Missing umlauts in Publisher

[Gnobelix]

Hello together,
following problem.
I have created a document in Publisher and export it as PDF files.
(The Font is Cambria and can umlauts)
When the exported PDF file are opened in Publisher, no umlauts are displayed, why?
In Acrobat Reader the umlauts are displayed correctly.
What am I doing wrong?

Cheers

[kenmcd]

How did you enter the characters with the umlauts?

Can you attach the PDF?

 

[Gnobelix]

1 hour ago, LibreTraining said:

How did you enter the characters with the umlauts?

Can you attach the PDF?

 

I entered the umlauts with a normal German Windows keyboard.

Affinity-Photo_Störende_Objekte entfernen-2-2.pdf

[walt.farrell]

12 minutes ago, Gnobelix said:

I entered the umlauts with a normal German Windows keyboard.

But what keystrokes, exactly?

Can you share the .afpub file, too?

 

[Gnobelix]

14 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

But what keystrokes, exactly?

Can you share the .afpub file, too?

 

Hello walt,

the keystrokes are like other letters, e.g. a is a keystroke Ö is a keystroke etc.

Cheers

Affinity-Photo_Störende_Objekte entfernen.afpub

[kenmcd]

2 hours ago, Gnobelix said:

When the exported PDF file are opened in Publisher, no umlauts are displayed, why?
In Acrobat Reader the umlauts are displayed correctly.

Because the characters with umlautes are embedded as two separate characters.
For example, your original document has "Häufig" in the first paragraph.
The ä (00E4) is embedded as both the a (0061) and the combining diaeresis  ̈  (0308).
It should be just the 00E4 character.
That is a bug.

Does not matter if font sub-setting is On or Off in the PDF export settings.

Note: you will also have issues with the ligatures such as fi when doing this.

[Gnobelix]

6 minutes ago, LibreTraining said:

Because the characters with umlautes are embedded as two separate characters.
For example, your original document has "Häufig" in the first paragraph.
The ä (00E4) is embedded as both the a (0061) and the combining diaeresis  ̈  (0308).
It should be just the 00E4 character.
That is a bug.

Does not matter if font sub-setting is On or Off in the PDF export settings.

Note: you will also have issues with the ligatures such as fi when doing this.

Thank you for the explanation.

Cheers

[kenmcd]

I was looking at this a little more ...
The problem may be related to how they handle composite characters.

In this font the ä (00E4) character is a composite of the a (0061) and the diaeresis ¨(00A8).
So it appears there is an error in how Affinity and/or PDFlib are handling composites.
Specifically with diaeresis ¨(00A8) and combining diaeresis  ̈  (0308) getting confused
and composites being decomposed.

 

 

[walt.farrell]

13 minutes ago, LibreTraining said:

So it appears there is an error in how Affinity and/or PDFlib are handling composites.

Or should the font be using 00e4 rather than a composite set of characters?

[kenmcd]

28 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

Or should the font be using 00e4 rather than a composite set of characters?

The font is using 00E4.
In TrueType fonts you can use other glyphs/characters to make composite characters.
So you only have to draw the combining diaeresis  ̈  (0308) once, and then every character which needs a diaeresis just points to that one as a component.
Saves space in the font.
And if you make a change to that component, all the other composites which use it are also changed automatically.
Which also helps the font developer greatly.
Composites can optionally be removed (flattened) when exporting the finished font, but the font will be bigger.

I think what may be happening here is Affinity/PDFlib has a problem with or is confused by using the diaeresis ¨(00A8), rather than the combining diaeresis  ̈  (0308) as the component.
But Cambria is like this, Arial is too, etc. ... so this will be an issue.

Regardless, they should not be decomposing a composite character.

[thomaso]

29 minutes ago, LibreTraining said:

Affinity and/or PDFlib

Since Win and Mac use different PDFLibs: Both the PDF of the OP and a PDF exported from the .afpub on macOS show the same result on mac: While the Umlaute appear fine, the ff ligature does not, and it differs between Cambria bold and regular.

[kenmcd]

4 minutes ago, thomaso said:

Both the PDF of the OP and a PDF exported from the .afpub on macOS show the same result

The issue is when the PDF is re-opened in APub for editing.
Then the codes behind the shapes (characters) are the problem.

[thomaso]

2 minutes ago, LibreTraining said:

The issue is when the PDF is re-opened in APub for editing.
Then the codes behind the shapes (characters) are the problem.

Yes, my screenshot shows the re-opened PDF. So, since I don't see on mac issues with ä, ö, ü but with ff only, it seems Affinity interprets these chars differently on Win vs. Mac when opening the same PDF.

[kenmcd]

2 minutes ago, thomaso said:

Yes, my screenshot shows the re-opened PDF.

When you copy the "Häu" from the first word in the the first paragraph, and you paste it into a plain text editor what happens?

Could you please attach that PDF so I can see what is in there?
Would be very interesting if it is different on the Mac.

