Affinity Photo - A document made entirely of linked images is still over 120mb?

[thomaso]

On 3/21/2023 at 3:25 PM, stokerg said:

you do get a Snapshot layer when opening an image file like a PNG/JPG and there isn't a way to disable that from what i know, other than deleting it manually.

On 3/21/2023 at 3:30 PM, Old Bruce said:

If I place a PNG in a new document there is no Snapshot.

@stokerg, I always wonder why "open" is forced to create a "background" = "pixel" layer … but does not allow to open linked (as possible with "Place" or when opening a RAW in V2). I often open an image (to get a document in its size created, then delete the "background" layer + place the image to get an "image" layer to avoid a large default .afphoto file size).

Wouldn't it be useful (and also auto-avoid unwanted snapshots) to have a choice when opening an image to open as "pixel" or as linked "image"?

[R C-R]

6 hours ago, thomaso said:

@stokerg, I always wonder why "open" is forced to create a "background" = "pixel" layer … but does not allow to open linked (as possible with "Place" or when opening a RAW in V2). I often open an image (to get a document in its size created, then delete the "background" layer + place the image to get an "image" layer to avoid a large default .afphoto file size).

I'm not sure what you mean about "Place" opening a PNG, JPEG, or similar filetypes as a link to the original. AFAIK, in AP regardless of the Linked/Embedded preference these file types are always placed as unlinked single Image layers, not Pixel layers, & never named "background."

[thomaso]

52 minutes ago, R C-R said:

I'm not sure what you mean about "Place" opening a PNG, JPEG, or similar filetypes as a link to the original.

As mentioned  >>I always wonder why "open" is forced to create a "background" = "pixel" layer … but does not allow to open linked << it means the way how images are opened (opposite to placed). I would want the option to open (not place) an image but with the result of placed items: as linked layers and/or with an entry in the Resource Manager – but possibly still with the name + suffix of the opened file (for simple "Save" if wanted).

[R C-R]

1 hour ago, thomaso said:

... << it means the way how images are opened (opposite to placed).

But AFAIK, for single layer files like PNGs or JPEGs, it does not matter if the placement policy is set to prefer linked or embedded. They are always placed as unlinked (embedded) Image layers.

So are you asking for an option that applies to both opening & placing these filetypes as just links to the original files or something else?

[thomaso]

4 hours ago, R C-R said:

So are you asking for an option that applies to (…) opening (…) these filetypes as just links to the original files(…)?

Yes. (I'm talking about opening, you keep talking about placing instead).

Compare this feature request from 2020, which has been implemented and enabled in V2 for RAW but not for other image file types:

 

[R C-R]

12 hours ago, thomaso said:

Yes. (I'm talking about opening, you keep talking about placing instead).

Only because you said "opposite to placed." Both place & open currently embed flat, single layer files regardless of the placement policy so I am asking if you want an option to link the file regardless.

[walt.farrell]

16 minutes ago, R C-R said:

Only because you said "opposite to placed." Both place & open currently embed flat, single layer files regardless of the placement policy so I am asking if you want an option to link the file regardless.

Place does not Embed, if the policy says to Link, so I'm not sure what you mean by that.

But it seems clear to me that what thomaso wants is an option for Open to create the file with a Linked Image layer when a raster file is opened, rather than a Pixel layer.

[thomaso]

30 minutes ago, R C-R said:

open currently embed flat, single layer files regardless of the placement policy so I am asking if you want an option to link the file

How often do you want to ask? – I recommend to start reading again and focus on "open" (not on "place") and/or read the linked feature request. For instance from my first post in this thread:

On 4/17/2024 at 12:20 PM, thomaso said:

a choice when opening an image to open as "pixel" or as linked "image"

While opening as "pixel" is the existing behaviour it's clear that the option to open as linked is the wanted/requested/suggested/new/missing way of opening.

[R C-R]

2 hours ago, walt.farrell said:

Place does not Embed, if the policy says to Link, so I'm not sure what you mean by that.

When I opened a new document in AP V2 with File> Placement Policy set to Linked & used File > Place to place a JPG, GIF, PNG, or any other raster image format file in that new document I got what the Layers panel showed to be a simple Image layer, with no tooltip or icon badge hint that it was linked. Only after opening the Resource Manager did I see that it was in fact linked.

So I see my mistake now.

EDIT: I just noticed that when I place a SVG or PDF file in this same document, I do get a tooltip indicating it is a Linked document & those layers display the </> linked document badge. So I think it is either a bug or an oversight that for the other filetypes there is no indication in the Layers panel that they are in fact linked documents.

