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1 minute ago, thomaso said:

Are you using it?

Absolutely! As I just mentioned, two I use quite often are SHIFT+C for the Character panel & SHIFT+P for the Paragraph panel. I usually keep them together in a floating tabbed group of two but when it is more convenient I just drag one out so each is in its own floating panel. And unlike some windows they remember where on screen I placed them so I can keep them out of the way off to the side of the screen.

The one I use more than any other is ` (the back quote found on US Mac keyboards to the left of the 1 key, pared with the tilde) to toggle the Left Studio. So for instance, in AD that is where I keep Assets, Symbols, & Constraints in a single tab group, & in AP where I keep Library, Assets, & Macro. Since it is a single key shortcut it is among the quickest & easiest to use.

18 minutes ago, thomaso said:

... aside the fact that just the paragraph panel or the text frame panel can fill the screen height by themself if one really wants to avoid switching on/off.

Yes, some of the panels are very tall, particularly when they have multiple sections & all of them are expanded, but what do you suggest as an alternative? Even more panels or more modal windows or a cascade of nested modal ones like some of the old Mac System 7 apps used? Every feature any app supports has to have some kind of UI to access it, so what would you prefer to replace or in addition to what Affinity already offers?

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39 minutes ago, thomaso said:

For instance the stroke width in the Context Toolbar...

Can you explain more about what extra click is involved with that?

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4 hours ago, R C-R said:

As I just mentioned, two I use quite often are SHIFT+C for the Character panel & SHIFT+P for the Paragraph panel.

Ah, okay. I thought first you would toggle between complete studio presets while working depending on the current object. – Yes, I also use custom shortcuts for hiding panels, all: tab | left: ctr < | right: opt <. That works well to increase space for the layout, it doesn't help to avoid the need to open / unfold / collaps certain panels, or move a panel around alternatively. To me it is the clicking which feels wrong, I think there should be more automatic occurrence, either depending on objects (contextual) or by hovering over certain spots (e.g. to unfold a panel's section or to make panels slide in from the right or left screen edge).

4 hours ago, R C-R said:

Can you explain more about what extra click is involved with that?

The stroke editor in the Context Tool Bar is designed like a slider and takes space like a slider but actually it is just a button + a value.
Strange, obviously it is not obvious… while it was to me from the first day

1801199718_strokecontextbarclicks1.jpg.701022118f8bd23fc8d2aa4a3413afcc.jpg  –>  1947751060_strokecontextbarclicks2.jpg.eaa649d19242117a5da5bbc77813a3d6.jpg


If this button must not be used as slider why wasn't its space used instead for the left-over items at the right toolbar edge? I miss lock children in the bar!
(which, by the way, also require a click to open though just hovering could work, too.) (ps: note the duplicated align buttons, here the contextuals are superfluous)

1419634322_contextbar-add-onsrightarrows.thumb.jpg.0456fd94a9c6b4c24aa42b90a4510dde.jpg

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3 hours ago, thomaso said:

The stroke editor in the Context Tool Bar is designed like a slider {...} 

 but actually it is just a button + a value.

It should be obvious that it is not a slider since it has no slider (no knob or handle), nor is it just a button + a value. In fact, if there is no stroke there is just a greyed out line with a red slash through it; if the stroke uses a dash style the dash is previewed there; if it has line ends (arrows) that is previewed; & likewise for a bitmap.

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3 hours ago, thomaso said:

That works well to increase space for the layout, it doesn't help to avoid the need to open / unfold / collaps certain panels, or move a panel around alternatively.

I am not sure what you mean. Like I said, for the Character & Paragraph panels, the keyboard shortcuts work great -- so there is no need to move or collapse them.

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18 hours ago, joe_l said:

C:\Users\yourname\AppData\Roaming\Affinity\Publisher\1.0\Workspaces\Custom

That's the location, albeit for me its Photo instead of Publisher. None of my file searches found it as it creates a FOLDER with the name of the Workspace and I didn't think to look for that.

Thank you.

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9 hours ago, R C-R said:

It should be obvious that it is not a slider since it has no slider (no knob or handle), nor is it just a button + a value.