[v_kyr]

Quote

Cambria is distributed with all Windows versions since Windows Vista, all Microsoft Office versions since Microsoft Office 2007 for Windows and Microsoft Office 2008 for Mac, and Microsoft Office 2007 viewers and converters. Cambria (Regular) and Cambria Math are packaged together as a TrueType Collection (TTC) file. Microsoft Office 2008 for Mac does not include Cambria Math, as OMML is not supported. Therefore, the Macintosh version of Cambria is packaged as individual TrueType Font (TTF) files, rather than a single TTC file.

[thomaso]

19 minutes ago, LibreTraining said:

When you copy the "Häu" from the first word in the the first paragraph, and you paste it into a plain text editor what happens?

Again, no issues with Umlaute but ff ligature. Didn't notice before: the ligature in the re-opened Windows PDF appears as 'B' while from the mac PDF it is 'A'.
Here's the PDF exported on mac from the OP's .afpub:  Umlaute Cambria_macOS PDFLib.pdf

Copied from the two re-opend PDFs to TextEdit:

[kenmcd]

1 minute ago, thomaso said:

Here's the PDF exported on mac from the OP's .afpub:  Umlaute Cambria_macOS PDFLib.pdf

That is very interesting.
Your exported PDF does have the correct ä (00E4) character in that first word.

So it appears it is just an issue on Windows.

[thomaso]

12 minutes ago, v_kyr said:

Microsoft Office 2008 for Mac does not include Cambria Math, as OMML is not supported. Therefore, the Macintosh version of Cambria is packaged as individual TrueType Font (TTF) files, rather than a single TTC file.

FWIW, the Cambria on macOS (where it is not part of macOS but Microsoft apps only). I don't have a OpenType  TrueType version for a comparison like @v_kyr did.

Edited April 6, 2022 by thomaso
text: TrueType, not OpenType

[kenmcd]

49 minutes ago, thomaso said:

FWIW, the Cambria on macOS (where it is not part of macOS but Microsoft apps only). I don't have a OpenType  TrueType version for a comparison like @v_kyr did.

Cambria is an OpenType-TT (.ttf/.ttc) font. There is no OpenType-PS (.otf) version.

I did look at the two versions for the Mac that I do have:
- Microsoft.Office.2019.for.Mac.16.23.VL
- Microsoft.Office.LTSC.for.Mac.2021.v16.54.VL
Both have the Regular and the Math, two fonts, in one TTC file. Both are v6.900.(6.90i).
The other 3 styles are in .ttf files - Italic, Bold, Bold Italic.
I wanted to see if the composites had been removed (which should eliminate this issue).
Neither of those two versions had composites removed.

I have not been able to get hold of any of the Regular style when provided as a .ttf file.
On Windows it has been a TTC since v1.02 (first one I have).
Office 365 for Mac may provide the individual TTF file as a cloud font.

1 hour ago, thomaso said:

 

What version of Office for Mac is this? with the separate TTF files?

Any font version without composites should not have this issue.
So I would like to see the actual font you used to see if it has composites or not.

[thomaso]

51 minutes ago, LibreTraining said:

Cambria is an OpenType-TT (.ttf/.ttc) font. There is no OpenType-PS (.otf) version.
(...)
What version of Office for Mac is this? with the separate TTF files?

Oh, I am still confusing this two OpenType versions, with the older TrueType in mind which is not OpenType. (how do you call those non-OpenType TrueType?)

My Cambria is from Office 2011, font file dates 04 June 2015, version 5.96 (5.97 for the Regular).
See PM… EDIT: I can't send it

Edited April 6, 2022 by thomaso

[kenmcd]

1 hour ago, thomaso said:

Oh, I am still confusing this two OpenType versions, with the older TrueType in mind which is not OpenType. (how do you call those non-OpenType TrueType?)

Yes, I call those old original TrueType fonts (they are not OpenType with TrueType outlines).
The Cambria2 that v_kyr shows in the image above appears to be an actual old TrueType file.
Based on the icons: the O for OpenType-TT, and the TT for old TrueType.
But as far as I know, Cambria has only been released as OpenType with TrueType outlines.
So I am not sure where he got that font (and with the odd name).
Looks like somebody made it.
But I like to find old oddities, perhaps it was released with some app, or ... ?

1 hour ago, thomaso said:

My Cambria is from Office 2011, font file dates 04 June 2015, version 5.96 (5.97 for the Regular).
See PM… EDIT: I can't send it

This is odd.
My InBox shows only 1% of storage used, and other people have sent me texts.
Perhaps try again with a link to a free upload site (like workupload.com which I have used here).
I do also have the v5.96 TTC file which came with Office Professional 2010 for Windows.
But I would definitely like to see what is in the TTF files which were delivered separately.
Thanks.

[thomaso]

1 hour ago, LibreTraining said:

other people have sent me texts.

When I try to send you text (w/o attachment or link) I get the same error. Can you send me any? – Here's the Cambria.zip at workupload.

Edited April 7, 2022 by thomaso

[kenmcd]

18 minutes ago, thomaso said:

When I try to send you text (w/o attachment or link) I get the same error. Can you send me any? – Here's the ZIP at workupload.

OK. Got it. Thanks.

[kenmcd]

That separate Regular TTF also has the same composite characters.
So the difference between PC & Mac may what you said above, the PDFlib or something else.

[kenmcd]

1 hour ago, thomaso said:

Can you send me any?

Just sent you a text and it seem to go fine.