Wanesty Posted November 24, 2024 Author Posted November 24, 2024 20 minutes ago, Chills said: So if Affinity did do, like resolve a version for Rocky Linux 8.6 and ONLY that distribution, are you all happy to swap to that distribution. they would likely choose to go with flatpak, and even if they doesn't it wouldn't matter much: while only officially supported on a single one, resolve can run on any distro as long as the dependencies are met, matter of fact a third party even published it on flatpak. 18 minutes ago, Chills said: That is categorically 100% NOT true. I went from Adobe to Affinity. There is NO WAY I would use Linux as a desktop system. 👍 cool bro unrelated then i guess but i've seen over 20 people thus far saying the only thing keeping them on windows/dualbooting is affinity edit: if that seems low: those numbers from my guide's analytics do state that a lot of people are interested on ditching windows for linux and are interested in using affinity there Snapseed and OzNate 2 Quote up to date guide for the Affinity Suite on Linux : https://affinity.liz.pet, source on codeberg and a gitlab mirror
marcelboyen Posted November 24, 2024 Posted November 24, 2024 I’ve seen several replies here, one mentioned that one issue is that there are thousands of Linux distros, and I already provided a solution to that, just use Flatpaks. They are universal and work on every Linux distro. And also Linux users are willing to pay for good software, especially creative professionals, like someone else said these are stupid stereotypes. And finally, I saw a mention of Linux only having 2.77% market share on StatCounter. In 2024, on StatCounter (worldwide marketshare), if only “Desktop” is ticked on and “Mobile”, “Tablet”, and “Console” or ticked off, pure desktop Linux has a total of 4.31% global marketshare. This is still a huge amount of people, and tons more would switch, although they have expressed on the internet that their only reasons are lack of Adobe creative apps, which would give Affinity more marketshare and give Linux users a professional creative graphic design suite. Also no, Linux users don’t only use free and open source software, and software doesn’t have to be free and open source to be on Linux. There is tons of proprietary software on Linux. Snapseed 1 Quote
fde101 Posted November 24, 2024 Posted November 24, 2024 On 11/22/2024 at 8:59 AM, Cashew said: I have no idea what sudo even mean UNIX systems have long had a command called "su" which is "switch user" or "substitute user" depending on who you ask... basically it gives you a command prompt that runs commands as a different user from the one you logged in as. You need to provide that user's password to do so. The most common use case is to run things as the system administrator (the "root" user account) so that you can do most things from a non-privileged account and gain higher levels of access only when you actually need them. Linux and more recent UNIX platforms have added a command called "sudo" which is basically "switch user and do...", which takes the password of the user running the command instead of the password of the user they are trying to get the command to run as, and uses a configuration file to determine if it should be allowed. Again this is most commonly used to run commands as the system administrator (root), but without requiring the user to know the password of the other user. In many modern systems the root user account (the traditional UNIX system administration account) is disabled so that users cannot log into it directly, and the ability to perform privileged tasks is instead provided by associating users with a group that is allowed to use "sudo" to execute the required commands. This is perceived as being somewhat more secure than allowing users to log in as root directly. It is loosely the command line UNIX/Linux equivalent of the Windows "Run as Administrator" menu item that shows up in some places. Snapseed 1 Quote
