Bounding boxes and selections and path handling

[Matthias]

When more than one object is selected the indicating bounding box grows accordingly. I must say that I really hate this behavior as it gives me no useful information about what’s going on. It just says that something is selected.

 

I think it would be way better if every selected object showed its own bounding box. This way one could see at a glance what is selected and what not.

 

Also, if you ask me, a path object shouldn’t display it’s bounding box at all, just the path plus the nodes. Looks much cleaner and is much closer to the path object’s essence than the computed rectangle around it. Only when a path is grouped (even without any other element), it would show the bounding box which would then be a visual clue of the element’s different state.

 

By selecting a non-grouped path one would see the path itself and its nodes instead of the dumb bounding box. This bears the additional – big – advantage of moving individual nodes just by clicking on them, all without changing the pointer tool at all. Less clicks – more obviousness – easier learning curve – quicker designing. FreeHand style.

 

Matthias

[Ash]

You're kind of describing selections when you use the node tool?  Not having a bounding box when making selection with the move tool would then lose the handles available for scaling?

 

Incidentally you can double click on an object and it will drill down the group, and ultimately end up with the node tool for editing points.  So double clicking a non-grouped path immediately exposes the nodes as you've described.  If there are two objects in a group, double clicking on one of them will then select that object within the group, double clicking again will swap to node tool for that object to edit points.

 

Generally using A and V short cuts to swap between those two tools helps a lot...

[Matthias]

Hi Ash,

yeah, I see your point here concerning the bezier object view.

As you can see in my other post on Frame text in bezier shapes the bounding box view of a bezier shape does not help. I think for this object type it would be possible to get rid of one double click without distracting consistency. The scaling problem you mentioned would then be solved by grouping or by manual input – which should have its place in the transform palette (but this is another topic).

 

As for the other bounding box issue described (one bounding box indicating several objects): what do you think of a visible bounding box for every selected object?

[Ash]

I see the reasoning, but does cause problems again with things like scaling/rotation/shearing (not sure how dragging a corner of one object's bounding box in a multiple selection would affect the scaling of the others for example), but also looking at an objects position in the transform tab.  Most commonly an object's (or multiple selection of objects) position is set at the top left position of it's bounding box.

 

Think it's probably a bit too fundamental!

[Matthias]

I see your point concerning the bezier shape’s selection appearance.

 

Concerning the compound bounding box of a multiple-elements-selection I’d like to show you an example. You just can’t tell which elements are selected in this picture …

[Ash]

Well actually you can - the selected objects have a blue line around them (in the case of the line the curve is highlighted blue) though there could be an argument that's too subtle I guess!  Incidentally the colour of that highlight (in this case blue) is the colour associated with the layer - if you right click on a layer you can change the colour of any layer...

[Matthias]

Dear Ash, I’d like to give an example proving my point that the bounding box is distracting and why it is even more distracting to have it growing with the selections instead of showing four little non-distracting points for every selected object (as FreeHand does).

 

I understand that affinity loves the rotation “lolly” but at least I would gladly do without it in favor of a cleaner look at what I am actually doing.

[Matthias]

And why-oh-why do I have to double-click a path first in order to see the very essence it is made of? When I click on a path element I want to see the nodes 99 times out of 100, not an overkill bounding box with four lines, eight 3D-ish circle elements for resizing plus a rotation thingy.

 

I would even like to be able to select individual nodes after having selected a path (or more paths). All without changing tools because it is not necessary if done right.

[MattP]

Hi Matthias,

 

I understand completely what you're saying and I genuinely want to make you happy - I really do value your input greatly and you're an extremely valuable member here. Please don't think that we're trying to ignore or be unreceptive - I've tried to implement pretty much everything you've mentioned so far, but... you could just zoom in a bit so the selection isn't so tiny? And, yes, in each of those cases where you mention not being able to tell what's selected, I can tell - the bottom left to top right line is selected (the wireframe blue line is visible) and the outer circle is selected in the last image as the bounding box shows us the size of the object.

 

Nodes being selectable in the Move Tool (and not just the Node Tool) means that you have to sacrifice something to do with general purpose selection dragging/transforming... So I have a selected curve, it shows me the nodes - how do I drag the curve somewhere different? I can't drag the curve because it would modify the curve segment I hit (or is that function only supposed to be allowed in the Node Tool?), I can't drag the nodes because it would select and move them, and I can't drag off the curve to move the selection around because that would start a marquee node selection (again, is that function only supposed to be allowed in the Node Tool?) There are lots of pros and cons for everything...

 

I do have Freehand MX now and have been using it - I agree it does a lot of things well, but I genuinely am much more productive in Affinity Designer... This is because I know how it works and am comfortable in it. You are obviously in the reverse position to myself, coming to Designer from Freehand so are seeing the things that are different as negatives, but I would argue that little handles generally around the selected area without any frame can also be hard to use depending on the geometry of the shapes involved - shapes don't always fill their area, so checking to see which handle is attached to which object is awkward (for me, at least). I certainly do not get along with multi-selections showing each object's bounds with little handles - it looks extremely cluttered with a large selection, plus I can't resize them all at once - I have to group them first which is insane because it completely destroys any hierarchy I had in place. I'm not trying to be awkward, I'm just trying to suggest that it depends on your perspective what you view as desirable.

 

I'll definitely continue to think on things though :)

Matt

[Matthias]

So I have a selected curve, it shows me the nodes - how do I drag the curve somewhere different? I can't drag the curve because it would modify the curve segment I hit (or is that function only supposed to be allowed in the Node Tool?)

 

You could drag the curve because the curve segment would only be modifiable by alt-dragging … basically the node tool would not be necessary to do basic modifications a paths.

[Matthias]

Hey Matt,

please forgive my nagging. The point I was trying to make is of course not a case of right or wrong but one of preference. You correctly identified mine as a make-it-work-as-closely-as-possible-like-FreeHand-does preference, which is certainly not everyone’s cup of tea.

 

Believe me, I never was as happy with a new vector app as I am now with Designer. It is just the fact that you guys are so unbelievably responsive and that the occasion here is a historical one that keeps me trying to push things in “my” direction. You obviously reflect very carefully what you are doing, so just do it your way and I will be perfectly happy – especially since there are so many more requests being considered by Affinity and so many more little features already in the pipeline.

 

Best,

Matthias

[MattP]

:)

[Matthias]

Sorry, but I have to come back to the bounding box thing one more time.

 

I get it that you want to avoid clutter by not showing every selected object’s own bounding box and instead show one big box containing all selected elements. However, it should be possible nonetheless to see what is selected and what not.

 

Art text does not stay highlighted in any way when more than one element is selected. This way you cannot tell whether “Text 2” is selected or not.

[MattP]

Yes, I noticed Art Text is incorrect too - I think it's probably something I've messed up, so we'll fix it :) It's only Art Text that's broken though, and all other objects act as they should (to the best of my knowledge)