CedarHouse

Have had a re-think over the last couple of days regarding the new "Resample" title. Think now that it is a reasonable title for the action of the crop tool set. Tried to see whether one can change the aspect ratio from within the "Resample" tool. Played around with many different options for increasing (up-sampling) an image. Used the canvas resize and selection method to change the width or height of an image and then resize. Also used the resample method to increase the size of the image in either pixels or unit dimensions. Tried to increase image size to different aspect ratios by just changing one dimension in either the height or in the width from the Camera ratio of 1.507 to 1.0 to different ratios such as 1.33 to 1, 1.25 to 1 or 1.618 to 1. Basically up-sampling images in either width or height to produce a different aspect ratio from the original ratio of 1.507 to 1. Some of these are in the presets, but the presets work in a different way. My original image was 4950px by 3284px so wanted to maintain the 4950px value but resize to different ratios in the height only. Came to the conclusion that I could do with a ratio box within the Resample crop tool to be able to change the image size by using direct ratio entry to get a different aspect ratio without having to resort to a calculator to calculate the change in height or width dimensions, whether pixels or unit lengths. Sometimes the new ratio selected made the crop grid go out beyond the image area and needed to be dragged back in. Not sure how this can be addressed to ensure the crop grid "rubber bands" back in to the image.

Quite like current beta version .445 and crop choices available. Would it be possible to "rubber band" the crop grid boundary so that it cannot go past the edges of the original image particularly with reference to the newly named "Resample" cropping tool? I am not quite convinced that the term "Resample" is quite the correct term for this tool. Done a bit of a search of other photo editing software and common terms used elsewhere is A. "Original Ratio". B. "Original Proportions" and C. "Preserve Aspect Ratio". There may be other terms I have not come across as of yet. The other possible thought is in the new "Resample" tool is to include a box to adequately describe the Original image ratio. eg 4950px by 3284px could be also described as (1:1.507). The "Resize Document" does allow the size to change in relation to the aspect ratio when the padlock is locked. Just wonder whether a similar function could be available in the "Resample" tool when selecting a new size or resize greater than the original image size at the same time maintaining the original proportions of the original image or aspect ratio. For the image stated above at 4950px by 3284px why does the Custom Ratio then describe the ratio as 2475px by 1642px (50% of the original pixel count)? Could this tool set be used as the conversion tool to show the true custom ratio as 1:1.507 or similar. Other images could have different ratios and the "Custom Ratio" should be able to save the ratio in a more appropriate format to describe the aspect ratio as a fraction and save this for future use as a preset. There are other common ratios of say 3:2 but this is still not the same ratio as 1:1.507. End up losing a small strip out of the original image aspect ratio. Other camera sensor ratios may also have different aspect ratios.

I needed a bit of time to do a bit of research. I presume that the Absolute Size tool is a Digital Zoom. Quoting from Wikipedia. Digital Zoom is a method of decreasing the apparent angle of view of a digital photographic image. Digital zoom is accomplished by cropping an image down to a centered area with the same aspect ratio as the original and usually also interpolating the result back up to the pixel dimensions of the original. If only one had said this from the beginning I would have understood the function. Maybe the Absolute Size title should be changed to "Digital Zoom" or similar to describe more closely the function of the tool. Confused between the action in Affinity Photo 1.6 and the new version 1.7. Now I see the potential of this new crop method. The change of the apparent angle of view in the digital zoom, I presume is the equivalent of using a lens on the camera of a longer focal length but producing an image with the same aspect ratio and same size both in units of length and pixel sizes. (No need for expensive long focal length lenses?) Both edited images attached are from the same image, sized using the Absolute Size tool at 300 DPi - 16.43in by 10.88in and also 4928px by 3264px in both cases. These have also been down-sampled using Export to JPG from the original .afphoto file format.

Sorry to be a nuisance in this as I am a bit stuck with the limits of the current crop tools in Affinity Photo. Maybe as I have suggested previously the Absolute Size needs to change it's name to show the purpose of that particular crop operation. I find the term Absolute Size confusing as I had got it into my head that the Absolute Size was the pixel size of the original image (ex 4950px by 3284px) and as one cropped the image to a lower size of pixels say 4800px by 3000px then the image size in inches or millimetres should change according to the DPI changes. The Unconstrained works the way I want it to, but despite entering unit dimensions in inches etc it still only shows the image size in pixels. I would be very happy use the Unconstrained tool but would like to flip from inches to millimetres where I can just to check that I have got the correct size, without having to resort to a calculator. The old Absolute Size used to this up to version 1.6. But not now as I now need to go through a two stage process to get a cropped image size to a defined unit of measurement in inches or millimetres as long as I do not start changing the DPI value in the Absolute Crop mode.

