TextEdit) or something else? Personally, I don't care for Apple's (or I suppose anybody else's similar) implementation of the Duplicate function -- like toltec I am "old school" enough that I want everything saved to disk ASAP -- but I get that other users might find some implementation useful. Quote All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V2.4.1 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7 Affinity Photo 1.10.8; Affinity Designer 1.108; & all 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anon1 Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 12 hours ago, R C-R said: If it did, it would most likely significantly increase the amount of memory the app needed, causing a lot of paging to VM on systems without lots of RAM installed, which in turn would adversely affect performance. I do not know if this is why such a feature has not been implemented but it is something to consider. You do not understand what VM is and constantly build up strawmans (and contradict yourself _ ap uses less memory, ap would need too much memory _) you do not Page to VM VM is always used to make ram usage more efficient and programmers life easier by reducing fragmentation and avoiding memory limits Maybe think about being a bit more restrictive throwing around terms and thoughts from a pure workflow point of view: Duplicate makes more sense because you can duplicate and then later decide to save with „save“ shortcut using „save as“ you can only save and then decide to delete the file, but it has already been saved ...both have a certain advantage depending on if you tend to save or tend to discard changes ...another option though would be to make snapshots faster/ completely accessible using keyboard shortcuts to allow quick experiments (much like using git where a new branch requires no wasted/duplicated memory) but maybe that would still leave something desired for s former PS user? I don‘t know. the devleopers probably just are not aware, there is no such thing as memory or processing power difficulties in a two year old app most of the times the developers are either busy or not aware, there are very! rare occasions where hardware/ software is the limit another part which shows that processing power/ Hardware/ concurrency is not even completely utilised is this: (by utilised I do not mean that my processor is idle but that AP puts constraints on my workflow that are imposed by the developers and not by the hardware) If you export a picture using the file> export the whole UI is locked up and one can not modify other pictures clearly not a constraint of my pc as I can have AP and APbeta running alongside without issue while one is exporting something and the other working just fine cheers lepr 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R C-R Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 7 minutes ago, toltec said: I've not seen Autosave mentioned, but then I haven't read every single topic on the forum and never needed to find out. I will look it up though. Basically, it is a crash recovery feature -- open documents are periodically saved to a temp file (but not exactly in the native file format). If the app closes normally, they are discarded. If it crashes, you get a one-time option to reopen the saved version(s) on the next launch of the app. Quote All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V2.4.1 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7 Affinity Photo 1.10.8; Affinity Designer 1.108; & all 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lepr Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toltec Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 Just now, R C-R said: Basically, it is a crash recovery feature -- open documents are periodically saved to a temp file (but not exactly in the native file format). If the app closes normally, they are discarded. If it crashes, you get a one-time option to reopen the saved version(s) on the next launch of the app. Oh, thanks. Not as clever as I thought then. Certainly no substitute for saving the files properly. There is no substitute for a good working practice. Quote Windows PCs. Photo and Designer, latest non-beta versions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toltec Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 2 minutes ago, owenr said: Affinity apps do not have autosaving to the user's file. See what R-C R wrote a moment ago. thanks Quote Windows PCs. Photo and Designer, latest non-beta versions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R C-R Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 14 minutes ago, MBd said: you do not Page to VM I do not claim to understand all the nuances but I do know that OS X is constantly juggling memory & VM objects (as described here) to make the most efficient use of RAM for all the processes running on the computer, not just for apps like Affinity. I do not think this is an appropriate place to discuss how the pagers, the Working Set Detection Subsystem, & the other VM related subsystems accomplish this, nor anything users need to concern themselves with. I just wanted to point out that application memory efficiency affects overall system performance, & that the Affinity apps are excellent in that respect, much better than PS. Quote All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V2.4.1 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7 Affinity Photo 1.10.8; Affinity Designer 1.108; & all 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lepr Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 . anon1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R C-R Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 19 minutes ago, owenr said: So why on earth were you positing that the devs might not want to provide a Duplicate command because it would encourage user's to increase the app's burden on system memory? Because that is what PS does. Quote All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V2.4.1 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7 Affinity Photo 1.10.8; Affinity Designer 1.108; & all 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anon1 Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 So you are afraid that AP becomes PS performance wise? we are talking just about a shortcut, enhancing workflow and not a brand new option/ any real sort of involving implementation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lepr Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R C-R Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 1 minute ago, MBd said: we are talking just about a shortcut, enhancing workflow and not a brand new option/ any real sort of involving implementation I am not really sure what we are talking about from an implementation perspective, which is why I asked for details about that. Do you have any thoughts on that? 5 minutes ago, owenr said: AP is not PS! Exactly. Quote All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V2.4.1 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7 Affinity Photo 1.10.8; Affinity Designer 1.108; & all 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lepr Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R C-R Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 Just now, owenr said: So, are you next going to suggest AP should not be able to create documents because PS does create documents, or AP should not be able to open files because PS does open files, or AP should not have a paint brush because PS has a paint brush, etc, etc, etc? In a word, no. I am only suggesting that for several very good reasons maximizing memory efficiency is a priority for the Affinity developers. Quote All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V2.4.1 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7 Affinity Photo 1.10.8; Affinity Designer 1.108; & all 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lepr Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toltec Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 14 minutes ago, owenr said: I hope you don't mind, but I recommend that you find a good self-help course in rational thinking. Your comment reminds me of a line from a movie, "Erin Brokovich" "At this point, I'd settle for charm school!" can't think why? Quote Windows PCs. Photo and Designer, latest non-beta versions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lepr Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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