How to prevent vector tears/holes when joining shapes?

[TravisL]

When joining shapes with the Geometry panel (e.g. Union), sometimes they will create inexplicable "tears" or "holes" which sometimes can take some time to go in and manually fix. This seems to happen more at areas where strokes join and start again. The image below is an obvious example but sometimes they can be smaller and less obvious.

Does anyone have some advice or how to avoid this - and if it isn't something that can be avoided, can there be a fix for it in future? I once spent 20 minutes fixing little tears like this where strokes were overlapping on a detailed illustration. Time that could be better spent doing something else.

Thank you. 🙂

[moonlightflower]

I hope someone has a solution. I have the same problem.

[R C-R]

I'm not quite sure what you mean by Geometry panel, or which Affinity app & version you are using, but maybe if you post a simple example file with this problem it would help make things clearer.

[TravisL]

Hi R C-R, this is the Geometry panel and what I mean by Union is called Add in Affinity Designer (first button) to join two shapes/curves together. I'm using the most recent version (V2) 2.4 and I saw this issue in version 2.3. Not sure if it's something that would have been fixed for 2.4.

 

[R C-R]

5 minutes ago, TravisL said:

Hi R C-R, this is the Geometry panel and what I mean by Union is called Add in Affinity Designer (first button) to join two shapes/curves together. I'm using the most recent version (V2) 2.4 and I saw this issue in version 2.3. Not sure if it's something that would have been fixed for 2.4.

 

Please post an example file with this issue.

[TravisL]

Sorry for the delay getting the file. It was a client project under NDA so I had to remove the rest of the illustration to isolate the example.

So it looks like the tear is appearing when selecting Expand Stroke and this error is still present in version 2.4. It seems to be because of a "curl" or "twist" in the line. But the thing is I don't want this to happen. When I select Expand Stroke it should ignore little kinks in the vector line and just render as it is on screen a black line as I see it or merge it as a shape as if Union was selected.

There are additional tears that I've attached screenshots of that appear all alone the line (keep in mind this is a single stroke, these tears shouldn't be happening IMO). These kinds of things appear all over my vector illustrations, it's a pretty big problem because fixing them takes a lot of time.

Vector-tear-example-2024-04-10-v01.afdesign

[firstdefence]

This is not entirely an Affinity issue, sometimes the strokes can have malformed nodes where the node handles are crossed over or you have more than one node in very close proximity to each other as seen in the screenshots below.

[TravisL]

@firstdefense the smaller tears don't have additional nodes as far as I can tell so there is still an issue with how Affinity is expanding the stroke

[Old Bruce]

10 hours ago, TravisL said:

@firstdefense the smaller tears don't have additional nodes as far as I can tell so there is still an issue with how Affinity is expanding the stroke

The additional/coincident nodes would be present on the original stroke, not the expanded version.

[firstdefence]

Next example...

You could also click on the sharp node on the context menu in the convert section to remove the node handle, this would do a similar thing and result in a cleaner expand.

You also have a section that joins...

[TravisL]

Thanks, firstdefense, it is good to know there is a point of commonality between all these expand stroke issues.

These lines were all drawn with a Wacom Tablet and the Pencil Tool so these tiny deviations have been added by the tool (maybe in response to my hand movements, but also - it would be better if it never happened in the first place). These extra nodes/handles are also next to impossible to see and easy to miss when expanding the stroke so it would be good if there was a way for Affinity to not make these additional points because it means I have to back and fix them all later.

Do I need to make a separate post in the Feature Request part of the forum or is there a way to cross post there using this thread? Something like a threshold (don't make additional nodes/handles within x radius between a corner) to prevent this from happening. That, or a different way for Expand Stroke to work that has a similar kind of setting (to ignore malform nodes/handles).

[KarinC]

I use expand stroke often. I wouldn't want it to ignore certain nodes. I start with a clean stroke to begin with by going in and cleaning up extra nodes or adding a node or two if handles are overlapping. Having to clean up a stroke made with the pencil tool is just part of vector drawing. It's good practice even if you aren't going to expand the stroke.

[TravisL]

Hi @KarinC, So it's a skill issue on my part, heh, I can accept that.

Still, these nodes are sometimes really hard to see. It would be good if there was some kind of visual indicator when there were nodes close to or overlapping each other so they're easier to find in the first place. If I'm drawing straight from the Wacom the number of points is sometimes going to be uncontrollable, but it would be nice if it was easier to clean up.

 

[KarinC]

7 hours ago, TravisL said:

Hi @KarinC, So it's a skill issue on my part, heh, I can accept that.

Still, these nodes are sometimes really hard to see. It would be good if there was some kind of visual indicator when there were nodes close to or overlapping each other so they're easier to find in the first place. If I'm drawing straight from the Wacom the number of points is sometimes going to be uncontrollable, but it would be nice if it was easier to clean up.

I didn't mean to criticize your skill. Illustrator has a smooth tool which would be really nice to have in Designer. But since we don't have something like that you do have to zoom in and delete piled-up nodes. If you plan to expand a stroke it would probably be better to draw it with the pen tool instead of the pencil tool.

[thomaso]

On 4/10/2024 at 2:24 AM, TravisL said:

it's a pretty big problem because fixing them takes a lot of time.

Have you tried the V2 options "Fill Holes" | "Remove Inner Curves"

• To fill holes in a shape:
    From the Layer menu, select Geometry>Fill Holes.

• To remove inner curves within an open curve (or closed curve):
    From the Layer menu, select Geometry>Remove Inner Curves. Layer>Fill Mode>Winding (Non-Zero) must be enabled. This operates on a per layer basis.

 

1 hour ago, KarinC said:

Illustrator has a smooth tool which would be really nice to have in Designer.

I never understand the use of the Affinity "Smooth Curve" feature …

>> Smooth Curve modifies a line or shape, by adding and removing nodes, to create a rounder and softer curve effect. <<

… and I wonder what algorithm is working in curves like this …

… where it appears to fix an issue but also adds rather useless nodes with its goal 'to create a rounder and softer curve':

[KarinC]

Quite honestly I didn't even know Designer had a smooth tool. I guess I never have had a wish to use it. I like to make all the decisions about my nodes.

[R C-R]

1 hour ago, thomaso said:

I never understand the use of the Affinity "Smooth Curve" feature …

It's current implementation is known to be buggy.

[thomaso]

16 minutes ago, R C-R said:

current

Good to know. – Did it work as expected in any previous app version?

[R C-R]

Just now, thomaso said:

Did it work as expected in any previous app version?

I don't think much if anything has changed, version to version. It's still hit or miss as far as adding excessive nodes.