Exporting a cover file PDF (with spine)

[PeeGeeBee]

Hi. It's possible I'm missing something obvious here, please bear with me.

When I want to produce the cover file (back, spine, and front cover in one PDF spread), I add the width of the front and back (say 140 mm + 140 mm), then add to this the specific spine width (say 10mm). The result is 290mm and I go to Document Setup and change the existing 280mm width (my default) to 290mm, and all is well. The printer has successfully produced a number of bound books for me and they look good and as expected.

But here's my question: when I return to some of these Publisher projects, including those from which I've successfully exported the cover PDF, inside the Document setup, the width has reverted to 280 (i.e. does not include the spine measurement) though on the file itself I can clearly see the spine is included, and if I measure using the overhead ruler the width is indeed 290mm and not 280mm.

Is this a glitch/bug, or is there something I'm missing? Many thanks, as ever, for the support for a newbie.

[thomaso]

2 hours ago, PeeGeeBee said:

inside the Document setup, the width has reverted to 280

Where do you see a page size in "Document Setup…" ? – To me (in V1) the initial document dimensions can neither get checked nor changed. Whereas Affinity enables us to modify the page size in "Spread Properties…" and "Spread Setup…" afterwards for all or for individually selected spreads.

So in your example the cover page may have a different size than other pages in the document – while creating a new page (based on no master or based on an unmodified master size) will get created in that dimensions that were initially set when creating the document.

[PeeGeeBee]

@thomaso Thanks for your reply. I find Document Setup at the bottom of the File menu. In V2, at least.

My printed books are generally 140mm wide x 216 mm high (5.5 x 8.5 inches, or thereabouts for Imperial users). So I have a blank cover template (i.e. back and front cover, side by side) that is 216 high x (140 + 140mm) wide = 280mm. This way I can have all the essentials like logos, barcode blanks, etc, in place when I begin. For each new book project, I only need to add the appropriate spine width to the overall spread by going to Document Setup and changing my default 280 (remember 140mm front + 140mm back) to 290 (i.e. including now the 10mm spine). I then output a single cover file spready. (The interior pages  I set up entirely separately as they are monochrome and, of course, all precisely the same size, like the interior pages of most printed books.)

In InDesign, it is possible to build a template with three 'pages', ie. a back, a front and a spine and, for each new project, to manually change the width of the spine to the necessary dimensions. (InDesign treats the spine like one of three pages that contribute to the overall cover spread, which is logical and pretty straightforward.) However, this seems not to be possible in Publisher, so I try to effect something similar using the Document Setup menu, adding up the width of the back, the front and the estimated spine size and producing a single cover PDF for the printer to work with.

Is there another/better way to do this? As I say, the process works for me but, oddly, the changes I make in the Document Setup (see attached for a file with a spine of 7.8 mm) are not always remembered.

[R C-R]

5 hours ago, thomaso said:

Where do you see a page size in "Document Setup…" ?

Already mentioned while I was composing this, but Document Setup in APub V2 has a Dimensions tab:

FWIW, the APub V2 Spread Properties help topic is a confused mess, among other things showing the Spread Setup dialog from V1. It also mentions selecting Spread Setup from the File menu, which is an item in APub V1 but not V2's Publisher Persona. It is present in the File menu of the Designer Persona of APub V2, but there it opens the same Document Setup dialog as above, which duplicates the Document Setup item in that persona's File menu.

(IOW, there is no Spread Setup dialog in APub V2, although there is the Spread Properties... item you mentioned available by right-clicking on a master or document page.)

[thomaso]

Ah, it appears to be a change for "Document Setup…" in V2, – in V1 it is not possible to modify the dimensions after document creation other than via "Spread Setup / Properties…".

I understand the problem and the required workaround for the limitation in APub to spreads of max. 2 pages. (Though I don't understand why you add the spine width to all spreads, not to the cover only).

However, unfortunately I can't help if your modified value in "Document Setup" is not stored properly. But by the three options I assume a change will affect existing pages only, not newly created pages. As you say initially, the existing pages still have the modified and expected size. So possibly it works like in V1 where you need to do the change for every new / added page once more.

[R C-R]

29 minutes ago, PeeGeeBee said:

As I say, the process works for me but, oddly, the changes I make in the Document Setup (see attached for a file with a spine of 7.8 mm) are not always remembered.

Are you talking about saving a template you have made for the cover or something else? If it is a template did you select "Export as Template..." from the File menu?

Assuming this is just for covers & does not include any interior pages, why does it have or need a Master page, & if it is included how is it sized?

Perhaps if you could attach a sample file it would be easier to see what's what....

[R C-R]

5 minutes ago, thomaso said:

(Though I don't understand why you add the spine width to all spreads, not to the cover only).

As I understand it from the OP's comments & last screenshot, there is just one spread in the cover file document ("Page 1") & one (possibly unneeded) Master page ("A-Master"), & that the book's interior pages are in a separate document.

[thomaso]

37 minutes ago, R C-R said:

the book's interior pages are in a separate document.

You are right, I had overseen this:

1 hour ago, PeeGeeBee said:

I then output a single cover file spready. (The interior pages  I set up entirely separately as they are monochrome and, of course, all precisely the same size, like the interior pages of most printed books.)

