CedarHouse

Hi Mark. As referenced in the above posts it would be nice to use the Unconstrained crop option but it is in pixels only. There are no other dimension units available. Want to crop images to a specific size (or the closest size that can be achieved) for printing onto paper media. Attached an edited image each image was cropped and sized to the same exact size, pasted and spaced on a canvas for a 16in by 12in paper media. PAGBMastersofPrint.pdf

Not sure that one should be resampling within the crop tool. Export or Resize Document should be for resampling. I have up to version 1.6 used Export to JPG with down-sampling to 1600 width for digital projection. Maximum pixel dimensions in width 1600 and max pixel dimension in height 1200. At 300 DPI. Seems a duplication to do that in a crop. The reason I thought that the Absolute Size crop tool was a Aspect ratio was that when opening an original uncropped .afphoto camera image in the Absolute mode and using the grab handles in the corners or sides then the crop grid remains constant to the original image ratio (1:1.51). The troubling problem is that no matter what size one drags the box down to the pixel dimensions and inches dimensions do not change. The Crop box can be dragged down but the size information does not change. Click to accept and the original size is the new cropped image size. But change the dimensions (say inches) then the crop box on screen changes in size, but then grab the corners and the crop box goes back to the original edge and size but no dimensional changes are indicated in the menu bar. Regardless of what unit lengths I put into the dialogue menu the ratio of the Absolute size does not change in comparison to the original 1:1.51 image size. The only way that I can get the crop I want is to use the Absolute Size crop tool twice. Original image is 4950px by 3284px (1:1.51) 16.5in by 10.95in. Change dimension in height to say 10in and click Accept. Then reopen the crop tool and go to Absolute size and then set the width to say 14in. The grid goes outside of the image in height, but can grab the corner handles and pull the grid diagonally back to the top and bottom edge of the image and hopefully will have an image at 14in wide by 10in high. But why does one have to do this in two separate operations? It is a long winded way of working and would be quite tedious when working lots of images. (batch process??). Only Unconstrained shows the changes in the pixel grid but alternative unit lengths are greyed out, so it is not as useful for sizing an image in Freeform using either mm, cm or inches. I can click from Absolute Size to Unconstrained and Unconstrained will show the changes but only in pixels, while Absolute does not regardless of what size one makes the crop box unless one edits an image using the crop tool twice as indicated above. Absolute Size will not show the changes to dimensions when the crop box is dragged considerably smaller than the original image size. Click to Unconstrained and the new pixel dimensions are shown but no other units are available.

On reflection over the last week have done a search through other software and their respective cropping methods, could I make a suggestion that the Absolute Size be changed to something like - "Preserve Aspect ratio". That is basically what the Absolute size is actually doing in version 1.7 both in the Develop personae and Photo Personae. Change Unconstrained to something like "Freeform" but unlock the alternative sizes to allow any size cropping in pixels, centimetres, millimetres, inches and any other dimension type. Link the DPI (ppi) in Unconstrained (Freeform) to the Resize Document so one can chose the required DPI (ppi) in the Document resize and the DPI (ppi) is shown in the Unconstrained (Freeform) as reference value only. The DPI (ppi) should not be allowed to change in the cropping tool.

I personally think that the Absolute size crop tool is resampling the image rather than resizing the image. The pixel quantity is changing either up or down on the DPI change. But there is no algorithm (such as Nearest neighbour, Linear, Bicubic, Lanczos) available to smooth out the change if one accepts (Apply) the crop made. Resampling means that one is changing the number of pixels in an image. Downsampling is reducing the number of pixels for e-mail, web, or for display devices. Upsampling is were there is not sufficient pixels in an image to print at a size one requires, this is rare now that camera sensor resolutions are high at above 16Mpixels and can easily achieve larger prints without the need to Upsample the pixels, by adding more pixels than in the original image. Resizing vs resampling an image.pdf

The third action with the Absolute size crop tool is producing a cropping grid outside of the image size. Image claimed to be 3000px by 3000px at 300 DPI and 10in by 10in. Switching to the Unconstrained mode indicates 4500px by 4500px. This crop grid is some 750px greater top and bottom of the image in Absolute size mode. One can then click on the corner grips in Absolute size mode and pull the corners in until one places the grid to the edge of the image to get a 3000px by 3000px selection. If one then decides to change the DPI to say 260, then this must be done by clicking the pixel button before entering the new DPI value. On clicking on the inches button the display will show 11.24in by 11.24in but if one changes one's mind and decides to revert back to 300 DPI then the pixel count will begin to change. (Resampling). Before changing the DPI to any value, one must click the pixel button and have pixels displayed before changing the DPI. If the Inches are displayed then any change of the DPI will result in pixel resampling rather than image resizing. The only option to escape this is to click in Edit and undo the action or if in a complete mess cancel the whole crop operation and start over again.