I am used to various types of sliders, a knob or handle is not compulsory for the slider functionality. Most common is the slider at videos (combining a process bar with slider functionality), also a jog wheel works like a slider without knob.

Correct, the stroke button shows more than "just" a common button by its flexible visual button states, indicating some of the currently set stroke properties. Nevertheless, I still feel > expect this UI item style to have the functionality to change stroke width, while the current visual indicators would not have to be eliminated. – It's interesting that the pencil / brush tools don't show this UI element at all, though stroke is one of their typical, nearly mandatory attitudes, for those objects this UI item appears only after switching to the move tool.

9 hours ago, R C-R said:

I am not sure what you mean. Like I said, for the Character & Paragraph panels, the keyboard shortcuts work great -- so there is no need to move or collapse them.

Shortcuts don't help to collapse / unfold the sections of panels, as used not only in Character and Paragraph but also e.g. in Text Frame, Table, Fields. They are influenced by other panels docked above and below them. To access panel sections scrolling is not enabled and you need to either click-hold-drag their scrollbar or double-click a panel above/below to increase the available screen space to make an unfolded section visible.

For instance in the setup sample below: To access the – unfolded but invisible – Vertical Position in the Text Frame Panel I must click, either in the Context Toolbar or in the panel an unfolded section above (General) or the name / title bar of a panel below (Colour or Swatches). Alternatively I can click + hold + drag the panel's scrollbar, whereas for scrolling in the Affinity panel UI the mouse scroll wheel is not allowed, neither for the scrollbar nor when hovering the panel's section names or empty area. In Affinity panels the scroll wheel only works when hovering numerical value fields.

1484474894_screenpanelsetupsampletxtfrm.thumb.jpg.37dd47579fb397b5b275dcd55de65dfe.jpg

Another click-force experience occurs on accessing a value field of object alignment in the Toolbar. Its requires four (4 !) clicks every time to allow me to type a value. And even if used once and I want to reuse it for other or the same objects then its dialog always opens in its default state and demands the 4 clicks again. Plus 1 click to apply my value. Feels really weird.

870934283_alignmentvalueclicks.jpg.2c5c646106c735ba8e53997238b1c945.jpg

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2 hours ago, thomaso said:

Nevertheless, I still feel > expect this UI item style to have the functionality to change stroke width, while the current visual indicators would not have to be eliminated.

Why should stroke width get special treatment vs. any other stroke attribute that can be accessed by clicking on that button to open the stroke attribute menu? More to the point, how would that work? If you could just click & drag on the button to change the stroke width, how would you want or expect that button to also open the menu? I do not see how it could have both functions at the same time -- either it is a slider or a button that opens a menu.

2 hours ago, thomaso said:

Shortcuts don't help to collapse / unfold the sections of panels, as used not only in Character and Paragraph but also e.g. in Text Frame, Table, Fields.

I am not claiming they do. But they can eliminate the need to collapse panels because they provide a quick & easy way to open & close floated panels, & they preserve their last set screen position & how much of the longer ones they show. To see what I mean, for example test setting a shortcut for the Paragraph panel. Open that panel, position it somewhere on the screen, & set its height to show as much or as little of it as you want. Optionally, collapse any sections you don't use often like maybe bullets and/or tab stops, so the items you most often use all fit into it without te need to scroll. Now use the shortcut to toggle it closed & then to open it again. Note that everything you set while it was open is preserved.

Try the same thing with the Character panel, optionally by grouping it with the Paragraph panel. You now have a pair of shortcuts for those two panels so you do not have to collapse them to keep them from covering up anything else.

3 hours ago, thomaso said:

... whereas for scrolling in the Affinity panel UI the mouse scroll wheel is not allowed, neither for the scrollbar nor when hovering the panel's section names or empty area. In Affinity panels the scroll wheel only works when hovering numerical value fields.

It is true that the scroll wheel does not work in many of the panels -- that was reported as a bug long ago & has not yet been corrected. However, it does work for some of them, like in the Swatches, Effects, & Styles panels. 

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On 1/25/2022 at 6:43 PM, R C-R said:

Why should stroke width get special treatment vs. any other stroke attribute that can be accessed by clicking on that button to open the stroke attribute menu?