Chills Posted November 24, 2024 Posted November 24, 2024 9 minutes ago, Wanesty said: unrelated then i guess but i've seen over 20 people thus far saying the only thing keeping them on windows/dualbooting is affinity and I know thousands who wouldn't move. 90% of the windows market don't care and wouldn't move. 95% of the Apple market are religious and won't move. That is 85% of the possible marker taken care of.... That is the reality the Linux market is, outside the echo chambers, far too small and very fractured anyway. Linux has been the "next big thing" for about 20 years and oscillates between 1% and 4.5% of the desktop market. It is highly unlikely to become mainstream like Windows and IOS That is the commercial reality. Quote www.JAmedia.uk and www.TamworthHeritage.org.uk [Win 11 | AMD Ryzen 5950X 16 Core CPU | 128GB Ram | NVIDIA 3080TI 12GB ] [MB ASUS ProArt B550| C Drive:; 1TB M2 980 Pro | D Drive; 2TB M2 970 EVO ]
jpileborg Posted November 24, 2024 Posted November 24, 2024 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Chills said: Come back when it is 10 times that. The problem is it is not "Linux" but a huge collection of similar but different OS all doing their own thing. Here is the Debian Family Tree (there are literally dozens of other similar trees from other roots. Debian is just one) There are over 1000 (that is one thousand) different Linux distributions out there all asynchronously doing their own thing. How is that really much different from Windows? We seem to have got rid of XP and Vista (at least for normal desktop use, some kiosk-type systems still use them) but there are still hundreds of not thousands of variants out there. And yet, it all seem to work just fine. And it's not that much different from Linux... Admittedly I'm using one of the major distributions (Ubuntu), but it's still not the one most creative software support and yet I can still run just about anything from Houdini to Unreal to Nuke and even DaVinci Resolve. Everything "just works"., Not only the base system and all normal applications that most people use from day to day (word processing, calculator sheets, etc.), but also these specialized applications. As I said before, it's very much a catch-22 dilemma. Regarding the thousands of different Linux distributions that are "doing their own thing", most of "their own things" is really just cosmetical. There are a few (very few) base distributions, that the vast majority is a derivative of. And if an application works on the base distribution or one of its derivatives, then it's very likely that it will work on most derivatives of the base. And many other unrelated distributions as well, perhaps with a little tweaking (which is way too common in the Windows and macOS worlds as well). Edited November 24, 2024 by jpileborg Quote
Chills Posted November 24, 2024 Posted November 24, 2024 7 minutes ago, fde101 said: It is loosely the command line UNIX/Linux equivalent Pleas Note that UNIX and Linus are completely unrelated architecturally and code wise other than being POSIX compliant. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/POSIX Quote www.JAmedia.uk and www.TamworthHeritage.org.uk [Win 11 | AMD Ryzen 5950X 16 Core CPU | 128GB Ram | NVIDIA 3080TI 12GB ] [MB ASUS ProArt B550| C Drive:; 1TB M2 980 Pro | D Drive; 2TB M2 970 EVO ]
marcelboyen Posted November 24, 2024 Posted November 24, 2024 There are thousands who wouldn’t move, and thousands who would. Linux hasn’t really been a big deal for years, it is only recently that Linux has started skyrocketing, look at the statistics. (As long as they are desktop only, although Linux does technically have 70% of the mobile market with Android but that’s a different and unrelated topic). One of the main reasons people don’t use Linux is the lack of good creative apps. Quote