Just a further set of screen grab files for explanation of re-sample and re-sizing from [photoshopessentials.com] > Basics > Lesson 06 (8 Lessons) How to crop images in Photoshop CC.

Sorry to keep pressing the point. Why does one want to resample in a crop tool. As far as I am aware no other photo software resamples in the crop tool, unless some one can prove me wrong. Photoshop Support > Adobe.com > Advanced cropping, resizing and resample, specifically states the resampling is not done during cropping, See Attached files.

Hi Mark. As referenced in the above posts it would be nice to use the Unconstrained crop option but it is in pixels only. There are no other dimension units available. Want to crop images to a specific size (or the closest size that can be achieved) for printing onto paper media. Attached an edited image each image was cropped and sized to the same exact size, pasted and spaced on a canvas for a 16in by 12in paper media. PAGBMastersofPrint.pdf

The Resize Document with the Resample unticked now is working as I would expect it too. It is keeping the original pixel dimensions intact and only changing unit length dimensions dependant on the DPI values chosen. Like the extra line giving the hint of the resize actions. Saves having to use a calculator to check dimensions. Only element now to consider is the same action for the Absolute Size crop tool. Needs the original pixel dimensions to be locked as per the Resize Document and on changing the DPI value the unit dimensions in the vertical and horizontal direction changes. Currently in this Beta version 434 if one has set a Resize Document size as 51.562in by 34.208in @ 96 DPI and open the crop tool Absolute size and change the DPI value to 300 the pixels in the Crop display goes from 4950px by 3284px too 15468px by 10262px. The dimensions at 51.562in by 34.208in are not changing. These should be changing as the DPI changes. The pixel dimensions should never change unless one is down-sampling or up-sampling in the Resize Document with resample checked or using the Export to down-sample images for web or a particular dimension to suit a display device. 300 divide by 96 is equal to 3.125. 4950px times 3.125 is equal to 15468.75px. 3284px times 3.125 is equal to 10262.5px. What should be happening is that - 51.562in divided by 3.125 is equal to 16.499in. 34.208in divide by 3.125 is equal to 10.946in. The dimension of 16.5in by 10.947 at 300 DPI is 4950px by 3284px is the required size as confirmed in the Resize Document. The original image size in pixels is 4950px by 3284px. The crop tools should only be used for light trimming of an image file or to crop for artistic effect to assist in the process of developing an image for printing onto media etc. Much as one might see an article in a newspaper or magazine and cut (crop) the article of interest from the whole sheet.

Not sure that one should be resampling within the crop tool. Export or Resize Document should be for resampling. I have up to version 1.6 used Export to JPG with down-sampling to 1600 width for digital projection. Maximum pixel dimensions in width 1600 and max pixel dimension in height 1200. At 300 DPI. Seems a duplication to do that in a crop. The reason I thought that the Absolute Size crop tool was a Aspect ratio was that when opening an original uncropped .afphoto camera image in the Absolute mode and using the grab handles in the corners or sides then the crop grid remains constant to the original image ratio (1:1.51). The troubling problem is that no matter what size one drags the box down to the pixel dimensions and inches dimensions do not change. The Crop box can be dragged down but the size information does not change. Click to accept and the original size is the new cropped image size. But change the dimensions (say inches) then the crop box on screen changes in size, but then grab the corners and the crop box goes back to the original edge and size but no dimensional changes are indicated in the menu bar. Regardless of what unit lengths I put into the dialogue menu the ratio of the Absolute size does not change in comparison to the original 1:1.51 image size. The only way that I can get the crop I want is to use the Absolute Size crop tool twice. Original image is 4950px by 3284px (1:1.51) 16.5in by 10.95in. Change dimension in height to say 10in and click Accept. Then reopen the crop tool and go to Absolute size and then set the width to say 14in. The grid goes outside of the image in height, but can grab the corner handles and pull the grid diagonally back to the top and bottom edge of the image and hopefully will have an image at 14in wide by 10in high. But why does one have to do this in two separate operations? It is a long winded way of working and would be quite tedious when working lots of images. (batch process??). Only Unconstrained shows the changes in the pixel grid but alternative unit lengths are greyed out, so it is not as useful for sizing an image in Freeform using either mm, cm or inches. I can click from Absolute Size to Unconstrained and Unconstrained will show the changes but only in pixels, while Absolute does not regardless of what size one makes the crop box unless one edits an image using the crop tool twice as indicated above. Absolute Size will not show the changes to dimensions when the crop box is dragged considerably smaller than the original image size. Click to Unconstrained and the new pixel dimensions are shown but no other units are available.