Several reasons:
• Because the interface takes already the space of a slider. (…although the Context Toolbar is limited in space and needs its right arrow button to display left-overs)
• Because sometimes you need to adjust just the stroke width and are fine with the defaults or currently set attributes.
• You already alter 1 stroke attribute separately from all other stroke properties: The colour. (…an especially ineffective UX if you use the Stroke Panel)

Since we are there:
• Do you know any reason why the Fill and Stroke UI items do not appear if more than 1 object is selected – but prefer to display empty space in the Context Toolbar?

1867424649_contexttoolbarstrokefillwithmorethan1object.thumb.jpg.30404714d18908d3d2ef2720e797c0b2.jpg

On 1/25/2022 at 6:43 PM, R C-R said:

More to the point, how would that work?

With mouse button down while hovering the UI item: If the cursor position changes the stroke width gets changed + nothing happens on button release, – else it opens the dialog on button release.
• Click (= mouse button down + up): Opens dialog
• Click-Drag (= button down + slide): Sets width.

Compare the 3 functions combined on a video process bar:
• UI changes with video (no user interaction)
• Click: Video jumps to this position
• Hover / Slide / Click-Drag: Displays video thumbnails
 

On 1/25/2022 at 6:43 PM, R C-R said:

a quick & easy way to open & close floated panels, & they preserve their last set screen position & how much of the longer ones they show.

True, whereas use of shortcuts might not feel suitable to everybodie's habits (some use shortcuts intensively, others prefer mouse / pen moves) – or to every situation: for instance when editing text (= text cursor active) using shortcuts for character, paragraph, text frame panels may fail or require switching the tool.

Preserve screen position: For dialog windows this appears not to work consistently and varies with dialog type / height. For instance adjustment dialog positions seem to behave generally different than filter dialogs and their windows sometimes get oriented at the bottom edge, sometimes at the upper edge of a previous dialog. So preserving a windows position may feel both comfortable or as disadvantage. For instance when using adjustment dialogs positioned anywhere on the layout close to its related object, the same position may require to get moved next time using the same or another adjustment dialog, in particular if their windows have different height. This can get even worse when working with two monitors: then the position of a small dialog can cause a larger dialog to appear separately on the two screens.

Back to the topic and sorting the UI/UX by possibly required user actions, I would rank them according to their ease of use:
1. context related automatically occurrence | compare: context toolbar, status bar
2. unfold & scroll panel sections on hovering | compare: tooltip's auto-occurrence
3. unfold + auto-scroll on clicking a collapsed panel section title
4. auto-scroll on clicking an unfolded panel section title | compare: auto-scroll in Layers or Pages panel
5. … (the currently available UX, e.g. click-drag-panel-scrollbar and shortcut keys)

However, what I wanted to point out by expanding this topic was actually just the space for improvement in the UI item layouts and their interaction consistency and efficiency. UI and UX just can influence the felt quality of an app even more than its features if it doesn't feel comfortable (intuitive). I am aware this is not only individually different but also, possible space for improvements may be hard to detect for users who are used to what they have and know. This habits affect Affinity developers and users switching from other apps with a very different result.

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2 hours ago, thomaso said:

Several reasons:
• Because the interface takes already the space of a slider. 

Not true. Compare the width of the Width slider to the total width of the button that opens that popup menu:

Stroke.jpg.2073319fd5fd12ecb34eba9326ce53b8.jpg

2 hours ago, thomaso said:

Because sometimes you need to adjust just the stroke width and are fine with the defaults or currently set attributes.

And sometimes the width is fine but you want to adjust one or more of the other 9+ stroke attributes. So again, why should the width get special consideration?

2 hours ago, thomaso said:

With mouse button down while hovering the UI item: If the cursor position changes the stroke width gets changed + nothing happens on button release, – else it opens the dialog on button release.

I would greatly dislike that behavior! I do not want to have to take any extra time to be careful not to move the pointer if I want to pop open the menu.  I would not object to adding a scroll wheel function here though, so if I just placed the pointer over the button (or maybe just the numerical width part of it) without clicking, I could vary the stroke width.