Apart from that, do you experience the modified page dimensions not being displayed correctly when reopening the "Document Setup" or the document? I can't reproduce the issue in V1 with its according "Spread Property…" dialog window:

[PeeGeeBee]

Thanks, all, for the contributions.

If I'm understanding correctly, instead of trying to change the spread width (back, front and spine widths all added together) in the Document Setup Dimensions dialogue, I should be choosing the Spread Properties, as in thomas's post above, and editing the Dimensions dialogue there. Is that right? Is that the 'proper' way to achieve an easily resizeable cover file that can be adapted, project by project?

I may have caused some confusion when using the word Template because my question would as easily apply to a simple file, stored and Saved As, as new projects occurred.

And yes, just to confirm, I am working on only the cover spread, as a separate file to the main (interior) body of the book, sending the printed two separate PDFs, one for the cover spread, the other for the body text etc.

Many thanks again for the contributions. I learned much of what little I know through reading printed manuals on InDesign. I've struggled with the documentation for Publisher; maybe it would be easier to have started from scratch rather than trying to find equivalent actions and solutions.

[Old Bruce]

11 minutes ago, PeeGeeBee said:

I am working on only the cover spread, as a separate file to the main (interior) body of the book, sending the printed two separate PDFs, one for the cover spread, the other for the body text etc.

I would just make a file with one "page" that is wide enough for the Back Cover, the Spine, and the Front Cover.

You may want to talk to your printer to get the proper dimensions, the spine may wind up being thicker/thinner depending on the book's paper weight and finish.

[R C-R]

33 minutes ago, PeeGeeBee said:

If I'm understanding correctly, instead of trying to change the spread width (back, front and spine widths all added together) in the Document Setup Dimensions dialogue, I should be choosing the Spread Properties, as in thomas's post above, and editing the Dimensions dialogue there. Is that right?

It should not matter which place you change or set the dimensions of your single document spread page. It should work either way; however, unless you have a compelling reason to include a Master page in the file, don't add or use one. Just put everything you want in the cover in that one document page, set to whatever width you need to contain all of it.

[PeeGeeBee]

Thanks, @Old Bruce. My printer (sorry for the 'printed' typo) requires separate PDF files for cover and body text (as does Lightning Source with whom I've printed over 200 books over the past decade or so), so the output format is a given -- it's just a question of what's the best way to produce the cover PDF. I think my mistake has been in trying to edit the Document Setup Dimensions instead of the Spread Dimensions.

Thanks, @R C-R, yes I think you're right about that. I don't need a Master Page (when there is nothing else to have conform to it except the single cover spread I'm working on.

[R C-R]

9 minutes ago, PeeGeeBee said:

I think my mistake has been in trying to edit the Document Setup Dimensions instead of the Spread Dimensions.

Either way should work equally well, as long as you save the file after changing the dimensions.

[thomaso]

1 hour ago, PeeGeeBee said:

I think my mistake has been in trying to edit the Document Setup Dimensions instead of the Spread Dimensions.

From my V1 perspective it appears there was no mistake but rather a unnecessary workaround. Instead of creating a document for the cover in size of the inside spreads first and adjusting that afterwards with one of the additional dialog windows you can directly crate the cover document in the finally required dimensions.

1 hour ago, R C-R said:

Either way should work equally well, as long as you save the file after changing the dimensions.

Do I understand @PeeGeeBee right that it does work in V2 to modify the initial document dimensions but the values aren't displayed correctly in one or both Setup/Property dialogs at a later time while the change of the page dimension is applied to the according pages?

[R C-R]

22 minutes ago, thomaso said:

Do I understand @PeeGeeBee right that it does work in V2 to modify the initial document dimensions but the values aren't displayed correctly in one or both Setup/Property dialogs at a later time while the change of the page dimension is applied to the according pages?

All I can say is it works as expected for me for a single page document. All dimensions are displayed correctly, whether changed in Document Setup or via Spread Properties... 

[Oufti]

13 hours ago, PeeGeeBee said:

I add the width of the front and back (say 140 mm + 140 mm), then add to this the specific spine width (say 10mm).

You probably know that you can type these calculations directly in Affinity desktop apps dimensions fields:

 

45 minutes ago, thomaso said:

it does work in V2 to modify the initial document dimensions but the values aren't displayed correctly in one or both Setup/Property dialogs

What I see here is that when I've changed the spread dimensions and then reopen the Spread properties dialog, it shows the spread button as selected but the value is that of a single page. Clicking on the page button, then on the spread button again corrects the values (which are already well applied to the pages). 

 

 

 

[R C-R]

19 minutes ago, Oufti said:

What I see here is that when I have changed the spread dimensions and then reopen the Spread properties dialog, it shows the spread button as selected but the value is that of a single page. Clicking on the page button, then on the spread button again updates the values (which are already well applied to the pages). 

Assuming the OP is saving the file as a single page document, this should not matter, nor I think should it change anything even if it was a multipage document because it seems to just be a cosmetic quirk in how the properties display updates.

[Oufti]

1 minute ago, R C-R said:

it seems to just be a cosmetic quirk in how the properties display updates.

Yes. It is also my opinion, and the conclusion of my tests, thus answering the OP's question:

13 hours ago, PeeGeeBee said:

Is this a glitch/bug, or is there something I'm missing?

It's a bug, without consequences.