Linux user base keep growing !

[marcelboyen]

There are thousands who wouldn’t move, and thousands who would. Linux hasn’t really been a big deal for years, it is only recently that Linux has started skyrocketing, look at the statistics. (As long as they are desktop only, although Linux does technically have 70% of the mobile market with Android but that’s a different and unrelated topic). One of the main reasons people don’t use Linux is the lack of good creative apps.

[marcelboyen]

1 minute ago, jpileborg said:

How is that really much different from Windows? We seem to have got rid of XP and Vista (at least for normal desktop use, some kiosk-type systems still use them) but there are still hundreds of not thousands of variants out there. And yet, it all seem to work just fine.

And it's not that much different from Linux... Admittedly I'm using one of the major distributions (Ubuntu), but it's still not the one most creative software support and yet I can still run just about anything from Houdini to Unreal to Nuke and even DaVinci Resolve. Everything "just works"., Not only the base system and all normal applications that most people use from day to day (word processing, calculator sheets, etc.), but also these specialized applications.

As I said before, it's very much a catch-22 dilemma.

Regarding the thousands of different Linux distributions that are "doing their own thing", most of "their own things" is really just cosmetical. There are a few (very few) base distributions, that the vast majority is a derivative of. And if an application works on the base distribution or one of its derivatives, then it's very likely that it will work on most derivatives of the base. And many other unrelated distributions as well, perhaps with a little tweaking (which is way too common in the Windows world as well).

This. And even with those base distros, Flatpak lets your app work universally on all of them.

[Wanesty]

@Chills ↓ look at the Last 90 days on there

21 minutes ago, Wanesty said:

edit: if that seems low: those numbers from my guide's analytics do state that a lot of people are interested on ditching windows for linux and are interested in using affinity there

also yes the userbase has been oscillating but it is still possible to see a fairly big upward trend in the last few years

 

9 minutes ago, Chills said:

It is highly unlikely to become mainstream like Windows and IOS That is the commercial reality.

pookiebear i think you meant macOS because if you didn't: can you tell me what's android's kernel?

[marcelboyen]

Just now, Wanesty said:

@Chills ↓

also yes the userbase has been oscillating but it is still possible to see a fairly big upward trend in the last few years

 

pookiebear i think you meant macOS because if you didn't: can you tell me what's android's kernel?

Exactly! It has already gotten to 4.31% desktop marketshare not including ChromeOS, upwards from a little over 2% in about 2 years, it’s growing really fast, and part of the issues hindering the growth are lack of creative software. And yeah lol Linux technically has ~70% mobile marketshare with Android

[HCl]

.

[Chills]

6 minutes ago, jpileborg said:

How is that really much different from Windows?

Very different to Windows. 
Each one of those parallel lines in that Linux Chart has an ongoing development, like windows.
There are also another dozen (or more) charts like that for other Linux Distros.

The BIG difference is for Windows Serif will be part of the partner program and have the 2 and 5 year roadmap under NDA.  They will get advance information and Alpha releases and then Beta releases.
For Linux, they all do their own thing asynchronously with no warning. You try doing commercial development like that.

[Wanesty]

4 minutes ago, Return said:

Nope

i just plotted the Linux values from this website from 2010 until now:

[Chills]

6 minutes ago, Wanesty said:

also yes the userbase has been oscillating but it is still possible to see a fairly big upward trend in the last few years

Yes, an upward trend from miniscule to insignificant. It has been doing this for 20 years.
However, the chart posted shows Linux is flat lining, not an upward, nor downward, trend.

For Linux to be taken seriously, ONE Linux distro has to be hitting 25% plus and consistently.
Also, it has to have a guaranteed 2 and 5 year roadmap and development plan.  You can't develop for 2 years for a feature that may or may not be there when you launch.
Who is there at Linux Inc to sign NDA's with?

[Wanesty]

4 minutes ago, Chills said:

Very different to Windows. 
Each one of those parallel lines in that Linux Chart has an ongoing development, like windows.
There are also another dozen (or more) charts like that for other Linux Distros.

The BIG difference is for Windows Serif will be part of the partner program and have the 2 and 5 year roadmap under NDA.  They will get advance information and Alpha releases and then Beta releases.
For Linux, they all do their own thing asynchronously with no warning. You try doing commercial development like that.

as you often do, you missed the main point of the argument:

14 minutes ago, jpileborg said:

Regarding the thousands of different Linux distributions that are "doing their own thing", most of "their own things" is really just cosmetical. There are a few (very few) base distributions, that the vast majority is a derivative of. And if an application works on the base distribution or one of its derivatives, then it's very likely that it will work on most derivatives of the base. And many other unrelated distributions as well, perhaps with a little tweaking (which is way too common in the Windows and macOS worlds as well).