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12 minutes ago, R C-R said:

So again, why should the width get special consideration?

The various reasons don't disappear if you disagree, your "Not true" included: The button already takes space of a slider. Note: "a" slider, not "the". Not using the space means wasting it. If you like, this slider-like UI item should not set the width but any other of the 9+ attributs. Which one do you wish? And how would that work? ;)

If you continue arguing with "whataboutism":
– Why does this botton / the stroke width display get special consideration in the current UI? Obviously the stroke width is meant to deserve special consideration, which made it occur there. In its slider-like design & dimension ;•)
– Why does this button not appear at all if more than one object is selected? Because the toolbar is meant to give special consideration to empty space this time? Well, why is empty space meant to get more consideration than stroke width then (or any other of the 9+ stroke attributes if you like)?

You still seem to misunderstand my goal. I am not fighting for any certain design or my favourite attribute getting special consideration. I just want to illustrate with various examples that the current UI still has several spots for improvement for more efficient workflows. Some of them concern their design only, others affect their behaviour and code.

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13 minutes ago, thomaso said:

If you like, this slider-like UI item should not set the width but any other of the 9+ attributs. Which one do you wish? And how would that work?

First, to me it is not a "slider-like" UI item. It is a button that pops open a menu. Like some other buttons, it also shows certain information about the current state of some attribute(s), but does not make it slider-like in any respect other than being wider than most other UI buttons, which it must be to clearly provide the current state info I find quite useful.

More to the point, I do not want it to set any stroke attribute. I just want it to do what it does now, which is open the menu if clicked & show the info otherwise.

26 minutes ago, thomaso said:

– Why does this botton / the stroke width display get special consideration in the current UI?

Why should it not be displayed in the button? It is the only single-valued numeric stroke attribute. For me, its usefulness in displaying that attribute far exceeds any space saving removing it would provide.

31 minutes ago, thomaso said:

I am not fighting for any certain design or my favourite attribute getting special consideration. I just want to illustrate with various examples that the current UI still has several spots for improvement for more efficient workflows.

I understand that. I am just saying that whatever you might see as an improvement for that particular context toolbar button may not be seen as an improvement by others. 

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32 minutes ago, R C-R said:

I am just saying that whatever you might see as an improvement for that particular context toolbar button may not be seen as an improvement by others. 

Ah. I would never expect 100% agreement. At least those who really don't care about one feature might disagree just to force another instead. People and politics ;)

1951515537_muhheremootheremoo.jpg.3b3d720ecb282a40c8035b58997e42e3.jpg

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55 minutes ago, thomaso said:

I would never expect 100% agreement.

Even 10% agreement on something like this could be hard to find. For instance, some might prefer that users could somehow set a preference for one stroke attribute so it could be modified without opening the menu, maybe by the click-drag method you mentioned, while others would object to that as an unneeded complication or as making it too easy to change the attribute by accident. Still others might want that to work for one attribute for horizontal drags & for another for vertical ones.

Some might want the button to be simplified to a narrow one that displayed no info to make more room for other items, possibly as yet another user settable preference, or to automatically do that when there are more items in the context toolbar than will fit.

So basically, instead of just two circles in the Venn diagram there could be dozens of them with no one place where they all overlap.

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On 1/24/2022 at 11:38 PM, thomaso said:

Nevertheless, it doesn't prevent you from the need to show / hide panels again and again … at least you don't need to re-arrange them repeatedly this way but just click on their names instead. – And, it doesn't solve the pixel wasting layout of dialog windows of course which nearly always force the user to move them if they get opened.

I guess there's always going to be a tradeoff...as unhappy that can make us at times.

 

On 1/24/2022 at 11:38 PM, thomaso said:

One of my "favourites" is the Text Style Editor window, which seems to know exactly how to cover the text that is being styled … although it has massively empty space in the layout of its various sections.