marcelboyen Posted November 24, 2024 Posted November 24, 2024 1 minute ago, jpileborg said: How is that really much different from Windows? We seem to have got rid of XP and Vista (at least for normal desktop use, some kiosk-type systems still use them) but there are still hundreds of not thousands of variants out there. And yet, it all seem to work just fine. And it's not that much different from Linux... Admittedly I'm using one of the major distributions (Ubuntu), but it's still not the one most creative software support and yet I can still run just about anything from Houdini to Unreal to Nuke and even DaVinci Resolve. Everything "just works"., Not only the base system and all normal applications that most people use from day to day (word processing, calculator sheets, etc.), but also these specialized applications. As I said before, it's very much a catch-22 dilemma. Regarding the thousands of different Linux distributions that are "doing their own thing", most of "their own things" is really just cosmetical. There are a few (very few) base distributions, that the vast majority is a derivative of. And if an application works on the base distribution or one of its derivatives, then it's very likely that it will work on most derivatives of the base. And many other unrelated distributions as well, perhaps with a little tweaking (which is way too common in the Windows world as well). This. And even with those base distros, Flatpak lets your app work universally on all of them. Snapseed 1 Quote
Wanesty Posted November 24, 2024 Author Posted November 24, 2024 @Chills ↓ look at the Last 90 days on there 21 minutes ago, Wanesty said: edit: if that seems low: those numbers from my guide's analytics do state that a lot of people are interested on ditching windows for linux and are interested in using affinity there also yes the userbase has been oscillating but it is still possible to see a fairly big upward trend in the last few years 9 minutes ago, Chills said: It is highly unlikely to become mainstream like Windows and IOS That is the commercial reality. pookiebear i think you meant macOS because if you didn't: can you tell me what's android's kernel? Chills 1 Quote up to date guide for the Affinity Suite on Linux : https://affinity.liz.pet, source on codeberg and a gitlab mirror
marcelboyen Posted November 24, 2024 Posted November 24, 2024 Just now, Wanesty said: @Chills ↓ also yes the userbase has been oscillating but it is still possible to see a fairly big upward trend in the last few years pookiebear i think you meant macOS because if you didn't: can you tell me what's android's kernel? Exactly! It has already gotten to 4.31% desktop marketshare not including ChromeOS, upwards from a little over 2% in about 2 years, it’s growing really fast, and part of the issues hindering the growth are lack of creative software. And yeah lol Linux technically has ~70% mobile marketshare with Android Quote
Circulus Posted November 24, 2024 Posted November 24, 2024 3 minutes ago, Wanesty said: also yes the userbase has been oscillating but it is still possible to see a fairly big upward trend in the last few years Nope https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share Quote I think Serif wants us to be only creative in finding workarounds to use their tools. I have an affinity with Jumping through Hoops and over Humps. Dealing with Speedbumps and finding Work-A-Roundabouts. I'm getting dizzy from all that spinning and jumping.
Chills Posted November 24, 2024 Posted November 24, 2024 6 minutes ago, jpileborg said: How is that really much different from Windows? Very different to Windows. Each one of those parallel lines in that Linux Chart has an ongoing development, like windows. There are also another dozen (or more) charts like that for other Linux Distros. The BIG difference is for Windows Serif will be part of the partner program and have the 2 and 5 year roadmap under NDA. They will get advance information and Alpha releases and then Beta releases. For Linux, they all do their own thing asynchronously with no warning. You try doing commercial development like that. Quote www.JAmedia.uk and www.TamworthHeritage.org.uk [Win 11 | AMD Ryzen 5950X 16 Core CPU | 128GB Ram | NVIDIA 3080TI 12GB ] [MB ASUS ProArt B550| C Drive:; 1TB M2 980 Pro | D Drive; 2TB M2 970 EVO ]
Wanesty Posted November 24, 2024 Author Posted November 24, 2024 4 minutes ago, Return said: Nope i just plotted the Linux values from this website from 2010 until now: Chills and Snapseed 1 1 Quote up to date guide for the Affinity Suite on Linux : https://affinity.liz.pet, source on codeberg and a gitlab mirror