Second part is same image but comes into Affinity Photo 1.7.404 for Windows at the same 4500px by 3000px. Set crop tool to Absolute Size and image size is 46.88in by 31.25in at 96 DPI and crop of 4500px by 3000px. Change DPI to 300 and the image size in inches remains the same but the crop has changed to 14062px by 9375px. This action is to resample by changing the pixel dimensions of a photo and this should only be done in the Export personae. Resampling is irreversible and can damage a photo. It should be resizing the image from 46.88in by 31.25in at 96 DPI to 15in by 10in at 300 DPI. The similar actions are also occurring in 1.7.2.424(Beta) in which I have used the same example but in a different way.

In reply to Mark Ingram I am going to do a reply in two parts to attempt to illustrate the resampling of pixels in the Absolute Size Crop Tool function. Have sized an image to 4500 px by 3000px to easily show the pixel number changes more easily. First image set as 15in by 10in at 300 DPI with pixel crop 4500px by 3000px. Second image 15in by 10in at 50 DPI with pixel crop now at 750px by 500px. Third image at 15in by 10in and a large DPI of 3000 and pixel crop now 45000px by 30000px. This is action for changing only the DPI when a dimension such as inches is selected. Does not happen when only pixels are selected.

Thanks Mark for the feedback on the resize issues. Have been researching the option of getting an alternative photo editing solution to avoid future problems. I regularly go to a web site called [lifeafterphotoshop.com] by Rod Lawton. Despite the title it does include items on Photoshop and Lightroom. There was an offer through the web site (running until 31st July) for ON1 PhotoRaw 2019. I initially tried this software over two years ago but decided as Serif was a British company with it's base in the UK that I would run with Affinity Photo rather than another US site. The life after photoshop web site has recently added a photo A-Z in which Serif and Affinity Photo get mentioned. The web site has a list of the top ten photo editing software and Affinity Photo is at number eight in the list. The photo A-Z has a definition for Cropping, Resampling, Resizing and Resolution that might be worth a look at. Hoping that the Document Resizing has been sorted along with the Absolute size Crop tool that is also re-sampling rather than resizing. Changing the DPI settings in the Absolute size crop repeatedly changing the ppi then starts to re-sample the pixel quantities only making the quantity of pixels smaller and bigger but does not change the dimension of the image.

This post from ZeroZero has ben logged in the Beta forum for windows where I have recorded the same re-sampling issue with the crop tool and the less than proper behaviour of the Absolute Size cropping tool. Have posted screen grabs of examples of the difference between the Unconstrained and Absolute size in 4 images. Started with an image in Unconstrained and sized in a ratio 1:1 at 3000px by 3000px. (Can only manually calculate the actual size in inches). So without clicking the Apply button go straight to Absolute Size as this has other size options but my 1:1 image at 3000px by 3000px is no longer a square format image but has been resized to a rectangular image of no known size as the display is still showing the original pixel dimensions. Return to Unconstrained and now no longer have a 1:1 image but a rectangular image only at different pixel dimensions in the vertical height. The last FIVE images are the same image inserted into Absolute Size at it's full pixel size and using inches, as one can do this only in Absolute Size, but as I change the DPI the images are being re-sampled rather than being resized. Only the pixel quantities are being changed which I have always considered to be re-sampling an image. Absolute size worked well in an odd way all the way up to 1.6 for preparing images for printing but have lost faith in the function in 1.7 as I know longer trust 1.7 to deliver. Fortunately I can use 1.6 until 1.7 is sorted out. I am now just watching for changes via the Beta version. 1.7.2.424. Affinity Photo for Windows. Sort of sorted a solution for 1.7 when bringing an image into Absolute Size by only adjusting the height of an image and then clicking Apply. Then come back in with the Crop Tool selection and back to Absolute size and adjust for the width. In adjusting the width (in inches) the crop grid increases in height beyond the image area both top and bottom and then use the grab locations at the corners of the crop grid to pull back down or up to the edges of the image, top and bottom. A very clumsy method of working that for anyone cropping or adjusting a large quantity of images could potentially find very tedious. I like to crop according to personal preference in either 1:1 or as a letterbox rather than to any preset ratio that the Absolute Size is using in 1.7. The current version of Absolute size appears to be preserving the original camera ratio though I have thought that some other ratio may be being used. This makes the Absolute crop tool unworkable for me and there is no link in size created in Absolute Size crop and the Document Resize so have no idea what image I am ending up with.