Ooo, I love that one too! And the way the HSL covers the image so you can't see what's going on...unless of course you have the Navigation panel open, then you can see what's occurring--in minature. I need new glasses.🧐 Another favourite is the way the layer panel opens on the right side of the screen 95% of the time. Then BANG! Out of nowhere it's open on the left. Really disturbing when you're in the zone.🤪

 

Thanks for the links. The one about floating panels explains exactly what happened to my studio--I accidentally undocked the entire group of panels. Who knew I was a magician? I can make things levitate without trying.😂

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5 hours ago, thomaso said:

Ah. I would never expect 100% agreement. At least those who really don't care about one feature might disagree just to force another instead. People and politics ;)

Careful what you say buddy, some of us are bloody animals!🤣😂

Herd Dissent.jpg

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On 1/25/2022 at 3:31 AM, thomaso said:

Yes, this illustration in this icons for pages, artboards or canvases has no function. They all look the same, have same size and aspect ratio, ignore page orientation or confuse it, some have 1 others have 2 borders (for any reason?), and each of them insists to keep being highlighted even if you have altered one of its properties in the right details column. – Personally I would prefer to replace that large icons with a list view, with or without tiny thumbnails in correct ratio, maybe indicating color space (rgb/4c) and with some main properties in the list, sortable by various aspects (e.g. name / long edge dimension / aspect ratio, …).

I use all that inner space to name what the preset is for. For example, if you used a site called Intergalactic Shadenfreude which needed a banner of 1063x227, then the space can easily be used to name the site and say what the preset is for (i.e., banner). It could just as easily be listed, as you suggest, thus saving space, but is there really a need since the window automatically disappears the moment you create the canvas/artboard.

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On 1/28/2022 at 2:28 AM, Gignero said:

It could just as easily be listed, as you suggest, thus saving space, but is there really a need since the window automatically disappears the moment you create the canvas/artboard.

A list view could reduce the need to scroll to access presets at the lower area. But "need" is not the only question here, I mentioned this window because it demonstrates quite obvious the various goals of layouts across the app UI. May be it is caused by different designers during development (this window became implemented in a later app version) or by different or changing concepts, like "maximum screen space efficiency" versus "maximum screen space usage". Yes, different to other panels or dialogs, the "New…" window can easily get set to fullscreen size without any harm or influence to a layout currently in process – but is there an advantage in this spacy layout of icons + their paddings? Does it really help to find & read a preset like your "Intergalactic Shadenfreude 1063 x 227" if this info is placed within + below a rounded rectangle with two borders and with some line breaks? Or might a different layout help to find, read, sort and lock your preset? For instance…

95360518_newdialogiconcolor.png.e6f3c95d37b027799c5c1a327b3bc685.png|  My custom preset for client xy  |  1063 x 227 |  px  |  491060570_newdialogiconratio.png.bc0b3d017eba021cbefbc1b417e595f1.png  4.68 : 1 - 35528940_newdialogiconratiolock.png.ba85b2170119290f748f4e257fa49932.png  567339736_newdialogiconpresetlock.png.d720fad7b9499f2b770e0e947bbae89c.png  |

macOS 10.14.6, MacBookPro Retina 15" + Eizo 27"

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23 hours ago, thomaso said:

Yes, different to other panels or dialogs, the "New…" window can easily get set to fullscreen size without any harm or influence to a layout currently in process – but is there an advantage in this spacy layout of icons + their paddings? Does it really help to find & read a preset like your "Intergalactic Shadenfreude 1063 x 227" if this info is placed within + below a rounded rectangle with two borders and with some line breaks? Or might a different layout help to find, read, sort and lock your preset? For instance…

95360518_newdialogiconcolor.png.e6f3c95d37b027799c5c1a327b3bc685.png|  My custom preset for client xy  |  1063 x 227 |  px  |  491060570_newdialogiconratio.png.bc0b3d017eba021cbefbc1b417e595f1.png  4.68 : 1 - 35528940_newdialogiconratiolock.png.ba85b2170119290f748f4e257fa49932.png  567339736_newdialogiconpresetlock.png.d720fad7b9499f2b770e0e947bbae89c.png  |

I guess it largely depends on what you're used to. And the "New" window is the least of it. The other windows that open on top of the document you are working on are a different ball game and are really annoying when they pop up on top of your document so you can't see...as mentioned earlier.

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