On reflection over the last week have done a search through other software and their respective cropping methods, could I make a suggestion that the Absolute Size be changed to something like - "Preserve Aspect ratio". That is basically what the Absolute size is actually doing in version 1.7 both in the Develop personae and Photo Personae. Change Unconstrained to something like "Freeform" but unlock the alternative sizes to allow any size cropping in pixels, centimetres, millimetres, inches and any other dimension type. Link the DPI (ppi) in Unconstrained (Freeform) to the Resize Document so one can chose the required DPI (ppi) in the Document resize and the DPI (ppi) is shown in the Unconstrained (Freeform) as reference value only. The DPI (ppi) should not be allowed to change in the cropping tool.

I personally think that the Absolute size crop tool is resampling the image rather than resizing the image. The pixel quantity is changing either up or down on the DPI change. But there is no algorithm (such as Nearest neighbour, Linear, Bicubic, Lanczos) available to smooth out the change if one accepts (Apply) the crop made. Resampling means that one is changing the number of pixels in an image. Downsampling is reducing the number of pixels for e-mail, web, or for display devices. Upsampling is were there is not sufficient pixels in an image to print at a size one requires, this is rare now that camera sensor resolutions are high at above 16Mpixels and can easily achieve larger prints without the need to Upsample the pixels, by adding more pixels than in the original image. Resizing vs resampling an image.pdf

The third action with the Absolute size crop tool is producing a cropping grid outside of the image size. Image claimed to be 3000px by 3000px at 300 DPI and 10in by 10in. Switching to the Unconstrained mode indicates 4500px by 4500px. This crop grid is some 750px greater top and bottom of the image in Absolute size mode. One can then click on the corner grips in Absolute size mode and pull the corners in until one places the grid to the edge of the image to get a 3000px by 3000px selection. If one then decides to change the DPI to say 260, then this must be done by clicking the pixel button before entering the new DPI value. On clicking on the inches button the display will show 11.24in by 11.24in but if one changes one's mind and decides to revert back to 300 DPI then the pixel count will begin to change. (Resampling). Before changing the DPI to any value, one must click the pixel button and have pixels displayed before changing the DPI. If the Inches are displayed then any change of the DPI will result in pixel resampling rather than image resizing. The only option to escape this is to click in Edit and undo the action or if in a complete mess cancel the whole crop operation and start over again.

Second part is same image but comes into Affinity Photo 1.7.404 for Windows at the same 4500px by 3000px. Set crop tool to Absolute Size and image size is 46.88in by 31.25in at 96 DPI and crop of 4500px by 3000px. Change DPI to 300 and the image size in inches remains the same but the crop has changed to 14062px by 9375px. This action is to resample by changing the pixel dimensions of a photo and this should only be done in the Export personae. Resampling is irreversible and can damage a photo. It should be resizing the image from 46.88in by 31.25in at 96 DPI to 15in by 10in at 300 DPI. The similar actions are also occurring in 1.7.2.424(Beta) in which I have used the same example but in a different way.

In reply to Mark Ingram I am going to do a reply in two parts to attempt to illustrate the resampling of pixels in the Absolute Size Crop Tool function. Have sized an image to 4500 px by 3000px to easily show the pixel number changes more easily. First image set as 15in by 10in at 300 DPI with pixel crop 4500px by 3000px. Second image 15in by 10in at 50 DPI with pixel crop now at 750px by 500px. Third image at 15in by 10in and a large DPI of 3000 and pixel crop now 45000px by 30000px. This is action for changing only the DPI when a dimension such as inches is selected. Does not happen when only pixels are selected.

Thanks Mark for the feedback on the resize issues. Have been researching the option of getting an alternative photo editing solution to avoid future problems. I regularly go to a web site called [lifeafterphotoshop.com] by Rod Lawton. Despite the title it does include items on Photoshop and Lightroom. There was an offer through the web site (running until 31st July) for ON1 PhotoRaw 2019. I initially tried this software over two years ago but decided as Serif was a British company with it's base in the UK that I would run with Affinity Photo rather than another US site. The life after photoshop web site has recently added a photo A-Z in which Serif and Affinity Photo get mentioned. The web site has a list of the top ten photo editing software and Affinity Photo is at number eight in the list. The photo A-Z has a definition for Cropping, Resampling, Resizing and Resolution that might be worth a look at. Hoping that the Document Resizing has been sorted along with the Absolute size Crop tool that is also re-sampling rather than resizing. Changing the DPI settings in the Absolute size crop repeatedly changing the ppi then starts to re-sample the pixel quantities only making the quantity of pixels smaller and bigger but does not change the dimension of the image.