Sadly when looking through the list of Resolved Photo Bugs there is a section regarding this from June. And now it is closed "by design". The analogy to the comment "by design" is that our lines are drawn and we have dug our trenches, put in our sandbags and erected the barbed wire and we going to stand our ground. Occasionally we make up an investigation party up to see what is beyond our lines but we will not be moving forward any time soon. Stalemate. A little like the First World War. Took new ideas and new techniques with very different leaders to break the stalemate and begin to turn the tide.

Hi MEB, Thanks for the reply and the news regarding the Resize Document and possibly the cropping using Absolute size which worked well for me in 1.6 but now does not perform in 1.7. One needs to have a look at a tutorial web site (Photoshop) called [photoessentials.com] . Go to Home> Photoshop Basics > Chapter 5 - Lesson 01 - Pixels. Image Size and Image Resolution in Photoshop. Lesson 03 and Lesson 05 is well worth a read. Chapter 06 is relevant - How to Crop Images in Photoshop - 8 Lessons. There is nothing similar for Affinity Photo as far as I know. But I would have expected that Affinity Photo for Windows would share most, if not all, but at least some of the features of Photoshop. resolution and pixels.pdf Digital Images.pdf

The Resize Document should not operate on the pixels when the Resample box is unchecked. The image resizing should only occur when the intention is to resize an image to different pixel quantities and resampling box checked. Similarly if one has an image at 3000px by 3000px at 50 DPI then the image should be 60inch by 60inch when the Resample box is unchecked. The same image could go into the crop tool Absolute Size and be shown as 60inch by 60inch and the DPI showing 50 with the crop 3000px by 3000px to the right of the DPI box. What one does not want, which what is happening with version 1.7, is that when clicking into the DPI Box and changing the 50 to 300, that the pixels on the right for Crop goes to 18000px by 18000px. What should be happening is that the dimensions to the left should reduce to 10inch by 10inch at a DPI of 300 and Crop of 3000px by 3000px.

There is an error in basic mathematics with the current resize document menu item. The image size in pixels should not be changing. The divisor used to determine the sizes of an image at different DPI's is also acting on the pixels of the image and this should not be happening. If one choses to have an image of 3000px by 3000px at a DPI of 300 px per inch. Then the image size should be 10inch by 10inch. Using the Resize Document and changing the DPI to 150 px per inch. Should change the image dimension to 20inch by 20inch. It does this when the resample box is unticked and if the inches are selected the greyed out box shows the dimensions as 20inch by 20inch. But if pixels are shown and the DPI is 150 px per inch then the image pixel size is 1500px by 1500px and still 10inch by 10inch. But actually the original image size of 3000px by 3000px should not be divided by 2. The image size in pixels should always remain the same size because that is what the user has chosen to do. At every stage down the DPI from 300px per inch down to 50px per inch the pixel size keeps reducing, where in fact the image size in inches should be increasing, but does not. At a DPI of 50px per inch the picture size at 3000px by 3000px should be 60inch by 60inch but the Resize Document sizes it at 500px by 500px and 10inch by 10inch, when the image should actually be 3000px by 3000px. The dividing factor being used is also acting on the pixels of the original image. The pixels themselves are not really units, they are picture elements of no size. The DPI or PPI is the only value that is a unit of length and determines how many picture elements there are to of unit of measure. This has been un-corrected for a while now. Maybe this is why the Absolute size crop tool does not function properly.

Thanks for the support information it is much appreciated. I have learned a lot about Affinity Photo via the forum discussions. Pretty well everyone on this forum are extremely helpful to others and is much valued. Many forums seem to degenerate into a moaning and complaints forum that does not happen (rarely) on this forum. Everyone has their own take on how they use their images. I find it difficult to work in pixel units. Prefer to work in millimetres or inches to size images. Current changes in version 1.7 to image cropping sizes did not appear to matter for rectangular images but becomes more pronounced for a 1:1 ratio of rectangular image. I am generally following the sizing of images using A3 paper or 16 inch by 12inch paper for printing at 300 DPI. in accordance with the Masters of Print Competition Rules by the PAGB (Photographic Alliance of Great Britain). Website PAGBuk/Competitions. Part/Section 2.4. Do not always follow the dimensions as I sometimes vary how I want to display the image on either A3 or 16inch by 12inch for effect. Mostly working in printed media rather than web images. PAGBMastersofPrint.pdf

Took a little while since last post to produce a cropped image examples using my cropping twice method. Crop for height ONLY and adjust crop grid to remove the bottom of the tree trunks at the top of the image. Click Apply. Then click on Crop tool again and edit for the height. Crop grid increases in height so grab the handles and move grid to top and bottom edge. Absolute Size is 10inch by 10inch (3000px by 3000px) and Unconstrained is now also the same.