 

[marcelboyen]

4 minutes ago, Chills said:

Yes, an upward trend from miniscule to insignificant. It has been doing this for 20 years.
However, the chart posted shows Linux is flat lining, not an upward, nor downward, trend.

For Linux to be taken seriously, ONE Linux distro has to be hitting 25% plus and consistently.
Also, it has to have a guaranteed 2 and 5 year roadmap and development plan.  You can't develop for 2 years for a feature that may or may not be there when you launch.
Who is there at Linux Inc to sign NDA's with?

It flatlined from years, then doubled in only 2 years, from a little over 2% to 4.31% global desktop marketshare and only going up faster and faster, that’s not flatlining my friend.

[Chills]

6 minutes ago, Wanesty said:

as you often do, you missed the main point of the argument:

Unfortunately, I didn't miss the point.  Though it is clear you have
Affinity have stated a Linux version is not going to happen. All I was doing is explaining the whys and wherefores.
However, if you are going to insist the grass is blue, you knock yourself out.

[marcelboyen]

1 minute ago, Chills said:

Unfortunately, I didn't miss the point.  Though it is clear you have
However, if you are going to insist the grass is blue, you knock yourself out.

You clearly missed the point…

[HCl]

.

[Wanesty]

25 minutes ago, Chills said:

For Linux, they all do their own thing asynchronously with no warning. You try doing commercial development like that.

this is untrue, it is possible to closely follow the roadmap and development of not only the kernel but the drivers, while i agree the noise of the mailing lists is a thing, there is numerous news outlets filtering and publishing them. Roadmaps aside, deprecation and deletion are often talked about and notified months to most often years in advance.

It is not different as having to follow the different parts of a windows system, you want to be compatible with windows related things, directX progress and every dependencies (image formats to name an example) your software relies upon

edit: and again the issue of distro discrepancies are nullified by a distribution method like Flatpak

[Wanesty]

11 minutes ago, Return said:

From 0.71 % to 4.3% in 15 years and most are likely webservers which are holding all those cloud options we use today for streaming, AI and our storage.

that's literally the source you sent, it does not include servers, it is only from users on a web browsers.

the important thing to note isn't the 0.5% to 4.5% progress it is the curve of the graph not being linear but having an upward trend!

[TravisL]

Under the hood Affinity is probably a bit different to the likes of Krita and GIMP, but if photo editing and drawing software can be compatible with Linux, MacOS, and Windows then surely it's possible for Affinity to be as well.

[fde101]

10 hours ago, Chills said:

completely unrelated architecturally

At the kernel level even UNIX systems are largely unrelated to each other any more, outside of the common system call interfaces they present to applications.  For example, macOS is (or at least as of a few versions ago was - not sure if they have kept it up) a certified UNIX platform, being "real" UNIX, in spite of being built on a micro-kernel architecture, something entirely different from nearly all of the other mainstream UNIX platforms, many of which started with a common code base but have grown apart from it in their own unique ways over time.

In terms of how those particular commands work, however, there isn't much of a difference.   Versions of them are widely deployed on UNIX and Linux alike to do exactly the same things.  Many current UNIX platforms have borrowed rather heavily from the tools created for Linux and even run the same graphical environments that are commonly seen on Linux platforms.

[Chills]

20 hours ago, marcelboyen said:

It flatlined from years, then doubled in only 2 years, from a little over 2% to 4.31% global desktop marketshare and only going up faster and faster, that’s not flatlining my friend.

OK so it is on one of its periodic highs from minuscule to insignificant.
If Linux ever gets over 10% then you might have a case.
However, that needs to be 10% for a particular flavour of Linux. 

Having looked at flatpak, that is not (yet) the answer. The fact that it is needed at all is a HUGE red flag for any commercial developer looking at Linux. However like Linux when you look into it it is not a simple or as effective as its advocates suggest.

I expect we will still be having the same discussions in a decades time with Linux still around the 5% mark, if you are lucky.  It has been oscillating between 1-5% for 30 years.

 

[Frozen Death Knight]

On 11/24/2024 at 12:45 PM, Wanesty said:

i know moderators don't really read this topic anymore but if there is a single thing to take from it and push to higher ups is this ^

 

edit: this is also the reason why people are so insistent and pretty much expect it

Fact. I still have Windows 10 installed on another hard drive just in case, but I haven't booted up Windows for months now. Been happily working on Linux Mint 22 for multiple game projects and counting this year alone. I have also started moving over to Krita because the current artistic work I do can be done in Krita alone. I would have preferred to keep using Affinity, but my current needs are being met sufficiently.

I left Adobe the moment I saw that Affinity was sufficient enough for what I used Photoshop for and at this rate I am just going to work with Linux compatible software or those that are able to work through Proton/Wine. If I get Affinity to work at some point through alternative means, then that's good. Though, I have so far kept to my word that I won't be coming back to Windows any time soon. If I could replace Adobe, then so can I do with Affinity if absolutely needed.

