A.Photo: Locking layer doesn't lock it

[Tormy]

1 hour ago, Pšenda said:

Therefore, this function is also represented by the "lock" symbol. Other functions that only lock/disable partial operations have a different icon.

Exactly!

[Ron P.]

Whoa 😳 I didn't know this. A locked layer can be moved using the Alignment.

Tormy's Post revealing this.

So how is it Locked? I done, what I do when such questions arise. I research.

From the Online Help for AP, Layers Panel

Quote

Lock/Unlock—Click to lock or unlock selected items to prevent accidental selection and transformation.

Accidental, is where, I think, they will use to counter the Align tools being able to move objects. Using the Align tools, it's not accidental, it's intentional. Words matter. However they can do much better by having the feature Lock, do just what every human on this planet, except those that regurgitate things that make no sense but someone told them that's the way it's suppose to work.

Hey I got another idea for a tangent.....;)

 

[R C-R]

2 hours ago, Pšenda said:

It doesn't work that way.

Not sure what you mean. Yes, you can select a parent of a locked layer on the canvas & that will allow you to move/rotate/scale the parent object & anything in it, locked or not, but why would you want that to not affect its locked children?

[R C-R]

3 minutes ago, Ron P. said:

Accidental, is where, I think, they will use to counter the Align tools being able to move objects. Using the Align tools, it's not accidental, it's intentional.

Context also matters. The context of the help topic is the Layers panel. So lock a layer, deselect it on the Layers panel & try to select it on the canvas to align it. Can you do that?

[Ron P.]

1 hour ago, R C-R said:

Context also matters. The context of the help topic is the Layers panel. So lock a layer, deselect it on the Layers panel & try to select it on the canvas to align it. Can you do that?

That's just a lame argument. You then must think Lock does not mean Lock? To debate that side, you have to. It's already been demonstrated objects can be moved using the Align tool, so it's position is not Locked.

[R C-R]

20 minutes ago, Ron P. said:

It's already been demonstrated objects can be moved using the Align tool, so it's position is not Locked.

Did you try what I suggested? On the canvas, can you select a locked layer that is not already selected in the Layers Panel & use the align options to change its position?

[R C-R]

This debate could go on forever but the bottom line remains the same: it is up to the user to learn how the features of the app work. This includes if any assumptions they have made about how other apps work are correct.

[Tormy]

1 hour ago, R C-R said:

This debate could go on forever but the bottom line remains the same: it is up to the user to learn how the features of the app work. This includes if any assumptions they have made about how other apps work are correct.

It' sup to the user till a certain extent. And when the user discover that there is a big crap like this, is also up to the user to tell things to the "crapper".
If they didn't meant a real Lock they had to create something else, different graphics/label/name as Adobe did (Are Adobe's devs smarter than the Serif's devs?)

And it's also up the the Devs do not create pitfalls like this. It's not an open source software where devs are working in the free time. This is a payd package and it must adhere to a specific standards, especially with basic communication like this.
"LOCK" as indicated and named, worldwide means: do not admit any action on the locked item.

Any other endeavour to tell the opposite, is really silly.

I hope in the next future they introduce the real LOCK or multiple Lock levels like for Adobe. In other words: more consistent and strong than what's now.

[cas_s]

Something similar was already mentioned, but I don’t consider it my responsibility to check if a basic function doesn’t do what it does, and has done for years, in every single other application. It’s especially egregious people rely on Lock to protect work from accidental, irreversible destruction - but here it lets you accidentally, irreversibly destroy your work without even a warning. And letting you draw on hidden layers? Not good.

It’s like if you add a layer and oh, a layer is just a drafting aid, everything’s actually on a single layer. Or hit Save and oh, Save only saves your workspace settings, file changes are gone. It was your responsibility to read the entire manual to verify what Layer and Save meant. Come on. I generally like Affinity so far, but these are real flaws. 

[R C-R]

1 hour ago, Tormy said:

It' sup to the user till a certain extent. And when the user discover that there is a big crap like this, is also up to the user to tell things to the "crapper".

And has been mentioned many, many times the place to do that is in the Feedback forum, not here in the Questions forum!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Tormy]

1 hour ago, R C-R said:

And has been mentioned many, many times the place to do that is in the Feedback forum, not here in the Questions forum!!!!!!!!!!!!

it is what it is. I read NOW that "has been mentioned many, many times the place to do that is in the Feedback forum" and however all the discussion belongs to my initial post. So it's also natural that the development of the argument is here.
What I see also, is that probably in the same "Feedback forum" other ones years ao lamented the same things but as I see, it served to nothing. So what's the goal to go there when the post is here?

It seems that no one of Serif is considering this as an issue to solve once forever and quite quickly as well .. may I answer "it's a feature"? 

On top of this: great that after 3 days we are discussing here (form Saturday) and you also participated to this thread, you didn't invite all of use to go there ... but you even joined almost as defensive lawyer fo Serif 😄 

[J3rM]

On 9/9/2024 at 4:07 PM, Tormy said:

There is not any design. There is not a real lock function. Full stop!

When you lock ANYTHING it's because you want to prevent any further modification to the/into the locked layer. Not because you no want to select it into the canvas only.

It means that when you are working and also erroneously you select that specific layer, you want to be impeded to modify it.

This IS the way to work on ANY software that has layering to protect your own work.

To lock a layer clearly means to everybody really works with these kind of software: keep this layer untouchable at any level.

It is true on any

Video editor
On any CAD
On any DAW
On any Photo editor (but Affinity)
On any Vectorial editor (but affinity)
...
...

On ANY software that has the LOCK functionality (feature): but Affinity

Hence the implementation of the Lock in Affinity is highly superficial, it's inducing the users into the mistake I have made. Put your soul in peace (as we use to say): It's literally out-of-any-standard!
Badly implemented

Badly indicated
Badly described
Referred only to topics and threads (with ppl that is lamenting the bad, and poor implementation of the Lock)

Really not up to any industry standard. 

As I said several times, this "lock" is NOT a feature (as Serif wants as to believe), it's a crap or it's a blatant uncacapiblity form the dev side to implement it as is should.

How can Affinity Photo not see that this is completely valid. If I LOCK a layer that means I want there to be no chance that I accidentally modify that layer. A Lock means it is LOCKED, not sort of locked. Sampling from that layer should still be allowed as you are not modifying that layer, but the way the lock is implemented here is completely useless. Seriously Affinity, this is completely counter intuitive!

 

 

 

[death by pixel]

On 9/9/2024 at 2:34 PM, R C-R said:

As has been mentioned multiple times in various posts over the years, the lock in Affinity only prevents users from selecting the locked layer on the canvas. They have not unreasonably decided that if a user selects a locked layer on the Layer panel, it must be because they must want to do something to it; otherwise, why select it there?

Just like you can accidentally select something in the canvas, you can also accidentally select something in the layer panel. 

On 9/9/2024 at 12:07 AM, R C-R said:

BTW, the most often requested lock option is not to change the way this works but to add a full lock option so users can choose which one they prefer.

That would be a step in the right direction. But the type of lock should be communicated to the user by the icon, like PS does: lock symbol means full lock.

[Nichosen]

Any progress in this matter?

Lock still doesn't work as expected.

If it's hard to fix... just rename the function and replace the icon... a question mark might be suitable :)

[R C-R]

4 hours ago, Nichosen said:

Any progress in this matter?

No.