[walt.farrell]

40 minutes ago, R C-R said:

EDIT: I just noticed that when I place a SVG or PDF file in this same document, I do get a tooltip indicating it is a Linked document & those layers display the </> linked document badge. So I think it is either a bug or an oversight that for the other filetypes there is no indication in the Layers panel that they are in fact linked documents.

But a Placed raster file is not a "linked document". It is an Image layer. The </> is only for linked/embedded document layers.

You're right that except in the Resource Manager, you can't tell whether an Image layer is Linked or Embedded. I suspect that's by design.

[thomaso]

48 minutes ago, R C-R said:

Only after opening the Resource Manager did I see that it was in fact linked.

6 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

You're right that except in the Resource Manager, you can't tell whether an Image layer is Linked or Embedded. I suspect that's by design.

No. With a linked image layer selected the Context Toolbar offers the "Edit Image" button, this is not available for embedded images.

@R C-R, the hint "Linked document" appears for container file formats and thus also shows for placed Affinity documents and EPS files. This also means that they cannot be easily edited in the same way that placed image layers can be.

[R C-R]

40 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

But a Placed raster file is not a "linked document".

According to the Resource Manager for JPG & similar filetypes its Placement is "Linked."

Try it for yourself with this Linked Image.afphoto file & the attached 

In the AP2 file, use the "Edit Image" button to for example change the size of the placed image in a new tab. Now close that tab. You should get a warning that "Boring JPG.jpg has been modified," asking if you want to Save it. Click Save & choose "Save Flattened" in the next dialog.

Note that the size of the original Boring JPG.jpg file has been changed, indicating it is in fact linked.

So I can see no good reason why the tooltip for the placed Image file does not show that it is a linked document or display the </> badge.

[R C-R]

1 hour ago, thomaso said:

@R C-R, the hint "Linked document" appears for container file formats and thus also shows for placed Affinity documents and EPS files.

Yes, but according to the Image layers help topic:

Quote

An image layer has a container which retains the placed image's original color space, resolution and physical dimensions (when placed at native resolution).

So doesn't that make it a container format?

[walt.farrell]

45 minutes ago, R C-R said:

According to the Resource Manager for JPG & similar filetypes its Placement is "Linked."

"Linked" is not the same as "Linked Document".

[R C-R]

22 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

"Linked" is not the same as "Linked Document".

Then what exactly is the difference? In the Resource Manager if I click on the BoringJPG.jpg, it shows me the file path to the original & the "Embed" button works to change it to an embedded layer. It is still an "Image" according to the Layers panel but it is a linked container & IMO should be treated as such.

In the Resource Manager this is exactly the same behavior as when I place an SVG or PDF file into the document.

[walt.farrell]

32 minutes ago, R C-R said:

Then what exactly is the difference?

 

32 minutes ago, R C-R said:

In the Resource Manager this is exactly the same behavior as when I place an SVG or PDF file into the document.

The differences are in: how it is shown in the Layers panel and how it behaves (e.g. the options available in the Context Toolbar, among others). 

Linked Images are not the same in function as Linked Documents, though they are similar. 

Embedded Images are not the same as Embedded Documents, though they are similar. 

[R C-R]

1 hour ago, walt.farrell said:

The differences are in: how it is shown in the Layers panel...

Yes, but what I am suggesting is it should be shown as linked to make it clear that there is a link to the original version, that its "Placement" status in the Resource Manager can be toggled between linked & embedded, its file path can be shown & via Show in Finder (or the Windows equivalent) the original can be exposed, & last but not least if the document containing it is saved & then the Linked file is deleted (or moved?) then the next time the file is opened you get a missing resource notification.

Note that in the Resource Manager help file there is this:

A placed image or document can have the following Status:

• OK—The file is up to date.
• Modified—The linked or remote file has been modified externally. Click Update/Refresh to get the latest version.
• Missing—Although still placed and displayed, the linked file has been deleted or moved externally to the app.

This suggests to me that there is no meaningful distinction between placed image or document files.

 

 

 

[walt.farrell]

46 minutes ago, R C-R said:

This suggests to me that there is no meaningful distinction between placed image or document files.

As far as the Resource Manager, no. But you started it taking about how it shows up in the Layers panel, and it is different there. And also different in other places and ways.

In any case, as you know, if you want to make suggestions that's done in a different part of the forums.

[R C-R]

7 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

But you started it taking about how it shows up in the Layers panel, and it is different there. And also different in other places and ways.

Nevertheless, the image is linked to the original because if you delete or move it & reopen the file you get the Missing notification. Users should not have to use the Resource Manager to see that it is not, repeat not, embedded in the file.