[Cashew]

On 11/24/2024 at 9:11 AM, marcelboyen said:

I’ve seen several replies here, one mentioned that one issue is that there are thousands of Linux distros, and I already provided a solution to that, just use Flatpaks.

People probably didn't touched on Linux in the last 5 years. "Too many distros" should explain why there was never a software developed to Linux ever, if this was true. We have software maintained by big teams, like Valve's Steam, software by few maintainers like Gimp, software that are powerhorses on computing, like Blackmagic Da Vinci Resolve... working all across Linux.

To be honest, at this point I just hope any company grab the Linux market share for professional graphic design and make a good product. I would pay for it, advocate for it, talk about it on my community and "never" care to pay Adobe subscription or buy Affinity versions again.

[Wanesty]

5 hours ago, Frozen Death Knight said:

I have also started moving over to Krita because the current artistic work I do can be done in Krita alone.

krita really is great for raster work; and it is in my opinion way better than gimp

5 hours ago, Frozen Death Knight said:

If I get Affinity to work at some point through alternative means, then that's good.

peep my signature ↓ it's not perfect but it's pretty usable if you just miss some filters or you need to export old projects!

[OzNate]

On 11/24/2024 at 11:01 PM, Chills said:

That is categorically 100% NOT true. 
I went from Adobe to Affinity.

There is NO WAY I would use Linux as a desktop system.

OK, so both statements cannot be generalized to everyone, that's fair.

But there is quite a movement toward looking at Linux, even among creatives.

And there are common reasons behind people's desire for an alternative - much of it to do with corporate anti-consumer practices that a lot of people are sick of and desperate to get away from.

[Chills]

11 minutes ago, OzNate said:

But there is quite a movement toward looking at Linux, even among creatives.

This is 100% wrong. Over the last 30+ years, Linux has oscillated between 001 and 5% of the desktop market.
For 30 years it has been the "next big thing"  Yet 95%+  of the desktop market has ignored it.
Affinity have stated (several times)  there is no Linux Version anywhere on the road map.
There is no commercial justification for a Linux version.

[Cashew]

20 hours ago, Chills said:

This is 100% wrong. Over the last 30+ years, Linux has oscillated between 001 and 5% of the desktop market.
For 30 years it has been the "next big thing"  Yet 95%+  of the desktop market has ignored it.

You're looking on data all wrong. You are looking as "winner-loser" situation. Marketing does not work like this, it works on opportunities.

Let's say 2% of users are on Linux (I'm basing on Valve's Steam users, because overall is not 5%. 5% would be HUGE and we wouldn't be having this discussion here, we would be discussing which of Adobe or Affinity performs better on LInux).

If 2% of users - and let's say that by consequence, 1.5% of designers were on Linux, then you would guarantee this 1.5% of the market because you would be the only player on Linux. Let's say now Affinity have 5% of market, while Adobe and other alternatives have 95%. Jumping from 5% to 6%, giving a margin, is a big deal.

Also, it is all more qualitative than quantitative. A lot of schools and universities use Linux. I was an intern on my Design school and while the entire ecossystem was Linux, we had 2 separate studios with workstations running solo on Windows just to run Adobe Suite. All other computer studios, where we had CAD software, Blender and game design stuff (mostly Godot) were on Linux. This would be another opportunity.

Hollywood and some TV Stations use Da Vinci Resolve as their solution for film and video editing. Most of them use it on Linux, because it is smoother and works better integrated to servers that have big size files. They would be another opportunity, since they're on creative market.

You said about 30 years. Well, for 30 years "gaming on Linux" wasn't a thing. Now it is. Since Steam Deck and Steam OS with a majority of titles performing almost as good or even better on Linux, we have people coming because of this. Today gaming industry moves with a lot of help of creators, and they use creative software to make thumbnails for videos, templates for streaming, and so on. Other smaller, but maybe significant opportunity.

Affinity shouldn't be considering if "Windows is bigger than Linux" just because first of all, Affinity isn't even trying to be "bigger than Adobe". They are on blue ocean market, and the argument of which base of user is bigger would be relevant for companies on red ocean, like Adobe.

 

[Snapseed]

On 11/22/2024 at 12:55 AM, TravisL said:

This seems to be a Linux megathread of sorts, I already have the universal license on Windows but I would happily pay for another if it meant I could ditch my Windows dual-boot entirely for my Linux partition.

The only way I know of to run Affinity Photo well under Linux is using Windows in a virtual machine as per Hartmut Doering's useful advice below.

I can't see Serif Europe or other software providers making their products available for Linux until such time as desktop Linux's market share approaches that of macOS.