Black text color

[DJP]

I create a new document using CMYK, add a text frame, and type some text.  Then I apply one of the built-in paragraph styles (bullet, line below -- I tried a few and they all worked the same way).  If I select a few words and click on the 'font color' rectangle in the toolbar (or font color on the Color tab), it is shown as 0, 0, 0, 100 -- that's what I would expect for text.  But if I right-click on the style name in Text Styles and choose to edit the style, then go to Font/Color and Decoration, I see something like 72, 68, 67, 88. 

a) Is this supposed to be a rich black?  It adds up to more than 240, which can cause problems.

b) I want to be sure that all my text is 100% black, since that's what my printer recommends.  What's controlling the font color?  What's the easiest way to ensure that I get only black?  I make extensive use of styles; do I need to edit each one to be 0, 0, 0, 100?

I will appreciate any clarification on this.

[thomaso]

a) I don't know the "built-in" styles but would set the decoration colour to 0 0 0 100 K, too.

b) If you defined "Based on" styles without changing the colour it is sufficient to check/set the colour of the most parent style. For single, individual styles you would need to check each of them individually.

If the deviating colours have a known definition (e.g. your mentioned 72, 68, 67, 88) you can use the Find & Replace panel > "Find" > cog icon > "Format" > … to search for text that has this colour assigned and replace it with the according setting for "Replace" > cog icon > "Format" > … But note, if you change a font attribute via "Find and Replace" it will not affect the style definitions in the Text Styles panel and thus may result in a '+' sign next to the style name for text that has that style assigned. Then you can update the saved text style via the burger menu > "Update …" of each style name.

For export you need to make sure you use the default "as document" export settings, otherwise a 100 K may get exported as rich black. If you need to change the current document profile to match a certain printer requirement change the default "Convert" to the "Assign" option in the "Document Setup" > "Colour" before closing the dialog with "OK".

[lacerto]

It is quite confusing. Check the video clip below to better understand how color controls in Affinity apps operate and how you can determine the actual color that an object has been assigned with:

In a nutshell: the two ways to find out the actual color a text or native object (shape) has, is to use the Color panel and turn the lock off (on macOS, you might need to de and reselect an object to have the color values of a model made active updated), or using the color creation button when creating a swatch in a document palette within the Swatches panel (and having the list view turned on so that you can directly see to color component values). Note: Remember to switch back the lock in the Color panel to avoid inadvertent color mode conversions since if the lock is turned off, just switching the color model in the Color panel will result in conversion of color mode of a selected object. [EDIT: Note especially that using color pickers will NOT show the true underlying color model of an object that you use the color picker for, but the color value of that object when converted to the active color mode that the document is currently using (and that can be switched, without causing conversion of existing color values of text and shapes; values of pixel objects, however, would be auto-converted when switching the document color mode).]

As for other controls, e.g. the Font Color rectangle on the context toolbar, or the Text Fill rectangle in the Edit Text Style dialog box, simply just switching the color model does NOT automatically convert the color model of underlying style, or selected object. But Publisher will "remember" the last model that was selected in these contexts so if you change to "CMYK" model, the next time you access the same controls, they would show CMYK models. Note that actually typing in color values or selecting a color when using a specific color model, would result in redefining a color value for a selected object, so always be careful when using color controls in Affinity apps. [EDIT: As for styles, you can also find the actual color definition in plain text, if you drill down deep enough and read the style definitions of the base style.]

Note too, that the active document color mode in Publisher (or other Affinity apps) does not mean that colors that you define for objects (texts and shapes) would be automatically converted to the document color mode (which many other apps do); instead, they will be saved in meta data of each and every object you create or edit, so different objects within a document can well have definitions based on different color models, like RGB, HSL, Grayscale, CMYK, and Lab. 

So, to recap: In most contexts, just switching the color model within a color selector, will NOT result in conversion of the underlying color definition for a selected object, but only actual color selection, or typing in a color value (even if the same as the object currently has), will. But in the Color panel, just switching the color model WILL, unless the small lock icon is turned on (and by default, when you create a new document, it will be turned on). 

 

 

[DJP]

Thank you both for the replies. 

@thomaso, thanks for pointing out the possibility that exported black might get changed.  I usually leave the default alone but will watch out for this more carefully.  I have sometimes used "based on" styles but will do this more consistently for the reason you state.

@lacerto, the video is helpful as is your detailed discussion of color spaces and how they might get changed.

I did some more experimenting.  It appears that Publisher includes a style 'Base' which is applied by default to new text frames, with 100% black (at least when a document is created with CMYK).  When I change to one of the built-in styles, such as 'Body' or 'Bullet 1' (which are based on 'Base'), the text still shows as 100% black.  But if I open the style to edit it, I see CMYK sliders set to rich black (I guess . . . ), but these values are not applied when I check the box next to Text Fill.  The fill remains at none until I change one of the slider values.  I now see how it works, but it's not exactly intuitive. 

[walt.farrell]

23 minutes ago, DJP said:

I did some more experimenting.  It appears that Publisher includes a style 'Base' which is applied by default to new text frames, with 100% black (at least when a document is created with CMYK).  When I change to one of the built-in styles, such as 'Body' or 'Bullet 1' (which are based on 'Base'), the text still shows as 100% black.  But if I open the style to edit it, I see CMYK sliders set to rich black (I guess . . . ),

If I create a new CMYK document, and edit the built-in Base text style, it has a Black fill for the text, that is 0/0/0/100K:

If I edit the built-in Bullet 1 text style, it is based on Base, and it does not change the fill:

If you are seeing that Bullet 1 is setting a fill, I think you've already modified it.

[lacerto]

2 hours ago, DJP said:

When I change to one of the built-in styles, such as 'Body' or 'Bullet 1' (which are based on 'Base'), the text still shows as 100% black.  But if I open the style to edit it, I see CMYK sliders set to rich black (I guess . . . ), but these values are not applied when I check the box next to Text Fill. 

This might imply that the document was initially created in RGB color mode, where text styles are based on RGB, and black text would be RGB 0, 0, 0. The CMYK conversion value of pure RGB black would be something like you mention, depending on the underlying CMYK color profile.

 

Note that if you switch the document color mode from RGB to CMYK, the style definitions stay RGB based. This can be confusing but it is a kind of a forte of Affinity apps that they allow this. It is similar as in InDesign, where support for multiple color modes is more controlled and enhanced, and also well documented.