Chills Posted November 24, 2024 Posted November 24, 2024 6 minutes ago, Wanesty said: also yes the userbase has been oscillating but it is still possible to see a fairly big upward trend in the last few years Yes, an upward trend from miniscule to insignificant. It has been doing this for 20 years. However, the chart posted shows Linux is flat lining, not an upward, nor downward, trend. For Linux to be taken seriously, ONE Linux distro has to be hitting 25% plus and consistently. Also, it has to have a guaranteed 2 and 5 year roadmap and development plan. You can't develop for 2 years for a feature that may or may not be there when you launch. Who is there at Linux Inc to sign NDA's with? Quote www.JAmedia.uk and www.TamworthHeritage.org.uk [Win 11 | AMD Ryzen 5950X 16 Core CPU | 128GB Ram | NVIDIA 3080TI 12GB ] [MB ASUS ProArt B550| C Drive:; 1TB M2 980 Pro | D Drive; 2TB M2 970 EVO ]
Wanesty Posted November 24, 2024 Author Posted November 24, 2024 4 minutes ago, Chills said: Very different to Windows. Each one of those parallel lines in that Linux Chart has an ongoing development, like windows. There are also another dozen (or more) charts like that for other Linux Distros. The BIG difference is for Windows Serif will be part of the partner program and have the 2 and 5 year roadmap under NDA. They will get advance information and Alpha releases and then Beta releases. For Linux, they all do their own thing asynchronously with no warning. You try doing commercial development like that. as you often do, you missed the main point of the argument: 14 minutes ago, jpileborg said: Regarding the thousands of different Linux distributions that are "doing their own thing", most of "their own things" is really just cosmetical. There are a few (very few) base distributions, that the vast majority is a derivative of. And if an application works on the base distribution or one of its derivatives, then it's very likely that it will work on most derivatives of the base. And many other unrelated distributions as well, perhaps with a little tweaking (which is way too common in the Windows and macOS worlds as well). OzNate 1 Quote up to date guide for the Affinity Suite on Linux : https://affinity.liz.pet, source on codeberg and a gitlab mirror
marcelboyen Posted November 24, 2024 Posted November 24, 2024 4 minutes ago, Chills said: Yes, an upward trend from miniscule to insignificant. It has been doing this for 20 years. However, the chart posted shows Linux is flat lining, not an upward, nor downward, trend. For Linux to be taken seriously, ONE Linux distro has to be hitting 25% plus and consistently. Also, it has to have a guaranteed 2 and 5 year roadmap and development plan. You can't develop for 2 years for a feature that may or may not be there when you launch. Who is there at Linux Inc to sign NDA's with? It flatlined from years, then doubled in only 2 years, from a little over 2% to 4.31% global desktop marketshare and only going up faster and faster, that’s not flatlining my friend. Quote
Chills Posted November 24, 2024 Posted November 24, 2024 6 minutes ago, Wanesty said: as you often do, you missed the main point of the argument: Unfortunately, I didn't miss the point. Though it is clear you have Affinity have stated a Linux version is not going to happen. All I was doing is explaining the whys and wherefores. However, if you are going to insist the grass is blue, you knock yourself out. Quote www.JAmedia.uk and www.TamworthHeritage.org.uk [Win 11 | AMD Ryzen 5950X 16 Core CPU | 128GB Ram | NVIDIA 3080TI 12GB ] [MB ASUS ProArt B550| C Drive:; 1TB M2 980 Pro | D Drive; 2TB M2 970 EVO ]
marcelboyen Posted November 24, 2024 Posted November 24, 2024 1 minute ago, Chills said: Unfortunately, I didn't miss the point. Though it is clear you have However, if you are going to insist the grass is blue, you knock yourself out. You clearly missed the point… Quote
Circulus Posted November 24, 2024 Posted November 24, 2024 From 0.71 % to 4.3% in 15 years and most are likely webservers which are holding all those cloud options we use today for streaming, AI and our storage. Quote I think Serif wants us to be only creative in finding workarounds to use their tools. I have an affinity with Jumping through Hoops and over Humps. Dealing with Speedbumps and finding Work-A-Roundabouts. I'm getting dizzy from all that spinning and jumping.
Wanesty Posted November 24, 2024 Author Posted November 24, 2024 25 minutes ago, Chills said: For Linux, they all do their own thing asynchronously with no warning. You try doing commercial development like that. this is untrue, it is possible to closely follow the roadmap and development of not only the kernel but the drivers, while i agree the noise of the mailing lists is a thing, there is numerous news outlets filtering and publishing them. Roadmaps aside, deprecation and deletion are often talked about and notified months to most often years in advance. It is not different as having to follow the different parts of a windows system, you want to be compatible with windows related things, directX progress and every dependencies (image formats to name an example) your software relies upon edit: and again the issue of distro discrepancies are nullified by a distribution method like Flatpak Quote up to date guide for the Affinity Suite on Linux : https://affinity.liz.pet, source on codeberg and a gitlab mirror
Wanesty Posted November 24, 2024 Author Posted November 24, 2024 11 minutes ago, Return said: From 0.71 % to 4.3% in 15 years and most are likely webservers which are holding all those cloud options we use today for streaming, AI and our storage. that's literally the source you sent, it does not include servers, it is only from users on a web browsers. the important thing to note isn't the 0.5% to 4.5% progress it is the curve of the graph not being linear but having an upward trend! Quote up to date guide for the Affinity Suite on Linux : https://affinity.liz.pet, source on codeberg and a gitlab mirror
TravisL Posted November 24, 2024 Posted November 24, 2024 Under the hood Affinity is probably a bit different to the likes of Krita and GIMP, but if photo editing and drawing software can be compatible with Linux, MacOS, and Windows then surely it's possible for Affinity to be as well. Quote
fde101 Posted November 24, 2024 Posted November 24, 2024 10 hours ago, Chills said: completely unrelated architecturally At the kernel level even UNIX systems are largely unrelated to each other any more, outside of the common system call interfaces they present to applications. For example, macOS is (or at least as of a few versions ago was - not sure if they have kept it up) a certified UNIX platform, being "real" UNIX, in spite of being built on a micro-kernel architecture, something entirely different from nearly all of the other mainstream UNIX platforms, many of which started with a common code base but have grown apart from it in their own unique ways over time. In terms of how those particular commands work, however, there isn't much of a difference. Versions of them are widely deployed on UNIX and Linux alike to do exactly the same things. Many current UNIX platforms have borrowed rather heavily from the tools created for Linux and even run the same graphical environments that are commonly seen on Linux platforms. Quote
Chills Posted November 25, 2024 Posted November 25, 2024 20 hours ago, marcelboyen said: It flatlined from years, then doubled in only 2 years, from a little over 2% to 4.31% global desktop marketshare and only going up faster and faster, that’s not flatlining my friend. OK so it is on one of its periodic highs from minuscule to insignificant. If Linux ever gets over 10% then you might have a case. However, that needs to be 10% for a particular flavour of Linux. Having looked at flatpak, that is not (yet) the answer. The fact that it is needed at all is a HUGE red flag for any commercial developer looking at Linux. However like Linux when you look into it it is not a simple or as effective as its advocates suggest. I expect we will still be having the same discussions in a decades time with Linux still around the 5% mark, if you are lucky. It has been oscillating between 1-5% for 30 years. Quote www.JAmedia.uk and www.TamworthHeritage.org.uk [Win 11 | AMD Ryzen 5950X 16 Core CPU | 128GB Ram | NVIDIA 3080TI 12GB ] [MB ASUS ProArt B550| C Drive:; 1TB M2 980 Pro | D Drive; 2TB M2 970 EVO ]
Frozen Death Knight Posted November 25, 2024 Posted November 25, 2024 On 11/24/2024 at 12:45 PM, Wanesty said: i know moderators don't really read this topic anymore but if there is a single thing to take from it and push to higher ups is this ^ edit: this is also the reason why people are so insistent and pretty much expect it Fact. I still have Windows 10 installed on another hard drive just in case, but I haven't booted up Windows for months now. Been happily working on Linux Mint 22 for multiple game projects and counting this year alone. I have also started moving over to Krita because the current artistic work I do can be done in Krita alone. I would have preferred to keep using Affinity, but my current needs are being met sufficiently. I left Adobe the moment I saw that Affinity was sufficient enough for what I used Photoshop for and at this rate I am just going to work with Linux compatible software or those that are able to work through Proton/Wine. If I get Affinity to work at some point through alternative means, then that's good. Though, I have so far kept to my word that I won't be coming back to Windows any time soon. If I could replace Adobe, then so can I do with Affinity if absolutely needed. Snapseed and Wanesty 2 Quote
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